[Suggestion] Infiltrators they're called, can they really do that?

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Southernforce, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Skeith

    stop circling around ztiller

    we alredy saw the difference between your streams and your videos

    not once in your stream i have seen you performing one thing that you did in your videos

    you got detected and you died a lot,like every other infiltrator out there,you have no vo doo trick to dont get shot once you get caught

    yes TE utilizes brute force and air superiority to overwhelm the enemy,if you think that is a bad tactic,roll an infiltrator outfit and try to perform even a quarter of the thing that we can accomplish,you can blame our methods for being cheesy,but they remain much more effective than anything else you or the infiltrator could ever hope to do in his current state,we remain the best outfit outthere because we dont **** ourselves to look leet.

    and sorry to break it apart for you,but you are not a competent player,you are a petuland child who climbs to the walls no matter what to prove that he is right.

    in a previous thread you claimed that if a infiltrator can walk around decloaked in the middle of an army no scoping every single one of them,it's because he is pro,when the author of the video himself admitted that his oppoents where blind

    but since you did the same thing not a long time ago you had to defend it as a holy act of skill

    you even said that he " managed to break the line of sight of the enemy",breaking the line of sight of 500 enemies in open fieeld .....yeah right

    in the end of the day your arguments are all "im good and you are bad",that makes me smile and even a tad sad because you are so short in arguments that you pretty much climb to this words in every single one of your posts.
  2. Aimeryan


    Who are these people that are saying you are not able to do what 'you' like to do? Just to clear this up - I am perfectly fine that your style of play works as you like and hell I'll even say you are good at it (not that I care of course!).

    However, either due to a lack of communication or understanding of what is being said by each other (which may be due to the inherent difficulties of language), we (as multiple parties) are both arguing over whether we can infiltrate or not. I am of the party that sees infiltration as remaining undetected (as in not being shot at!), where you are of the party that sees it as merely getting close to your opponents and preferably escaping

    Why does this matter? Well, as we both know, we are called Infiltrators. A lot of our issues (as in, people of similar opinion to myself) with the infiltrator is that we do not see the combat-orientated style of play as infiltration and thus argue that the infiltrator is lacking that which it is named after. For what reasons you argue against us I do not know, I will readily admit, perhaps because you believe we are arguing that your style of play can not be realised. Hopefully, you now understand this is not the case, at least with me.

    I think OldMaster80 has the right of it. For sake of argument, from this point on Ztiller, please understand that when I and other like me say we can not infiltrate (or more specifically, have little to no benefit over any other class at doing so) we are talking about a saboteur style of play that involves something different to direct combat. We tend to mean this in heavily defended situations too, like the crown, and not in situations where the numbers are few.

    I'll accept that when you talk about infiltration you mean your style of play. If we both understand that what we are talking about is different, hopefully, that will mean we wont end up in these frustrating arguments.
    • Up x 1
  3. Ztiller

    I am pretty confident that the Stalker cloak will NOT be 100% invisible. Most likely it will have just the same transparency as the Hunter cloak, the only difference being the Recharge mechanic. If i'm right, remains to be seen.

    But the fact of the matter is still that there is Nothing in this game that can force us to remove our cloak, short of the EMP grenade. Every other game that have 100% cloak have tons of ways to reveal the cloak. Radars, massive AOE weapons, Jammers, Narrows corridors and cloaks that gets revealed upon taking damage etc. Until those exists, you will probably never get a 100% cloak.

    Tons of people. Skeith in this very thread, says that infiltration is impossible, and that when i do it i'm just lucky etc. Tons of people believe infiltration to be literally impossible due to our cloak not being 100%.
    My definition of infiltration is to get in behind enemy lines effectively, and strike unexpecting enemies. That others have different beliefs, that is fine. But do NOT tell me that my infiltration teqnique is "Wrong."
    As i have said, i am arguing against people claiming that the cloak, the class and our weapons on a whole are useless or bad. Just because they cannot be used for one purpose, doesn't mean that they aren't absolutely awesome at others. One style of infiltration being impossible does not nullify the other style being possible.
    We do have benefits. Our cloak makes us harder to see. Not impossible. But harder. And that helps. Our weapon can OHK anything within 300m distance effectively. The only other OHK weapon in the game is the shotgun, with a effective range of 10m. No other class can kill as many players, undetected, as the infiltrator.
    I will let you guys go on your merry way, when you stop ******** all over my choice of playstyle simply because you disagree with it. Why should i just quietly sit by and listen while hordes of people spew ignorance about what can or cannot be done, when i prove just the opposite. They want their voices heard so that they can get the things they want. I want my voice heard to prove that things are not as bad as the whiners make them out to be and that the Devs should be careful when buffing the class. It is very lethal as it is.
    My videos are stunts. They are made for entertainment. I try to do something spectacular. My stream was requested to show how i regularly play. I don't regularly run around and try to knife down as many people as i can. That's ineffective.
    And i also got away plenty of times when i got detected. Something you claimed to be impossible. Learn to play.
    It's not a bad tactic. But don't even pretend that it somehow gives any legitimacy to your claims about the infiltrator.
    The infiltrator does not scale with numbers like the HA or Medic does. More infiltrators merely gives you a higher chance of being detected. HAs are all about firepower and stack directly on eachother without negatively affecting eachothers performance. Your mindless zerg is not an argument that is related to the infiltrator in any way.
    If i am not a good player, then how bad are not you? Because i am the one who can actually do the things you claim impossible.
    The infiltrator wasn't uncloaked constantly and i have in detail pointed out why he succeeded. Your straw man arguments only shows how desperate you are becoming.
    It wasn't an open field. There was a sunderer there. There were walls there. Once again, your flawed argument proves your desperation.
    If no skill is required, why don't you do it? You completely lack skill, but according to you you should be able to do it then. Go ahead. Prove me wrong. Prove to me that someone as unskilled as you can do the things that i do, as often and as easily.
    But i am not wrong. You're the one screaming about how something is impossible. I'm the one laughing at you when i'm doing those exact things, over and over again. Who is the skilled one? The one who claims something is impossible, or the one actually doing it?
  4. iller

    I'm a Sniper fo' Lyfe, it's always been my favorite playstyle in any FPS. I used to go so far as to reprogram Quake & Unreal into mods with lots more long range weapons & more challenging enemies that counter-sniped. That said, I'd give up the stupid primaries in this game in a heartbeat just to have a real Cloak and a working knife that doesn't suffer re****ed hit registry issues like the rifles already continually suffer from.


    This is before even accounting for the fact I'd have to pay $120 just to be able to 'snipe' in this game b/c of the Framerate Glitch
  5. Ztiller

    You bought a new CPU or what?
  6. Dr. Euthanasia

    Sensor Darts pick up our minimap position every time we move, this game is packed with narrow corridors, and we do get revealed upon taking damage. There's also nothing wrong with an uncounterable, 100% invisible cloak if the right measures are taken during its implementation to ensure that it can only be used for its intended purpose. For example, if the decloak animation and subsequent weapons lock took three times as long as the one we have now, nobody would be able to complain about being ambushed by Infiltrators from stealth. They would still get ambushed, but it would be by completely visible Infiltrators approaching them from behind instead.
  7. Aimeryan

    Indeed; for those that don't know, in addition to radars already being a counter, there have been other suggestions like static distortions, flashlight reveals, etc. I would also be happy with cloak visibility (for an alternative cloak) being a component of range; say, 0% visibility at ranges of greater than 10m, with increasing visibility as the infiltrator got closer.

    For the stalker cloak, as long as they take out the phase delay as well as recharge while stationary I could see it being quite interesting. Changing the recon dart tool to be a redeployable (with cool down) tool would help as well, like the engineer turret, as the current ammo system for it either means you have not enough to carry on infiltrating or you would be able to spam them everywhere at once and cover huge areas in a manner unintended.

    I would still prefer stationary visibility was 0 to remove having to hope that the person you are using it against doesn't have the eyes of a god, but just removing the phase delay would likely be a massive improvement along with the recharge when still. Note, I am talking about how long the game takes to register that you have stopped moving and apply the correct cloak visibility, not the delay in dropping cloak and being able to fire.

    @Ztiller, as I said, not me who is making those claims of your incompetence or inability. We differ on our meaning of infiltration, but I think we both know that now and needn't insult each other's ability.

    This could easily be interpreted as if you were talking about LAs instead, as this is something they do remarkably well, likely better than infiltrators.
  8. iller

    Yeah I'd be okay with the Flashlight overloading our "light bending suit" b/c it honestly has no other practical use to our target who'd be exposing their own position quicker by using it. IE: good Risk Reward model.

    like 10 minutes ago but it has nothing to do with this game.
    3DsMax was stuttering on me pretty bad just trying to rotate-view around a ~3000 poly biped.
    Also b/c encoding a 5 minute video was taking 18 minutes in some other program
    Even Photoshop is lagging on me now b/c I like having 20 layers, 10 paths, & 50px smudge dualbrush
    I haven't even started the higher poly rigging in Maya yet and I just KNOW that's gonna kill my stupid Dualcore.
    ...yeah I'm biting the bullet finally but it's not going to stop me from complaining about this game's terrible architecture
  9. nubery

    Let us hack ammo towers and landing pads so friendly vehicles can rearm in enemy territory and the enemy can't.
    • Up x 1
  10. Skeith

    if your videos are stunt how it is that you say that you can pull those things in your videos everytime and then your stream proves that your not sayng the truth mh?

    why i dont post a video of me doing the same thing oh yes i can answer to that

    i dont post videos about doing the same things that you do because i find pathetic decloaking in front on 5 guys afk and headshotting them with a sniper rifle at point blank

    the funny thing is that you actually suggest to the other infiltrators that this is how a real infiltrator should play,god have mercy to those poor souls that will follow that advice

    it was not open field?oh ty god for reminding me how a sundered can block the line of sight of 500 player thx man i forgot that


    the only thing that i still claim and that is still true is that infiltrators are not used in competitive play,and you running around killing 3 guys is not competitive play ztiller get in in your head and get it straight

    i never said infiltrating is impossible

    i said that it's insanely frustrating due to the fact that our cloak is horrible

    but please go ahead with another you lack skill,l2p im so leet blablablabla, i honestly dont care at this point
  11. Ztiller

    Because there is a difference between what i CAN do and what i WANT to do. I have already gone on a knifing spree. I don't feel the need to do it again, since it's not productive. And it's not every day that i find a Tech plant being contested between TR and NC and go into it. And when i do, i might have better thigns to do.

    I have obviously proven in my videos what i can do. Just because i don't do that and nothing else 24/7 doesn't mean i can't do it again. You're being desperate.

    Yes, yes. Keep finding excuses. Whatever you say, hon. I'm sure all those excuses will make you a good infiltrator someday.

    I'm telling other infiltrators that this is an effective playstyle. If they want to play infiltrator like they would a Heavy Assault, that's their choice. but don't cry if you die a lot. My style is effective. Only an idiot would deny that. And i will obviously teach them MY playstyle. Why should i teach someone elses?

    Go and watch the video again. they were NEXT to an open field. They were not on the open field. I apparently need to remind you. Learn to see.

    And that is only true to a mindless zerg outfit with no strategic or tactical skill whatsoever. Like TE. To other, more competent outfits, infiltrators are a viable asset that can make a huge difference. But i'm trying to explain quantum mechanics to a redneck here. I don't expect you to understand, you don't even understand the basics of the class.

    Yep. I will keep telling you that you lack skill and need to learn to play. And until you actually provides any evidence to oppose that, i have all the right to say so. Because you're a whiner, and i'm a doer. You whine, cry and scream about how something cannot be done. I laugh at you and do it. Learn to play.

    99% of the time when someone says that something is bad or useless, they are simply an unskilled player and should be laughed at.
  12. Rift23

    Infiltration is not a class, but a playstyle.

    I spent some certs on tank mines and C4 in addition to the AP mines infiltrators get. Why? So I can sneak past the vehicles to hack an equipment terminal, swap to a heavy or an engineer and all of sudden their vehicles are getting shot/C4'd in the *** and mines are popping up far, far away from the front lines. Fun fact: mines do not despawn when you switch class so with a little creative placement you can booby-trap an enemy's base under their nose.

    Once they figure out where I'm coming from, I swap back to infiltrator and sneak away in the chaos.
  13. Skeith

    nono maybe you dont get the fact that not the TE nor any other competitive outfit uses infiltrators at all

    and no ztill you cant infiltrate reliably yoru stream alredy showed that,you didnt show anything i said it was impossible to do

    my only evidence is that you try to claim that the hunter stealth is a good cloak,well stay assured that once the other cloaks are deployed,especially the spectrum(if it gets deployed)noone will ever use that thing ever again,because it fails in every single aspect

    and pretty much me and every other infiltrator out there agree with this point,some of them are evern better than you

    your style is not effective,you die a lot of times and you put everything on the fact to run fast and hope noone gets you and kills you and if they are busy looking around bam you kill them,not sayng that this is a bad playstyle just sayng that is insanely risk and situational

    if i recall right you specifically said that the infiltrator is a situational class amiright?if played like that yes it's insanely situational because you heavily depend on luck(not sayng that luck is a bad factor)and on enemy awareness

    that's why sometimes you pull something off and sometime you dont

    and again im not sayng that something cannot be done,sure sometime you may be able to do it

    but you dont achieve balance when 1 guy out of 30 can pull something that the other 29 cannot

    you do when almost 10 or 5 out of them can do that.

    my only issue with you ztiller is that you try to enforce facts that the entire infiltrator community disagrees with

    because a class that has an unreliable stealth mechanic that is weaker in close combat than any other class in the game,and has 0 ways to harm vehicles when vehicles are pretty much the center of the game is not a viable aspect,and no turrets are an insanely situational asset that is absolutely not avaible to the infiltrator most of the time

    unless you only care about your k/d ration but then your playng the wrong game

    why would i pick an infiltrator when i can sneak much more silently with the light assault?

    "but infiltrator can hack"

    yes and hacking is so absolutely poor in this game,vehicle terminals are in the middle of the enemy base and you hack them when you occupied the structure or if someone in the entire base is blind

    weapon terminals,lets you reload ammo and change to other classes....yay

    and then we have turrets,yes if you can hack them you can cause pain assuming that someone will notice you

    but that's about it,there is no secret objective like in PS1 when you could hack the command console,the respawn system or bring down the power of the whole structure,turning what was a fortified base into a defenceless outpost

    and before you start with the "but it's another game if it was in this game the class would bebroken"in planetside 1 infiltrating was much harder than it is in planetside 2,everyone had darklight vision and you pretty much had to choose different ways to completely avoid enemy detection,but at least it was rewarding.

    right now the class feels incomplete and unsatisfyng to play,and me and the whole subforum(especially the ps1 vets)agree with this

    are you fine with what you have now?fine i dont care,the forum absolutely does not care,and the only thing that you are accomplishing right now is annoyng the hell out of people like me or Dr.euthanasia who actually care about the class and want more to make it feel more complete.
  14. Scan

    Starting to agree with Ztiller.

    Many people playing the Infiltrator, are just bad players. I run into them all the time. Players playing the Infiltrator, as though it's a Light Assault, and then complain they get shot. Players camping hills. Players running and jumping in cloak, expecting not to get seen.

    The current incarnation of the Infiltrator certainly got the wtfpwnnerfbat shoved up the rectum by SoE incredibly deep after BETA. It almost seems as though the aim was to make the class as gimped and unattractive as possible for new players. It's certainly unfair how many certs need to be invested before the Infiltrator becomes fun to play.

    BUT, the largest problem is still that people don't want to invest time and energy into learning how to cope with all the drawbacks the class has, and therefore will never learn how to use this class effectively enough to see its potential.

    Buffing this class to compensate for the lack of skill of the players desiring the buffs the most, will completely flip it out of proportion and make it overpowered.

    What we need is sidegrades, not upgrades.
    • Up x 1
  15. Aimeryan

    While I do not necessarily agree with Skeith's assessment of Ztiller personally (I just have no reason to care one way or the other), I would like to pick up upon what he said near the end of his recent post regarding Planetside as a franchise.

    Right now, there are a good few FPS out there. These cater quite well to the crowd of players who like nothing more than to find an enemy and kill them. Planetside 1 was not one of these games. Sure, that component was in there, but Planetside was always known for being about more than that. Metagame and non-combat activities were so important to the game that I would say Planetside would simply not have been Planetside without them.

    This brings me on to Planetside 2; how the game currently feels, what direction I am currently seeing from the developers, and where I would expect a Planetside franchise to go.

    The game currently feels like nothing more than a Battlefield clone on a bigger scale, at least to myself. That in itself is not bad, but it is not Planetside, not to me. There is already a lot of FPS games out there, and the scale might be important but as a famous strategist once said, large battles are just a series of small battles playing out at the same time.

    What direction do I see the developers taking this in? Well we are starting to see some battle flow changes, so that is good news. However, regarding the finer details on improving the metagame I have found there to be little in the roadmap, or what is there is unscheduled and therefore currently a pipe-dream. I have found nothing regarding such things as new objectives to hack like doors, cameras, sensors, auto-turrets, etc. This is what truly makes me feel sad.

    So where would I like to see it go? As mentioned I would love to see a greater metagame, with not just more continents, but finer details that actually change/add to the way we can play, some listed in the above paragraph. Planetside 1 had a lot of these features. So why I would even expect that this is important to Planetside 2 since other FPSs like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, etc, don't do it?

    The answer for me is because the Planetside franchise is meant to be different to the other FPSs and is the reason I and others like me prefer it. If the developers do not wish to go down that route I will have lost a type of game that was quite unique, so I will strive with everything I have to change Planetside 2 into the spiritual successor of Planetside 1, and those who say I don't have the right be damned.

    This is why I have arguments with Ztiller, because I don't care that you can kill people with this class, it is completely away from what I care about. For me, and others like me, this class IS useless because it fails to live up to its predecessor, and I will not go meekly and be fine with it.
    • Up x 1
  16. Ztiller

  17. Stinneyt

    Very well put. This echo's my thoughts entirely.
  18. Skeith

    that's pretty much it,the class utterly disappoints to deliver what the original planetside was able to do

    planetside 2 like you said it's just a gigantic battlefield with no strategy or room for for anything else that is shooting the hell out of everything

    the infiltrator should feel like an alternative to that playstyle,in planetside 1 the infiltrator sucked in directive combat,you only had one pistol and you could kill someone only by taking him by surprise,your role was to sabotage the enemy force,not getting leet kills left and right.

    even if i was the best infiltrator in the world and managed to get inside every single damn structure,there is nothing for me to do besides hacking a turret that could be a major pain in the *** for the enemy

    and this is something that i doubt that will ever change,because it would mean the rework of every single base,and the devs after 6 months didnt even introduce the stalker cloak,let's forget about new base loadouts and new hackable objects.

    so yes the infiltrator is a class that performs badly a role that is not even rewarding to do in the first place.

    no stunt video of no scoping an army at point blank is ever going to change this fact.
  19. Aimeryan

    Sorry Ztiller for singling you out in that, I know you are saying some of the same things as us and recognise this too. The reason I argue with you is because any time I or others have said the class is not fine you have said we are wrong and/or bad players. I am absolutely willing to accept for you the class is fine, but for us it is not, hence why we argue.

    The class can only be compared to its environment and thus if the environment is not suited to a playstyle neither is the class. However, the reason the infiltrator is picked out here rather than say the medic is because it is the Planetside 2 analogue to Planetside 1's infiltrators - who were capable of doing what we wanted. Engineers can repair and supply. Medics can heal and revive. The two assault classes are meant to be focused on killing/destroying, but in different ways. Infiltrators are meant to infiltrate and sabotage - at least if they are indeed analogous.

    Obviously, we do need the greater metagame elements to be in the game before the class can do its job. However, without thinking about where we want the class to go we can't influence how the metagame will evolve in the first place. Hence, even you should be saying the class is not fine if you agree that we are lacking the metagame necessary for our class to be able to work the way we would like. If that is not the case then the metagame regarding us needn't change.

    @Skinneyt and Scan: Everything people like me and Dr. Euthanasia has asked for is by direct definition sidegrades. We are asking for a playstyle that we feel is missing and should be there. We really don't care about buffs to what can be currently done.
  20. Vaphell

    Many people playing any class, are just bad players. FTFY
    The difference is the other classes have no real trouble progressing even with mediocre skill.

    some data: top1000 in score for all servers (~9k records).
    Code:
                     |  MAX    CM     ENG    HA     LA     INF   
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    score%           |  5.36   8.95  51.19  18.07  10.87   5.55
    playtime%        |  4.45   8.61  48.26  19.85  10.99   7.84
    score%/playtime% |  1.21   1.04   1.06   0.91   0.99   0.71

    0.7 of average efficiency for top1000 players is certainly a l2p issue, yeah right.


    that is certainly a huge problem, no other class has one of basic playstyles locked behind 1000c SMG while being stuck with subpar cert gain. Squishyness and starting loadout lend themselves to scout/sniper style of play, no **** people play that way and not everybody has patience to make proverbial knife work in a gun fight. All other classes can access decent bullet hoses right off the bat.

    Other classes don't have to invest that much time and energy to learn how to be viable.
    • Up x 2