Infiltrators

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Hereyagoboom, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Hereyagoboom

    Not gonna lie I hate em. Mainly because I'm a terrible infiltrator and I hate being killed by them. I did have a thought. If the infiltrator is playing a sniper and he can headshot you from a long distance, why does he need cloak. I would like to be able to return fire before they disappear Personally I think infiltrators should be in your face cloaked (wow rogue) and snipers (WoW M&M hunter) not cloaked. Not that they'll ever change just wanted to see what Y'all think.
  2. LordKrelas

    So he can fire a second round, actually get into position, and not be completely dead if someone actually goes to engage them.
    Given if anyone closes the distance, let alone a vehicle, that infiltrator is basically dead.
    And if they fired their sniper rifle, without cloak, they have no time or ability to line up a shot, as they are entirely visible to counter-fire.
    Since a sniper-rifle needs the user to be mostly stand-still, this means, the Sniper will be dead after a single-round, or never able to re-position without it being near suicide.

    As well, only select bolt-actions have the range to be resistant or hard-shots for non-sniper return-fire.
    Dooming every other Sniper, to be screwed heavily.

    So, it would basically kill the entire practicality of a sniper rifle, unless you were a CQC Perfect-dead-Eye.
    As the moment you open fire, you will never have time to line another shot, nor reposition without being killed.
  3. Hereyagoboom

    My bad guys should have posted this in class discussion. Sorry.
  4. adamts01

    No, this is the right place for everything. Those other areas are dead.

    As for long range Infiltrators, they're rarely that much of an impact on battles. So don't worry about counter sniping, just ignore them and get to the part of the fight that matters.

    If you do want to counter snipe, the new battle rifles are incredible. They're perfectly accurate at range when aiming down sights and side stepping. It's 3 body shots to kill any sniper at any range. These are also a great choice for medium/long range infils if you're not good at head shots.

    Sometimes you do have to cross sniper fire to get to where you're going. Obviously don't run in a straight line, but also remember you run faster with a knife equipped.
    • Up x 2
  5. DarkStarAnubis

    It is a game design issue mostly, consider the following:

    (1) Indoor: buildings are Lego-brick style with big opening always in the same places (since there are no "unique" buildings, all are made by mixing a set of predefined blueprints), so snipers have no real way to fight from inside a building. In comparison, have a look at documentaries about snipers in the Iraq and Yugoslavia conflicts, snipers made holes in the building walls to operate

    (2) Outdoor: vegetation is scarce and foliage can be turned off, so except very rare cases, a sniper has no place to hide outside.

    (3) Camouflage is not modeled in the game. Look for "ghillie suit" to see what camouflage really means. In the game, snipers have lumi-fiber elements on the suit, marking them even in the dark...

    (4) All firearms leave big, glowing tracers. After firing, a sniper can be detected immediately. I often see snipers spending minutes to go on some high place outside, then decide to take a single shot (maybe even not killing the target) and be counter-sniped on the spot by someone waiting serenely in the spawn room sipping coffee.

    Shortly, snipers need the cloak to survive since they can't hide otherwise - I would also be in favor of removing the cloak if snipers could play more tactically: have real camo and real places to hide.
    • Up x 5
  6. adamts01

    Squad is the single multiplayer shooter to get this close. They still don't have ideal levels of vegetation, but snipers can actually properly function with the vegetation they do offer.

    They could possibly do something in PS2 with an adaptive camouflage with a ghillie suit type of figure distorting effect. Maybe let adaptive camo be always on and the ghillie effect cutting movement speed in half with an unlimited duration. That could replace Hunter cloak, as Stalkers can't carry rifles and Nano fills the CQB role well. The trick would be getting it to work with potato settings. Squad simply doesn't let you run the game if your PC can't handle it. The spotting feature should also be removed regardless of any cloak changes. They could simply call out a direction when you spot someone, like in Arma.

    I freakin love those two games, but neither matches the big battles PS2 offers. I'm moving back to the States in a couple months and will probably switch to Squad once those servers are available to me. But both those games, it's just an awesome feeling hearing the crack of bullets fly by from a suppressed weapon, and not knowing exactly where the shooter is. It's so much better than doing the chicken dance like in PS2 and spotting the tracers. This game is dumbed down to such a stupid level.
    • Up x 1
  7. Hegeteus

    Sometimes when I get killed by a sniper, I can get really angry for a short moment. Truth is though, that there are very many ways to deal with snipers and the best way to do that is to just have more patience than them and for example ambush them as a stalker cloaker.

    Another matter is, that they're rarely relevant for objectives anyway. If we'd counter snipers somehow, we'll just stomp on some players' fun without truly affecting the game. I don't enjoy some things, but I'd feel selfish to **** them just because they cause me occasional frustration.
  8. Gustavo M

    Infiltrator is the only class in the game that can control the "element of surprise" (by cloaking), can exploit clientside (because of cloaking) and also has guns able to instagib, so...
    "b-but sniping takes skill!". Like waiting until your target is attacking someone else (while cloaked) something hard (and complicated) to do.
    "b-but everyone can see you while cloaked!". If you are running on someone @ D range -- then yes, everyone will be able to notice you cloaked. Which is what bad infs do.
    "Don't stand still!". I've lost count of the number of times a low BR sniper inf popped my head out -- while I was moving. "Well, then don't go in a straight line!". Pham, I'm not gonna do the orion shuffle 24/7 because of some nerd sitting on top of a hill @ one hex away from where I'm at.
  9. adamts01

    That's planetside 101. It's lame, but not constantly moving would get you killed even if there weren't snipers.

    This is false. Ambusher C4 can clear a room as they render. Pump actions can OHK you before you see them round the corner. It's all lame, but part of the price we pay to have so many players on so few servers.
    • Up x 1
  10. The Shady Engineer

    I never understood the decision of giving the invisible class and only the invisible class one-hit-kill long range weaponry. Either remove cloak from infiltrators with bolt rifles or make sniper rifles common pool. Until then pulling a class other than infiltrator for infantry field fights is pointless.

    The new batch of battle rifles helped non-cloakers a bit but their TTK is still too long so they only work against newbie infiltrators. An experienced bolter will pop cloak and nope the hell out of there as soon as the first shot from the battle rifle hits him, only to reappear a second later and kill the other a guy with a one hit headshot before rendering on his screen.
  11. Gustavo M

    "Infiltrators being the only class in the game forcing you to move erratically constantly is fine and you should deal with it." Uhhhh....no. Try again.
    "This is false because of a LA skill". Nice logic.
    You want to make the game a constant one hit wonder ****fest and kill it? Because that is how PS2 will "truly die" if snipers becomes a common pool weapon.
  12. pnkdth

    Little known fact, the cloak becomes less visible for every QQ thread or reply/ragequit/rage message. One of those passive abilities few are aware of. Meanwhile us infiltrator will accept any and all saltiness since it can be distilled into the very sought after Auraxian Salt which is perfect for the gourmet planetman. Bon appetite.

    Seriously though, DarkStarAnubis nailed it.
    • Up x 2
  13. Gustavo M

    "HAHA better get in the thread and call everyone a whiner!That'll show em!". Nah... more like, you will make folks think that you are (another) infiltrator main who is scared of getting his favorite toy removed from the game.
  14. The Shady Engineer

    Shotguns are no less obnoxious to fight against, have been common pool for a while and the game is still very much alive.

    Keeping sniper rifles infiltrator exclusive would be the same as having shotguns be heavy or light assault exclusive.
  15. Gustavo M

    A pump-action shotgun that can oneshot even in very long ranges*, you mean. Because theoretically -- that is what snipers are.
  16. frozen north

    Considering that sniping is one of the least efficient ways to earn certs, there's a reason i don't do it much. Don't get me wrong. I like to snipe. But I don't like doing it constantly, since it means shelving earnings quite heavily.
    • Up x 2
  17. pnkdth


    Great way to get "vanity stats" though, i.e. pad dat MLG ready KDR. That said, anyone who bother looking a bit closer is going to figure it out.
  18. That_One_Kane_Guy

    The Light Assault class would like a word. Element of surprise? The high ground is the best ambush position, players never look up. Sensor Shield and Suppressor makes it even better. Clientside shenanigans? Ambusher Jump Jets. Instagib weapons? Shotguns. Add nightmare if you want even more silliness. Not to mention C4 if you want to delete MAXs or tanks.
    It is 100% possible for a player to engage in a gunfight with another player and remain quite well protected against most snipers. Most veteran players perform some form of strafe dance when engaging in a gunfight even at medium range. Hitting people while they are doing this requires both positioning yourself closely enough to the fight that your target's random movements effect on your aim are minimized and good aim and ability to predict your target's movements.
    I would associate both of these with skill.

    Snipers that only shoot stationary players are not very effective, and it is mostly a case of bad players killing bad players.
    I will say that bad (read: useless) infils are the ones that sit on a hill 300m away from a fight picking stationary targets only. The ones close enough to be seen through the cloak are more often than not far more dangerous.
    Lucky shots can and do happen (the deadliest snipers in the game are BR6 NC with Bolt Drivers), but unlucky deaths happen so often and from so many sources in this game that you can hardly complain about snipers over everything else.

    At ~100m your shots have about 120-130ms of travel time, which isn't much but often enough that random movements can and do throw off perfectly good shots. Players at maximum range have almost a half a second delay from shot to hit. Random movements every half-second or so are neither strenuous nor challenging, and if you can't be bothered to attempt them you cannot really complain.
    • Up x 4
  19. LordKrelas

    Long-range Weaponry that requires the user to be mostly static, and has issues up close.
    The cloak allows them to position themselves to take the shot, and allows them to take another shot.
    Without the cloak, the first round fires has caused them to be spotted, have no time to acquire another target nor aim without being shot in the head.
    Add in the vulnerability when engaged by other weapons that can reach, or the gap has been closed, the cloak allows the infiltrator a chance to escape or combat, without being massacred.
    As the infiltrator isn't going to reliably scratch any vehicle, an LA will cleanse its soul, and the list goes on & on.

    An Infiltrator in an open field, unless outside your retaliation range, is easily mulched.
    If Bolts were on LA's, you'd have more dynamic spots to deal with, but would murder them quickly, as they would announce themselves with their first round & have no-where to go.
    If on an Heavy-Assault, you'd be dealing with the problems of a Heavy's Shield, that can bolt you, but it won't get a second round either.


    As the infiltrator will lose the exchange if they stay there, ofc the Infiltrator re-positions & fires.
    Much like an Engineer knows a Heavy-Assault in the LMG's sweet spot with full-shield, is an incredibly bad idea from the front.


    It's more like C-4, without the killing power.
    The LA is the only practical user, the rest are incapable of actually using it to the full extent.

    Imagine those situations, where your targeted bolt-action Infiltrator didn't cloak.
    Now realize, in each of those situations, You'd have murdered that infiltrator hands-down without a single problem, and nothing that infiltrator could do about it.

    Imagine the behavior of Infiltrators with lower-range Sniper rifles (they exist)
    Without cloak, what do they have, to help them use their weapons at all?
    They're in firing range of every weapon, quite a few of them need double-taps, they have massive tracers, sounds, and without the cloak, are entirely visible while re-positioning & when aiming.
    The Sniper is most the static target when aiming, as they have to be.
    Without the cloak, they don't have time to aim, as the counter-shot will be quicker - and if any other class was in firing-range, they'd be nailed & flinched before they could fire.

    Sniper rifles aren't without weaknesses, and given the Infiltrator class is based around quite literally first-strike advantage, and the time needed to operate these rifles, the cloak is the only reason you ever see a Sniper fire twice.
    • Up x 1
  20. iller

    Rly?
    R L Y ?

    ...the SNIPER varient is the one giving you problems? ... B/c it's the SMG toters who actually skew the Skill-Floor a bit too low. ... not to Mention that real long range Sniping doesn't even work consistently for the cheaters who try to lagswitch or aimbot. ...so if someone out there is being a really consistent Sniper, pinning you down, and getting 50% HS ratio or better? .... ... then they're just really really good at an INCREDIBLY NICHE talent that often doesn't translate to any other part of the game

    One thing that I'm pretty well set up for to go after field snipers who are hiding behind a Zerg, is Commissioner + Stalker cloak. If you've 3 to 5 minutes to kill just to settle a grudge or get un-dominated, then there's no shame in blowing a bunch of ISO on upgraded crouch-walk implant and a bit of Stalker upgrades. ...don't give them any kind of warning by putting a Radar dart in that area. And since Infiltrators have less health than anyone else, the stupid Shoot-Knifing cheese attack still works fine against them if you get up right behind and open with a headshot.

    Or you could just be an admitted Baddy like all the other ****** infiltrators I guess and get the SMG