Well let me ask you this, should a one legged man fall will he have trouble getting up? What happens if he is in a wilderness alone, will he not struggle further without help? How is help to arrive without him searching and the help searching and being willing? He will probably most likely starve. That is what will happen to the game. Developers ask for help because they know that they need help to help their product. Developers are figuratively also starving because they need our input and discussion. The colossal community that has been loyal to companies like blizzard and EA have done so with constant feedback to the developers. Development on the game it is being starved out by its competitors. Without it improving quality then what food it is being given will eventually dry out. The man or in this instance the game will be abandoned by the tribe. The infiltrator class as mentioned is only a start. Asking only for the infiltrator class to be modified in a healthy manner is also asking it to cause further disease/debilitation. First step is to work on the little problems to solve the larger one. The large problem is lack of support from willing customers. The solution is to make the game more appetizing. This is done in my eyes by adjusting infantry game play to a healthy state. While vehicles are a large portion of the game infantry is the main course. So even if the start is 3-4 of us giving feedback and coming up with ideas it will help. Get your buddies to start giving quality feedback to the developers that they can use. Example; Hey guys I know you have been working on this but there is an ejection seat issue when I switch from seat X to seat Y. By fixing the bug it will improve gameplay and stop someone from possibly quitting in dissatisfaction. Our motive is that we currently like the game or what the prospect of the game could allow. I do not seeing our plan failing if the developers work with the data we provide freely on that motive. In order for this to work you can not feed them garbage. Give them the good stuff that will help the game better. In my opinion infiltrator changes that would be healthy at the current time would be; Move infiltrator hit points to be equal to light assault medic and engineer Make emp grenades have a fuse. Two reasons not being able to dodge them makes them over perform and for consistency; it is the only instant detonation grenade left in grenade slots. Make hacking useful. Make decoy grenades effective at deception. Make longer shots worth more starting at 40 meters and scaling up a reasonable to a cap. Make motion spotters pulse similar to darts. As mentioned above it makes newer players dependent on them and makes them frustrated not being able to succeed when they are not around. Allow for some sort of AV on the infiltrator class. My idea personally was a corrosive explosive. It follows the assassin and sabotage feel of the infiltrator. It would allow you to maintain the infiltrators hit and run play style as well. Quit flaming and throw some ideas. Infantry game play needs work! I am opting to start us on the infiltrator.
the infiltrator for the most part is fine -Hacking is usefull you take an enemys vehicle terminal and get a sundy when your trying to take a base this is very valuable -giving emp grenades a fuse would hurt some of their purposes these things in my eyes are mainly a tool for taking down spawn becons motion censors and regen fields before you try and defend your base giving it a fuse would make bases with a second floor much more difficult to emp without getting your team caught in the crossfire. -decoy grenades are actually pretty well designed though they dont work particularly well they will show an arrow on motion spotters make real gun sounds for your faction ect dont know how they could improve them. -giving us the same health as everyone would be nice since i dont know why we get punished with 100 less shield for our ability its already really easy to spot within 20 or so meters and it isnt like you can shoot while cloaked and stalkers already trade in their primary weapon to use theirs. -extra points for longer range shots would be nice aswell as sniping doesn't reward for crap -motion spotters are fine they dont pulse because you cant put multiple down and you can only stick them at your feet its a trade off and if they pulsed they wouldn't be used -They did give infils AV its really crappy but it does exist in the form of explosive bolts for the crossbow and you know what we dont need AV our role is pretty set and giving use decent av would make us the jack of all trades and we dont need it
The only changes I would like to see are improvements to the cloaking graphics if possible. Completely not moving should render you Undetectable, Maybe use the Hold breath system when your crouched to acheive this for a duration of time. And EMPs VS vehicles IMHO should Halve or drop a sundy deploy shield, and deactivate weapon systems for 1-2 seconds. This way infils cannot directly damage the vehicle, but render it much more vulnerable for a short period.
Tho i agree that it would make sense that emps would be able to disable vehicles weapons for a short period of time and do something about deploy shield and hell even make the new cloak sundy they are testing to add visable for a short period of time i feel that this would make the frag and more so decoy grenade even less appealing than they already are even if it does make sense for the emp to do more i feel it would make it a bit overpowered and they are in a pretty good state as is. this said i also believe that infiltrators role with vehicles is simply reliably finding them for your team nothing more nothing less
See the thing is you think the game is dying because of balance (or the imbalance). The game is on life support because SOE doesn't know what to do with the game and instead of focusing on the rts aspect of the game they tried to do too much of everything watering the game down. Appeasing the MLG crowd didn't help either. So basically you have a threeway tdm that instead of functioning on multiple servers functions on one big one. You just pick a level and go shoot people there. Just because you think giving the least played class an AV option will suddenly increase the player count (which actually would most likely have the opposite effect) doesn't mean it will. Your entire post is a collection of non-issues. I'm pretty sure most people still run Hunter's and most people run laser instead of flashlight because it's a worthless attachment most of the time. The SPM thing is an entirely separate "issue" that may or may not need fixing. Should medic get an insane SPM just for popping his bubble and holding left click on corpses? LA also has lower SPM than infil in infantry battles. People also look at sniping from wrong perspective in this game, you're not doing anything killing a guy once in ten minutes by sitting on a hill. You should always strive to be close to battle where you can actually make a difference. The skill comes in knowing where you are safe enough but still making a difference. Why should you get rewarded for bringing practically nothing to the fight? Cqc infil isn't bad at all, he's just more difficult to be effective at compared to other classes. You've been given the tools to be effective in cqc. Cloak for repositioning, emps to even out the hp difference and spotter to know where everyone is moving. If you can't utilize the tools you've been given it doesn't mean the class is bad. Infil also has the access to some of the best infantry weaponry in the game in cqc boltaction, vandal and cyclone. I'm pulling the 'git gud' card.
Seems everytime I see a forum asking for things to be changed I see people wanting to change something they have no understanding of. I've yet to see a forum where there were legitamate concerns and good ideas on how to make things better. Seems it's just "Heavy Shields are OP and do their job well so nerf" or "Give Infil more health and make him as strong as a HA" Different classes have different roles, it's how the game is. You wouldn't play an RPG and ask that a Mage/Spellcaster/Healer/Necromancer have the same health, damage output, and tankiness as a Berserker would you? You wouldn't ask that a Berserker have the same long range as an Archer would you? No, you would play Archer for range, Berserker for close combat and tank, Mage for spells and aliments, and Healer to heal and help out the party. Having multiple classes do the same thing and function exactly the same defeats the point of multiple classes. To put it bluntly: Git gut L2P Evolve or Perish.
I suppose this little fray will get chilly, since I'm jumping in. The arguments of using strengths to overcome weaknesses being invalid are in fact, invalid. Why play any class? Because they are better at certain things than others. I'm a sniper, always have been and always will be (but I'll remain as unbiased as possible). That is why I play infiltrator, and not HA. Long range potential aside, the argument of cloakers being ineffective at CQC is just absolutely false. So many veterans claim that "Infils are too visible", yet it is those same veterans that we end up jumping with relative ease. We can indeed be one-shotted by a sidearm, but when I am dropped whilst playing CQC, it is going to be for one of these reasons, in order: 90%- I am ill-prepared or I fail to aim properly 5%- An ally to my target catches me off-guard and I cannot react quickly enough 4.5%- I am a victim of awful lag for whatever reason .5%- My target whips around and drag-shots me in the face with a point blank Commie. We aren't HAs with a slow, glowy shield and big-daddy-slaughter-factory machine gun. This class was designed to be a high skill-floor/high skill-ceiling class that actually enjoys running from cover to cover, using active camouflage to obscure our position, flanking the enemy, and reaping the benefits of a smarter, more agile, more offensive team-support role. Maybe the infiltrator just isn't the class for your preferred playstyle. Rather than looking at the cloaker and saying "This is what I want it to do", try looking at it and saying "This is what it does, and this is how I'll make that work". I've yet to use the 'L2P' argument before, but I think we all get to do it once, right? So here's my one time, mark it down forumside. -Stay Fr0sty
Just my thoughts: Information is ammunition (if you get this quote, you get +10 internet points), it's very powerful and saying "oh what do you bring to a squad except..." is kind of flawed logic in my eyes. However it also doesn't scale too well in larger fights. At some point you reach saturation on information. Infils both suffer and flourish in bigger fights. You're often less able to pick off targets 1-2 at a time (with lower health, this puts you at a disadvantage), but at the same time you can capitalize on the chaos, you can often score multiple kills among enemies (assuming not everyone has a heightened sense of awareness). In small fights, you're more likely to be noticed due to the noise of cloak, etc. but you can also control engagements a lot more. Cloaking is not invisibility, it's to make you a harder, less visible target. Even the deep cloak state just makes you very difficult to locate/find. All cloaks have their purpose, armour cloak suits an aggressive play-style a lot more. Hunter cloaking is better for covering distance or for most snipers, cloaking, taking a shot then re-cloaking. I really don't have an issue with Infil being the only class to die to a single headshot from a sidearm within 5, 8 & 35m respectively. All of these weapons headshot multipliers (and damage) seems to indicate that it's the intended design (crossbows deal 650 damage and yet won't OHK standard infantry).
I am pushing for health to close the gap in survivability between infiltrator and the other classes. I am actually using heavy assault as a bench mark since it has plenty of adjustments and over time I have seen which changes are good or bad for the game. I am remembering which changes were good. I'll put this one in bold. If we give the developers a direction that they can stick to without us being at fault for stretching them out, the game will get things accomplished towards a healthier model. We do not need to use my own suggestions but we do need to get to a point where we agree on something. Infantry gameplay has problems. I'll start with the emp comments. Putting too much weight on the already powerful emp will get it gutted causing our efforts to go in reverse. EMP is causing a lot of distress. Flashlights are I win cards versus escape mechanics. More experienced players will tend to run this on their ns-44. Being one shot killed by a sidearm isn't the primary reason I am pushing for equal health. CQC Infiltrator I never said wasn't effective. I said it wasn't as effective as the other classes. I feel that increasing their health at close range to the plethora of explosives nearly one shot or are one shot kill CQC weapons with .5 ttk will also help the players with poor machines. Hacking can be shutdown pretty easily. Which is fine, personally I like how it is and would like it to be part of the maps in the future more so. Many people complain it is not useful enough so I brought it here to see what we could do with it. I am pushing for some anti vehicle on the infiltrator to make it so you can tag and get assist experience from the target. Infiltrators would be able to scare off maxes and not be yelled at in squad chat for being unable to deal with tanks/maxes. The tools I have in mind to do this would not supersede other classes but allow for contribution. Two big issues is people in pubs ( the majority) make it less enjoyable because of negative viewpoints on the infiltrators kit. Making such anti vehicle not cost 1100 certs would hopefully reduce the image. This is a debatable concept that I will not shove hard. Primarily because I honestly am shooting blind in the dark and hence is the reason I asked for community review before pushing developers to implement and use the resources we give them. Yes I know that the vandal isn't bad. The bolt actions are excellent. SMGs still perform better when used by the other classes. There is no true load out for CQC that will perform on equal ground to the light assaults mobility or the heavy assaults durability and versatility. Cloak is a poor disengage in its current format. I have come to discover as I learn about graphics design and computer science it isn't cheap to modify either. Again health is a simpler change and more cost efficient. Heavy assault is a good model because of its versatility. It can deal with multiple situations. So can the other classes. They can do this while generating more experience. This is increased further by ideal conditions. Meanwhile infiltrator is very niche, under ideal conditions it relatively does not accelerate as much. This is why I am wanting to expand the kit available.
*edit second reason for av was to allow for a hit and run play style to funnel the max into a team oriented monster damaging machine. Maxes in my opinion to be modified at a later date need to be maintained as non standalone damaging terrors to breach/defend the front where other vehicles can not and keep the objective game going. My idea for av was a corrosive explosive that keeps ticking versus machinery until a tick of repair is done to the target up to a limit. Say 700 and mitigated by flak or other vehicle resistances. This allows for our hit and run game play to continue and not rely on them being poorly skilled to allow the 2.5 seconds the infiltrator needs to kill them. Maxes should flourish in team play- They are a machine/ infantry hybrid. Again keep in mind these aren't the only changes I will challenge the community to come up with. Reason for edit; Really long windows update made me have to post the unfinished comments.
Edit: Post delorted. My horrible suggestion was patched out during my absence. Thanks a lot for that worthless comment, me.
Oh. I thought they might have. I did ***** about it all the time, along with every other tanker. I'm pretty out of touch. I quit when they put the Valkyrie and implants in, however long ago that was. Oh well.
