Infiltrator Update Details

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Fightfan84, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. OldMaster80

    Permanent cloaking + SMG would be extremely OP. Stalker is for slow-paced gameplay and very little aggressive. It's meant to be used to deploy the recon tool, a spawn beacon, hack enemy consoles, capture points and escape, scout enemy positions and so on.
    • Up x 1
  2. Tenebrae Aeterna

    ...and slitting the throat of any wayward straggler who dares travel without the pack. This can not be forgotten!
  3. illgot

    unless it is perfect invisibility it will be useless. Seeing a hazy shadow of boxy character outlines is worse then an enemy standing around in camo.
  4. Aimeryan

    Yeah, indeed. I even think the secondary weapons might be too powerful with full invisibility, even if the full invisible is only beyond very close-range - some of the secondary weapons are viable outside SMG range.

    I am sure there are variable ways that the combat ability of the cloak could remain without causing the infiltrator using this cloak to become overpowered, but the main focus of the Stalker Cloak should be exactly what you said and nothing should be prioritised over this.

    I am certainly not against this idea! However, it has to be secondary to the sabotage focus of the cloak. I am sure both are possible though without either being overpowered, but it might mean getting a little creative. The idea of a weak visual effect on nearby enemies HUDs could be the very thing needed here (a very weak static or EMP effect has being suggested before). This will cause the enemy to have a heightened sense of awareness if they notice the effect, without making the infiltrator fail at being able to sneak around.
  5. Tenebrae Aeterna

    From what's shown on the test server so far, there is one cloak that's stated to be completely invisible at the cost of draining nanites faster. That was the "Spectre" cloaking device...which wasn't Stalker cloaking, the latter also displayed but not highlighted in the screenshot I seen.
  6. OldMaster80

    I miss the old glorious days of Planetside 1, with the TR most beloved knife: the chainblade. And it's exactly what it looks like: a crossover between a knife and chainsaw! BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!

    [IMG]
  7. Tenebrae Aeterna

    We're supposedly getting "new weapons" with the upcoming Infiltrator update. Thus far, we've heard of Stalker and Specter cloaking devices. Long ago, the devs were quoted as saying they wanted to work in the unique knives again...and what better time than when they're giving us a cloak that, again, takes away our primary weapon?
  8. Predator

    Ok consider me that BP guy. No I am not joking I feel like a jerk. Love you guys! <3
  9. vanu123




    Improved Decoy Grenade - shows up on HUD and makes gunshot sounds = meh
    Stalker Cloak - Fill up cloak bar while stopped. Moving lowers the cloak bar. Downside give up primary weapon = sounds good
    Motion Sensor - Real time motion sensing. Planted on the ground and can be destroyed = decent
    New Suit Slot - Shows explosives on HUD and threw walls = :D
    Straight Bolt - Shoot Bolt action rifles without leaving scope, gonna take up a weapon slot= :D
    Recon Drone - You control a flying spy drone, maybe weapons..unclear = If they do have weapons they should be weak very weak.
    New Infiltrator weapons but no specific's. NS SMG will be in Update 12 or 13 = nice

    Vehicle hacking was talked about. The word is a big no. = RIOT
    Prone isn't likely going to happen due to amount of code to get it working well. = I dont really car/want it.
    Medic will likely be the next class update from what Arclegger said. = It should be LA, because right now it is a pointless class to use except for C4, with the c4 nerf (that I heard was actually a mistake and wont go live). I am talking about Icarus jump jets people BRING THEM BACK!
  10. Dr. Euthanasia

    Please don't start talking like Spectre Cloak is actually going to show up in this update, guys. It was there on the test server and nothing more. To my knowledge, nobody in charge has even spoken about it since. I posted that image because it puts a name to a completely different style of cloak from both Hunter Stealth and Stalker Camouflage, and it implies that at least one person working for SOE has considered the idea of complete, mobile invisibility.

    Also, in my experience, it's much easier to convince developers to implement an idea that was originally theirs.
  11. Scudmungus


    Try practicing running around with a Comm, a Knife and a little Claymore . Find the right place and you'll be surprised!

    Yes, the cloak visibility needs to be normalised across all settings.

    No, we don't *need* total invisibilty.

    Map awareness and a little knowledge of human behaviour works wonders!
  12. Dr. Euthanasia

    Okay, let's establish a few things here.

    1. Visibility altering effects are only effective when players are looking in your direction. They do not help you hide behind objects.
    2. The purpose of all stealth gameplay is to provide the player with conditions under which they can avoid being detected. Failing to meet these conditions results in detection.
    3. These conditions should be consistent. Failure to make them consistent will inevitably lead to unexpected successes and, more importantly, unexpected failures. As the player will be attempting to avoid the conditions which lead to detection, they will experience more unexpected failures than unexpected successes.
    4. When the player fails, they should be aware of what caused their failure. Furthermore, the player should be capable of avoiding that same failure a second time by changing their behavior. In this way, the player may improve their skill at the game.

    With a "mostly invisible" cloak, an enemy player looking in your direction is the only condition required for your stealth attempt to fail, provided you are within its considerable rendering distance. As the cloak's success is dependent upon the enemy looking at it, its effect is not consistent, and frequently does lead to unexpected failures. Furthermore, because it is impossible to convey information to the player about how attentive an enemy is, these failures do not provide meaningful feedback that can be used to modify behavior in the future - not that it would be helpful even if they did, of course, since each enemy reacts differently to the same cloaking effect. Finally, since the conditions required for your stealth to fail happen to encompass all possible scenarios where your stealth would also have an effect, it is impossible to avoid providing enemy players with a chance to detect you while using the cloak, and also to know what that chance is ahead of time.

    In conclusion, yes we ******* do. Don't confuse total invisibility with unconditional invisibility and maybe you'll have an easier time accepting how important this is. What we don't need is Infiltrator players running around being impossible to detect regardless of what happens, since that does nothing to promote stealth gameplay either. That doesn't mean that every enemy player who looks at you should have something render on his screen - he should have to do something to catch you, or alternatively, you should have to make a mistake to be caught. Most importantly of all, however, is that the mistake you make to be caught should be something you could have avoided. Until this happens, the most effective and skillful form of stealth is to play like literally any other class by ignoring the cloak and using lines of sight and naturally occurring cover to hide yourself from sight.
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  13. Scudmungus

    All I can see is a frustrated player whose manner of playing would be made easier by total invisibility.

    We don't *need* total invisibility.

    It would help some styles of play and could open up interesting new styles of play.

    You obviously do and I'm all for the option of having it via a system like the 'Spectre' cloak.

    Personally, I've never found myself thinking 'Gee, I wish I was totally invisible!' and yes, if it is made available I'll be happy to find ways of making it work.
  14. Vaphell

    i have. Whenever i tried to cut LoS and crouch-cloak. Despite the crouch-cloak state being 'almost perfect' the maneuver never worked, i was sprayed down like the cloak wasn't even there. When I do such a move I already make a gamble - the guy can just wait me over and force me to decloak once the energy runs out. I don't need additional layer of unpredictability called video settings on the other end.
    • Up x 1
  15. Aimeryan

    Persona attacks by implying someone is a bad player (rather than discussing their points) is extremely frowned upon in these forums; do this again and I will report you.

    Everything you say I disagree with completely. I feel we are just anathema to each other, but I will try and argument the point anyway.

    Randomness deciding results is never a good thing. Randomness that can be taken into consideration and adapted to is fine, better than fine in fact. The cloak, however, is the former - there is nothing you can do to make sure it works by doing everything right in any situation where it is actually taken into consideration. Furthermore, if it fails due to randomness (which it inevitably does) you can not adapt - you simply die. It is the worse of all possible ways to implement stealth in any game I have played - and I have played a lot.

    Like Dr. Euthanasia said, do not confuse invisibility with undetectability. There are many easier and fairer ways to balance a detection system than relying on players inability to see hazy objects. This is not even a new thing being discussed on this forum - do a search and you'll find this has been discussed almost to death already.
  16. Tenebrae Aeterna

    Not really.

    You see a lot of players wanting a fully fleshed out class rather than a fairly limited Sniper with less versatility than the other classes. As it stands, we've been given an awkward middle-ground with the SMG that Koolaid makes great use of...but what we've wanted are the Infiltration aspects of our class. For the majority of us, this means something reminiscent to the original Planetside in Stalker cloaking at the cost of losing our primary weapon and focusing more around knife play.
  17. Dr. Euthanasia

    Technically we don't *need* guns that don't jam or explosives that can't be duds either, but these things are already in the game because mechanics which randomly cause your equipment to fail are frustrating and contribute absolutely no gameplay value to a shooter like this. Hunter Stealth is no different. Sometimes, when you use it as anything but a sniper, it will fail to work, you will die, and the only way that this will have been your fault will have been because you expected it to do anything in the first place.

    It's not a matter of catering to certain playstyles, it's a matter of mitigating pointless frustration. Once again, you're getting hung up on the apparently offensive notion that the cloak be totally invisible like this isn't functionally identical to a partially invisible cloak that somebody doesn't notice. The only difference is that the former is reliable and the latter isn't. All you have to do is add avoidable conditions under which the cloak will always fail, and you have something that is equalized across all graphics settings, actually fair to the Infiltrator, and not predicated upon nebulous properties like the perception of an enemy player.

    Good game design is not necessary, no, but it sure helps keep your playerbase from hemorrhaging.
  18. Scudmungus

    *Your* frustration. I get your frustrated with how cloak works, with regards to your style of play.

    All I can say is, that I've found it to be fine - with the qualifier that I still want its rendering to provide relatively equal visual distortion across all graphic settings.

    If an enemy finds us in a corner or spots our position, I feel we deserve to be punished. It's going to happen and if it couldn't, there would be no skill to infiltration other than 'avoiding enemy LoS'.

    It's the risk that balances the reward.

    We could argue about the balance or risk/reward but personally I'm happy with where it's at now, so I simply won't.
  19. Dr. Euthanasia

    I'm sorry, but what have you done to deserve punishment in this scenario? No position will render you safe from detection, so it's not like you necessarily picked a bad spot. Rather, you picked any spot where an enemy would happen to look at you, and then expected the cloak to do something, and it failed you. That isn't being punished for a lack of skill, and no amount of skill is ever going to overcome the fact that when the cloak is doing something, it has a chance to fail.
  20. Scudmungus

    Within the context on sneeking up to a point/enemy
    :

    You've done the best you can do to sneak up, using cover and taking into account possible enemy LoS

    Your reward, should you reach your goal, is a cap/targets die.

    Their reward should they catch you is forcing you to retreat or, ideally kill you.

    This 'skill' is using the tools you've got in a way that supports them, not relying on something that was never meant to be relied upon, i.e the visual portion of cloak, for something it wasn't meant to achieve : preventing an observant target from spotting you.

    The cloak's main advantage is the ability to control radar visibility and reduce the chances of casual/lucky detection. It is a powerful tool when used as intended, in conjunction with map awareness, an understanding of player behavior and so called 'guerrilla tactics'.

    For everything else, it's just better camouflage, with all the limitations of camouflage. .
    If it was a guarantee then we'd have to address an observant opponent's reward for being attentive and/or investing time in spotting.

    As mentioned previously, we're really talking about risk/reward - for all parties. The argument that 'Hey, it's not a lack of skill it's luck getting me killed!' reveals a misunderstanding of the how the tool 'stealth' has been implemented within *this* game.

    Give us a different tool - the Spectre cloak or Stalker cloak - and we'll be able to use stealth in new ways.

    In the meantime, we have what we have and best learn do the best with the tool we've got, a system that benefits us more the further we are from our target and lets us control radar visibility.