I understand why people have reservations - if all the hard part was in getting up to the vehicle, like the other short-range classes, then we would have a fair advantage over the others (although, engineer + flash + turbo works very very well). Arguably, LA also have this advantage (or did, if the jetpack sound change goes through) and people dislike that they can't react to it and feel they must have eyes in the back of their head. Now arguably, this is a team game, so it would make sense that you alone are not meant to be invulnerable to sneak attacks - but people can't seem to understand this so it gets lost in the wind. The counter to this argument that many infiltrators are proposing is to make the hard work happen once we get there and lose our cloak while taking action. If the action is too short and not that obvious then people will feel it is too difficult to defend against. However, if the action is too long and is too obvious then infiltrators get the short end of the stick instead (although it would be infinitely larger than what we currently get when there are no AV turrets around). There are multiple ways of doing this, ranging from the very short but very obvious (so some sort of blaring beacon going off as it occurs), to the very long and very unobvious (so allowing it while cloaked, with a longer cloak). Planetside 1 did the latter, and it was balanced as well as feeling infiltrator-like. Planetside 2 could do either, or a mix; say a 10 second hack, driver gets mild static display if in aim-mode, infiltrator has to be uncloaked. Edit: Dr. Euthanasia got a post in before me that I would like to agree with. This really comes back to the fact that this is a team game and thus it would be ridiculous to balance this around just the driver and the infiltrator. In many situations when infantry destroy vehicles in this game the driver IS surprised - its his or her team mates that are meant to be making this difficult, not that the surprise attack is meant to be weak. People are arguing about the possibility of an infiltrator having avoided the rest of the enemy force, got up to the tank, then avoided detection by the rest of the enemy force while hacking uncloaked, avoided detection by the driver and any radar he may have, and then people want the hack to make the controls go wonky or something. If this was any other class that tank would be DEAD for the enemy having failed at all that. In addition, other classes can double up to make the vehicle destruction faster and easier - two engineers on flashes are harder to stop than one, two heavies shooting rockets do more damage in the same time than one, etc. Infiltrators hacking would be unable to do this; besides having to remain undetected to work at all (which is harder with two people), there is no way for the second infiltrator to speed up the hack of the second and is thus of no help. Another reason hacking would be less useful than everything everyone else gets.
In contrast, the Infiltrator has its clearly defined task. Otherwise will probably call next all for a sniper rifle or scanning probes. And can the team work, man stop here not simply be stubborn thing go, man must sometimes the classes and vehicles move flexibly to any situation to react. (google translator)
This man has a difficult time understanding, however this man shall attempt to answer. Give the man three names... wait, wrong answer. The problem with what you are saying is that it implies that the vehicle destruction role is also clearly defined - it by far is not. Every class and vehicle is capable of destroying vehicles, all except us. Interesting idea of defined role there.
I want Boobie traps! All teh boobies will belong to me, the sneaky voyeur infiltrator. This is definitely the option I want.
I'm convinced that any kind of anti-vehicle ability, be it mine, C4, hacking, ANYTHING would be extremely OP in the hands of someone who has the ability to move around the battlefield cloaked. The ability to sneak up on enemy vehicles and then do extreme (killing? hacking= killing for those who you'd be taking it away from) damage, without them really getting a good chance to find you since you are cloaked would ruin the game in all kinds of ways. I think SOE did a good thing by not giving that ability to Infiltrators. If they really want a vehicle killing method, go hack a terminal and pull a freakin vehicle. MAYBE I'd be OK with some kind of grenade that did a little damage, or possibly shut down enemy vehicles for 3-5 seconds. Anything more, would again, be super OP in the hands of someone with a cloaking device.
I take it you didn't read any of the other posts here? We've been discussing the 'Infs have cloak so it would be OP' argument for a least five pages. For gods sake Aimeryan even addressed this concern five posts up on this page. TL;DR: Getting to the vehicle will arguably be easier for the Infiltrator than the other classes due to cloaking. Actually attacking the vehicle will be far more difficult for the Infiltrator than the other classes due to hacking taking an uninterrupted 15-20 seconds and requiring the Infiltrator be completely visible & relatively defenseless.
Indeed, it is quite irritating having to refute the same (il)logic over and over again as if they have something new to offer. If he just put a fore-note like "Sorry, didn't read all the posts, has anyone already addressed this issue of us using cloak to get to the target?", I would then give him slack for the rest of his post and respond with "Yup, page x, y, z - brief summary as follows:". However, just saying something would be imbalanced because of xyz and ignoring the last 12 pages of refuting just that is like hitting your head against a brick wall.
Now you guys know what I have to put up with every time I try to stand up for anything regarding this class.
The problem is: - Infiltrator class has other features that IMO balance out its inability to directly combat vehicles. - This is not an arbitrary restriction. Its important in the context of overall balance. - Infiltrators already have a limited ability to destroy vehicles. Re: Having a hand in killing the most important target: Sunderer. - If i hack a turret, with proper timing I can kill a sunderer as soon as it leaves the base. Neutralised the threat before it became one. I agree its limited but still valid. Still makes someone spend their vehicle points on it. - If I can hack a terminal, I can spawn engineer kill sundie, switch pack to infiltrator. I already do this very regularly. Is it limited? Yes. Should it be? Yes.
Easy to say, hard to prove. Give examples and we can talk. When everyone else and their dog can do this you got to believe it is damn well arbitrary. Again, give examples of why that is important and we can talk. Situational. It is not even like we can set these situations up - they are purely possible or impossible. In additional, who with a modicum of intelligence would deploy a sunderer in the firing arc of a turret (and a working one at that)? When the most valuable target on the field is outside our possibility to even affect you have a problem. If I go into an enemy base and everyone ignores me while I shoot at them point-blank in the face I can be a God. Fantasy aside, you don't balance a game on this. So the solution is to switch to another class because this one can't get the job done like everyone else? Hope the vehicle waits around while I go do that; would be ungentleman-like otherwise. Why on Earth is it so painful trying to argue with these people? Can they not see that having one class being left out of the most important part of the game while all the other classes get at least one non-situational way to perform in that area (if not multiple) is a disgrace?
i dont know i guess that a percentage of the infiltrator community suffers from allucinations and another from an heavy elitist attitude i call it the "ztill syndrome"
Without implementing my idea of some sort of anti-material rifle (which costs infantry points for the special ammo), I think the best idea, thus far, is the slower version of the vehicle hack (like generator timer). The argument about hacking a terminal, switch to <insert class name here> is void. The Infiltrator, as a class, still cannot damage heavily armored vehicles. Yes, you can hack, and yes *other* classes can damage them, but the Infiltrator cannot. The other argument about hacking a turret is extremely situational. There is not a turret to hack at every base, and we do not live our lives assaulting bases that only have turrets. Yet, all other classes, regardless of base type, or situation, can damage heavy armor. The argument of playing/switching to another class if "you don't like that you can't damage them", is void (see two paragraphs up, second sentence). The argument stands; the Infiltrator as a class, has no personal way (C4, Rockets, AT Mines), of damaging heavy armor, yet all other classes can...and if you want to throw in the hack turret argument again... the turret is doing the damage, not the Infiltrator, and any class can jump into a turret
1. Max draw distance headshot kills, cloak, cloaking flashes, hacking terminals, hacking turrets.... Theres 5 things, 4 of which are impossible with any other class. 2. See 1. 3. Destroying the sunderers, tanks and damaging aircraft in transit on their way to being deployed is still a valuable ability. My killboard (Stinney) shows 5 vehicle kills 2 sunderers and 2 tanks, and an ESF, in a space of about 6 minutes. As an infiltrator, I dont think thats too bad. All 2 hexes deep into enemy territory, I eliminated a number of threats before they even get to fire a shot. 4. Thats pretty much what I did. Check my killboard and you can see that I racked up an 18 killstreak in about 10 minutes. Not bad either. 5. Well.....Yes. Thats it. Where is a deployed sunderer going to go? Its a small price to pay for being able to do all the other stuff you can do. Can any other class hack that turret? Why should the infiltrator be able to damage heavy armour directly? That really isnt what they're for. If you think it is, you are missing the point entirely. What you are essentially asking for is the cloak ability on a heavy assult. Why not ask for an "I WIN!" button? Either that or some of us have a grip on the Infiltrator class and what its for and the vast majority do not....
Engineers & Medics also have abilities that could preclude them from having the ability to damage ground vehicles - Infiltrators are no more powerful, unique, or useful than the Medic or Engineer. Having the ability to cloak & hack are not so innately powerful in comparison to healing, resurrection, repairs, & ammo that they balance not being able to reliably interact with the most important targets on the battlefield. Could you quit with the straw man & no true Scotsman routine? No one in this thread is asking for "cloaking ability on a Heavy Assault" or an "I WIN button", and the people that are asking for a reliable means to affect vehicles have a firm grip on the class. Please try to use legitimate means to refute the position and not these informal fallacies. They do nothing to contribute to our discussion.
1. None of those help with the situation under which vehicle destruction would be helpful, apart from the very situational turret hacking. They may make us good at other things (extremely arguable), but that doesn't make us balanced in this area. Namely, objective pushing and defending.For clarification; Sniping doesn't help with all the important stuff inside (including an engineer repairing a tank from cover or a medic reviving from cover). It doesn't help when people are able to survive being shot (nanoweave, anything other than a headshot) and can then be healed up. It doesn't help when people are killed but are ressed by a medic that is moving too erratically to kill within a few seconds. It doesn't help when a sunderer so very quickly respawns the person you just killed. Sniping in this game is mostly a K/D ratio padder, not much else. Don't get me started with the cloak. Briefly, it is useful for going to an unexpected place and causing confusion kills to pad out you K/D ratio. By its nature, it is not so good at assaulting or defending anything remotely useful. Cloaking flashes, I haven't played the game since their release, so no comment. Hacking terminals is so very unhelpful I would rather it was removed so that people stop waving it around like a magic wand that makes everything OK. At best, it does the same job any nearby sunderer can do, any squad beacon (just redeploy), arguably any nearby base as long as you are willing to use a flash or ESF to quickly get back. At worse, engineers provide the same utility via ammo packs (but they still get to destroy vehicles). Denying the enemy the terminal is not a consideration as anyone can do that by simply shooting the damn thing. Hacking turrets, ah the old situational 'this can be done, hence everything is fine'. You do not balance around something being situational! It inherently means you are going to have times where you can't do anything to help. 2. See 1. Note, other classes are also good at things other than vehicle destruction - you don't see them being arbitrarily denied. 3. You really need to look up the word situational. Additionally, anecdotal does not an argument make. 4. I'll just repeat myself for your benefit: you do not balance a game on this. 5. So once again, being able to do other stuff means you can't take part in the most important part of the game? Even when everyone else can do other stuff but can? Switching class WOULD make sense IF that was the way the game worked for everyone - but we are the only ones who suffer from this.
WOW. Just WOW. You go on about 'situational' this and situational that, but then say, "Oh an engineer ammo resupply, or sunderer can do that". As an infiltrator you dont have to have a nearby sunderer. Just a nearby terminal. And they are ALWAYS at an enemy base. I cannot begin to tell you how many sunderers I've killed by hacking a terminal, switching to engineer, dropping tank mines, and switching back to infiltrator. Or behind enemy lines needing an ammo refil where there are no friendly engineers, so I hack a terminal and resupply. From where I am, I can take our enemy engineers on AT turrets. A valauble assistance to an oncoming force looking to take a base. Problem is that medic and engineers have the ability to damage vehicles, and you want to address this by giving infiltrator the ability to damage vehicles? Why not argue in the engineer and medic forums that they're OP and they need to have that ability removed to bring them in line with infiltrator? I disagree. I got to an amp station or equivalent, 2 hexes deep, hack EVERYTHING, its ripe for taking. Hacking if used correctly can have a HUGE impact on objective pushing. If everything is hacked its way quicker to take a base. Flanking an enemy zerg and picking of engineers and medics is valuable defensive tactic. If anything the only thing I would add to the infiltrator class would be a laser marker (maybe in place of a recon dart) that other squad members with the proper weaponry could fire missiles guided by the laser targetter. Forces group play, makes infiltrators valuable squad members and gives some way to contribute to vehicle kills without being able to do so as a lone wolf.
Yeah, but you aren't. What if you have to defend a base or fight in the territory between two? No other class is undesirable in these circumstances, so why should ours be? Which is easier - buffing one class or nerfing two? Which is more likely to upset people? Which would require SOE to issue cert refunds to a large number of players? Drive a Sunderer up to the base, take out all of the generators and the SCU, park it inside. Congratulations, you've just accomplished 90% of the actions required to make a major facility vulnerable without even needing to touch the Infiltrator class. If it's a Bio Lab, you've accomplished 100% instead. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the turrets or terminals being under enemy control (if they're even undamaged when you arrive) are going to make even the slightest difference when your faction rolls up to claim their prize. Your team's Sunderers and tanks will roll right past the AV turrets and park inside the walls, and anyone with an AV weapon will shoot every manned AA turret they can see just for the money.
Maybe you guys are right. Maybe the infiltrator does need improving, but I'm already so awesome with it, that I cannot see how it needs it.
