yup, medics are insane, they raise dead faster than you can kill people. Seen that clip of FrightfulCookie where he jumps out from the spawnroom, charges into the group of TR and drops betties? Kill list pops up for the next 10 seconds but most victims get rezzed even before his death screen ends (around 1:40). Rezzing seriously needs nerf and/or some counter mechanics (and don't tell me "kill them first", if there are more than 2 good luck having any impact) Medics exacerbate infs' problems who despite being almost pure AI class lack staying power and things go south once they get bogged down by people rezzing around them.
It is quite a shame that people tend to look down on infiltrators as useless pieces of coding, but it never hurts to have an infiltrator around. Hacking a vehicle terminal and spawning an AMS Sunderer for the team to use, often looked over and credit is given to someone else. Hacking the AA turrets and using them against enemy air reinforcements, also looked over and not noted. Sniping the engineers of an armored column, after a friendly airstrike, that didn't have an AMS Sunderer with ammo and a repair at all (worst mistake an armored column could ever make) and denying them access to their tanks on some . . . also ignored because the column never arrived or were delayed to surprise an attack force that is supposed to be weak but is strengthened. I am only posting this here just to make a point of my grievances, how infiltrators are looked down upon because our achievements go unnoticed or we just do not have access to the "fancy big guns" that the other classes have. No matter how bad things go, I'll still play infiltrator, noticed or unnoticed.
sigh.. this comparison again? MAX flash - 100m coverage MAX scythe - 200m coverage Max device - 250 meter coverage Dont get me wrong, its awsome you have the scout flash/schyte. That you've dedicated yourself at this atleast shows you know how insane good/powerfull detection can be. Now only problem is that the recon device is still better. Instantly accessible and almost impossible to remove. Like all others usually do, you can try to turn and twist this - but imo the recon device is better in just about any concievable situation. Scout Flash is good when you can hide it inside some shielded area in the biggest bases. Great for long, drawn out stalemate fights. Scout Scythe is good when you can hide it inside some shielded area in the biggest bases. Great for long, drawn out stalemate fights.
i agree, i have 75m flash and almost never pull it now that i have maxed out darts (ESF is still good because it's not trivial to take out and it can mop up lone wolves). Give me ammo box, terminal or sundie and in 10 seconds i'll cover any 200x200 area no problem, without making 2 steps. Charge into the enemy base? Shoot few darts and everybody knows everything there is to know about the opposition. My darts have allowed to resecure enemy infested Amp Stations and Tech Plants many times. Where are you going to pull radar flash from if the enemy force already camps inside the main building where mech terminals are? Garage in our tower taken over? Darts. Hear the cloaking inf trying to prey on people around the sunderer? Darts. Once the darts are widespread and readily available, aggressive infs are going to have a neverending bad day.
Man, I really do think we need some kinda counter-intelligence. Otherwise, what's the point of stealthing when everyone can see you on the map when you decloak? Granted, in smaller fights there may be no scout radar or darts, but in larger fights the enemy would have to be silly not to use at least one of those things. - Braddigan
I'd cert up & use a suit slot that protected against Radar devices if I knew when I'd need it. The problem with some of those large fights is you might never know you're being detected. Still, in bigger fights I tend to roll loud & with my team anyway.
While I play as an engi most of the time, the class that's tied in second place with LA for time spent is my infiltrator. While I may not be the best, I do consider myself at least better than your average sniper, and I have to agree with pretty much everything that's in the OP. While hacking is our unique ability, it's easily countered. Hacked turret? Either re-hack it or pop down an AV turret and repair it afterwards. At most you're inconvenienced. Hacked terminal? Same thing as with the turret, and it's even faster. One hit with the turret, let it blow, fully repair it within seconds. The only time hacking is actually useful is if you are in a squad doing operations behind enemy lines and need to pull a sundy from an unexpected position. Outside of hacking, and to a lesser extent the recon darts (I can spam those things as much as I want, but if people aren't watching their minimap it's useless), our other niche is precision targeting of key targets... which, with the increasing use of higher levels of NW, and now the color coding of cloaks, has been made even more difficult. I've lost count of the amount of times that I've gotten a perfect headshot, even within ranges one might usually expect to get a kill, just to watch my target run off behind cover before I can get a follow-up shot. There's a few times where I've managed to hit them a second time, either as they're running or if they're an idiot and decide to stand in the same spot firing away, but more often than not I find myself cursing at another lost kill. This wouldn't be such a big deal if I weren't mainly targeting engineers, medics, and other snipers, classes that general are in the midst of groups where they're less likely to be killed by enemy fire. Lately I've even been running around in my long range sniping loadout with med kits rather than prox mines to protect my backside, since I've found it more valuable to survive a headshot and heal up than it is to plop down a mine which may or may not kill an enemy coming at my back. With the notes for the Stalker cloak out, I've somewhat considered trying it out, just to see if I can do some actual infiltrating with a knife and pistol and still do the same job as I can with my rifle (precision killing). If it still gives the same kind of camoflauge as the Hunter cloak, though, I suspect its usefulness with be less than what it could be. Overall I find the class fun, but as with other people, there are times where I'd be far more useful as another class rather than a weak LA with a cloak rather than jump jets (and c4, can't forget the c4).
Yep the idea of what you want to do as an infi comes crashing down when you log in and reality slaps your around the face. I know they won't do a reboot (jeez the whole game needs it) but it is what's needed but never gonna happen.
You mean the guy that only puts up video's of him winning over his monumental loses he doesn't show you - it was something like that.
Improves the sensor dart's scanning rate by a total of 1.25 seconds and extends the range to 50 meters. The sensor dart's lifespan is extended to 45 seconds. Ammo count increased by 3. So the description is wrong?
He means if you fire your darts so their coverage doesn't overlap, you can effectively have radar cover over a wider area.
He is still wrong; 50*4 = 200, not 250 (and that still leaves gaps because circles do not tesselate).
If you have to use 4 well placed darts to come into the same arena as a scythe radar, that seems far less efficient, you're taking yourself out of the battle to vaguely dart up a place. I'd say maybe it'd be worth while if it lasted a full 2 minutes. And was MUCH MUCH MUCH more UI friendly. And supplied MUCH MORE information than the scout certs provide. Like maybe an icon for enemy MAX's.
@Aimeryan: at max lvl you have 5 darts, not 4. @ Braddigan: radius @ Inu: It could always be even better. Im looking forward to how the new recon-drone and motion sensor will play out. Good idea about that MAX icon, i would love that. Darts does however revel cloaked people, something the flash/scythe cant. We can argue this 'radar vs darts' over and over, its been done many times before. Imo darts are preferable in most situations. The point of this is not to belittle the radar-flash and such however. I like those a lot. What they lack in flexibility and instant access they somewhat make up for by persistency (time active) when you manage to hide or defend it. Imo main problem with the darts imo is the insane, disproportionate cost of certing it up. Dont really understand why its so expensive compared to the repairtool/medic-gun. either; a) Dumb oversight. Devs just arbitrary gave the detect device a much higher cost compared to other tools for no real reason? b) Its actually intentional. Devs think its so powerful (even more than repair/medic-gun) that the cost is 'justified'? I dunno, imo its unfair anyway. -> I agree with everyone who complain about the cost of certing up the recon-device (it should also give more assist-xp. Imo it should mirror the repair/medic-gun in this aspect also) -> I disagree with everyone who downplay/under-estimate its value in combat and its usefullness as a team-asset overall.
I much prefer the darts. The fact that I can toss them anywhere (even places without functioning vehicle terminals), can literally cover an entire base for zero cost, they scan faster & more often, pick up cloaked units, and most importantly cannot be removed makes them far superior in my opinion. The cost is a bit high though, especially for a new Infiltrator. On my relatively young VS & NC Infiltrators I definitely feel the cert crunch when trying to get up all the certs practically requires for a successful time. Still, for the strength it gives you (in small battles it is straight up overpowered), it might be balanced.
The radar darts are valuable, and I prefer them over the flash because I can use them in a pinch but...they don't reveal infiltrators, at least they didn't when I last checked. In addition, if the numbers are the radius, and a single dart has 50 then the radar on the flash and ESF cover a much much larger radius. When one is around, the darts definitely lose their usefulness, I think. - Braddigan
They do, what they don't reveal is players that don't move. Is motion sensing so opponents needs to move for show in the radar, but it works even if the infiltrator is cloaked. Some players have the habit of staying still when they heard the pinging sound of the darts.
One argument against the darts, however, is that the vehicle radars can replace them. Maybe the radius isn't quite as large (although, bring two for super coverage?), but the persistence and binary function means once there is one then you don't need darts - everyone in the area they cover (which is very large area) will be detected. They are also small, cheap and easily replaced (fast, any vehicle terminal, very low cooldown). This is not true for other vehicles/options replacing class tools: Sunderer vs Medic (revive): sunderers are expensive, large lumbering beasts with a huge cooldown. When in the area they do not replace medics - sunderers can not revive MAXes, anything they do revive takes a lot longer than a medic (assuming medic is nearby), the sunderers revive will likely be further from the action thus taking even more time. This means both can operate in an area without sunderers taking away from medics. Sunderer vs Engineer (ammo supply): same deal as above, with the added travel of going to the sunderer in addition to coming back from it. Vehicles vs HA/Engineer (vehicle destruction): Ease of acquirement is the biggest factor here - a lot of air vehicles of difficult to come by in a pinch, and heavy ground vehicles are only slightly better at times. The high resource cost and large cooldowns are also of great importance. The vehicles can not also get everywhere HA/Engineers can. Lastly, there are usually multiple opponents on which to use the vehicles or tools meaning except in huge zergs vehicles and HA/Engineers do not take much away from each other. Auto-repair vs Engineer (repair): this is about the repair options you can get on vehicles and MAXes. The auto-repair is delayed for many seconds and damage resets display, so it can not be used in combat. It is relatively-slow when it does kick in. Lastly, taking it means you have not taken something else, usually something important. Regardless, it still wouldn't take away from the value of an engineer around to repair you - merely help when there is not. Medkit vs Medic (heal): Medkits cost resources, but they are cheap. However, they are not sustainable - unlike a medic. Using them to repair light bits of damage seems wasteful since it is easy to get back in to that position - while every bit of health is valuable. Therefore, using them regularly for all but very strong damage will make you run out on both character and depot very quick. Still, this is perhaps the only one on the list that I could say replaces the tool sometimes (but not all times!). It wouldn't be so bad if medkits took a nerf in my opinion. As you can see, the main use of these options is for when someone with the tool is not around - they are an inferior but are capable of being a self-supplied alternative. The flash/ESF radars are not inferior - they are persistent and replace the function of the darts for the area they cover. The area (compared to a fully maxed-out dart supply) is less but is still huge, and does not require an infiltrator sitting near an ammo supply to sustain. If the area covered by vehicle radar was small - meaning they were only good for covering small areas (like chokepoints, objectives, etc) - they wouldn't replace darts as easily. Similarly, if the pulse time had large delays (like 10 seconds or more), then darts could still be useful within the areas they covered.
Except everything that 'replaces' the Radar Dart must be purchased from a vehicle terminal (which may not always be available), must be babysat, is easily destroyed, is only mobile when actively used, and not easily replaceable. The Dart is replaceable in limited circumstances much like every other tool available to infantry, but for long term usage the maxed Recon Dart is far superior in nearly every way - its inability to detect stationary targets is its only downside. I understand the desire to make the Recon Dart seem weak in order for it to receive buffs but it simply is not a weak tool. It is one of the most valuable things in the game in my opinion, allowing me & my teammates to run circles around my enemies.
