Infantry weapon changes - 12/12/2013

"I want to be able to engage them at a reasonable range where we both have an equal chance of killing one another"

Then whats the point of other classes? Pros and cons?

You also want to engage a MBT with a flash and expect equal chances?

Lock ons are a complete different thing as they require only pointing the target, and no such skill needed to hit headshots on a moving target; there goes the controversy and criticism.

If you are still wandering around carelessly in a open area after being repeatedly shot down by snipers, its your fault. You should consider threats, and not expect you can take on every single one of them with equality.

What do I do when I'm flying on my ESF and spot a skyguard? Try to hit it? perhaps! Go full heads on it like I would against a sunderer or AA unarmed MBT expecting to take him down? No way, I'd just die. And other ESFs? I'd go offensive only? Of course not, as a enemy ESF is indeed "equally" harmful to me as a ESF as I am to him, unlike a my relation to a Skyguard unlike me and a MBT, and etc.

As infantry, do you think I go against a MAX suit when I am infiltrating just because I "know" there is a MAX there, expecting I'd have equal chances? No way, I'd run. I would do the same if I was a heavy, set to close quarters combat, and found myself in a open area where a sniper is trying to get me. In that case, I think you would want to have the opportunity to run 200+ meters expecting to not be shot down and take down the sniper with a shotgun. Totally equal, right...

I' understood what you meant. But currently a heavy should never lose to any other class with an equally skilled player behind it. This is mostly due to their shields (particularly resist), but also due to their incredibly capable weapons.

The change will not effect this at all aside from reducing their effectiveness at mowing down players with hip fire. This will only have an effect on very very close combat as you will always be more effective ADSing unless you are right on top of your target. LMGs are over performing in very close quarters which not only doesn't fit the LMG role, but also invades the niche of SMGs and shotguns (both available to heavies). Heavies will still be the the most capable infantry classes and their LMGs still the most capable weapons due to their massive magazine sizes.

Don't forget that assault rifles and possibly carbines (?) that are more capable at hip firing are getting nerfed as well along with laser sights. Not only that but .75 ads strafe weapons are getting nerfed, mostly effecting the more popular assault rifles and carbines. So there are adjustments being made across the board.

You can't compare vehicle combat to infantry. Combat Medics, Light Assault, and Engineers all have an equal chance of taking out a Heavy. MAXs are special because they cost resources to pull which means they require a team effort to take down. How are Infiltrators special that they should only require other infiltrators to take them out?

They are not immune to other classes, but still, its undeniable that a shielded heavy versus a medic poses a bigger chance of a win, as well as an engi with a turrent properly placed against any other class, a light assault in very elevated and irregular terrain against those who can not easily jump around and assault from unusual places. Its all about situations. If you go against an infiltrator at close range, if he is equipped with a sniper rifle, he won't stand a chance. Same for you if you are far away and you are not equipped with a weapon that gives you that much of a range.

Yes he/she does. Get a headshot and you win, get a chest hit and knife/switch to secondary and you might also win.

That doesn't equate to OHK. A sniper could still be every effective and win againts all other infantry classes at long range without allowing them to OHK.

Personally I despise all the OHK weapons in PS2, I mostly find them frustrating. I also think that the sole reason why we have OHK sniper rifles in PS2 is because they are to be found in most FPS games.

OMG TY JOSHUA, AWESOME! I actually might be able to convince my gf to play with me again, now, AND you've done a great service for the sniper rifle community!

(300 meters is just about the draw distance for infantry, isn't it? It seems to me you may as well make it unlimited in that case for the Longshot, RAMS, and Parallax )

EDIT: As long as that damage reduction doesn't effect OHK's for headshots so that snipers can still OHK from 300 meters on a full health target, I'm totally happy with that. If they can't pull off a headshot they don't deserve to get their health down to critical levels.

Keep those skill ceilings up!

So, NC weapons are going to get a balance pass, so you nerf ALL LMGs including NC LMGs and call it a buff.

Good job, Joshua. Good freakin' job.

/sarcasm

The game isn't balanced on 1v1 engagements. But if we're looking at a sniper VS an infantry player they each have their own advantages in different situations. Close to even medium ranges, you should devastate them. Medium and a little past you are pretty equal. Long ranges, yea they have the advantage. However that's the whole point in having distinct classes with defined roles. If you want everyone to always have an equal chance of winning every engagement in every situation, then why even have distinct classes, especially a sniping role?

The scope of this game is to capture large scale combat. Aircrafts, tanks, ground vehicles, and a diverse class system provide a complex environment with niches that complement each other to emphasize strategy and team work. There are all kinds of areas where you can argue that you had no chance in a given 1v1 situation. however in the grand scheme of things, all the players on the battlefield, each playing their own role, balance each other out. We can all name something we don't like getting killed by because we couldn't kill it back but changing those aspects of the game would kill what the game is all about. What is important is that that things are balanced within similar niches, that everything has a counter, and that one role isn't absolutely farming the **** out of another with little or no consiquence.

Snipers are a very limited threat and very vulnerable. Their meta consists mostly of taking out other snipers, fallowed by engi turrets, then complacent players on the battlefield. Players who are conscience of when they are a potential targets will always be moving about, even if its just shifting about in a small area, and are difficult to be head shot at range. The key to their survival is to stay out of reach of anything dangerous. If they are within an infantry players effective range they are at a huge dissadvantage. That whole concept is what encorporates everything that a sniping role is all about. If you change that you make sniping rather pointless and shun a whole demographic of players. If you ask me they are quite balanced considering their extreme vulnerability and lack of sustainable fire. A meta game consisting of them being elusive and staying out of reach does not create imbalance in my opinion.

Btw stock rocket launchers and the grounder variants are extremely effective.

Little or no consequence huh? What do you classify sniping from 300m then? Also I'm sure we can both agree that it isn't good design for one thing to be it's own counter.

MY M77B CAN ONE SHOT HEADSHOT PEOPLE FROM 250M AWAY, SAME AS THE RAMS?


i applaud you SOE.

Key word there is farmed. If your getting farmed by a sniper from that range then its your fault. You would have to be walking out into the open and standing completely still repeatedly. That comment was in reference to things like the old zephyr and HE spam. There are plenty of counters as well. Other snipers, just about any vehicle, engi turrets can be effective but with risk, any class can flank them, if they get caught in close range engagement they have very little chance of winning, the stock rocket launchers for heavies are incredibly accurate and very capable. Really anything in the game.

I don't think I've every been killed by the same sniper twice in a single battle. If I'm equipped to kill one I do it, if not I ignore them and that choice almost never results in me dieing as I've taken next to no head shots from snipers just playing smart. If anything they get a body shot putting me at risk from dieing to another player, which does not fit your OHK complaint. There are plenty of ways to kill snipers, you just want one which eliminates the whole point of their role even existing.

I would be fine with snipers if they weren't a OHK. OHK weapons are just too much power given to players in a PVP game.

I'm rather confused. Why would you do this

Then do this?

SNIPER changes are COMPLETE bull-**** ...just w8 - ill tell you about it in video

One day i took a trip to VS Training, put a personal waypoint on an infantry and kept going away as far as i could see him. On a max rendering distance i could achieve with in-game settings menu, it was exactly 250m. Nevertheless, a few days ago i OHK a guy beyond my rendering distance - just because he was in the middle of the road spamming bullets with a MANA turret.

This looks all around awesome, especially the sniper rifles part. Don't listen to the whiners, snipers need to be dangerous.

COF increase for LMG sounds interesting, but my experience with TR LMG selection (don't have enough experience with the other factions' LMG to comment) says that they are not really good at range, so what they will be supposed to do after the change? High ROF, high mag size, low damage, low accuracy, long reload weaponry? Doesn't sound as something I would willingly choose for my loadout.

TMG-50 is okay at ranged firefights and has 167 max dmg profile with not that bad COF currently on live, so I'd imagine it will still work at what it does best, but will simply become more vulnerable at CQC. On the other hand, guns like T-16, Carv-S and Bull will need some extra 'oomph' in their stats somewhere, IMHO. Also, for the love of the holy hand grenade, give some more x2 scopes, please!

About that "Assault rifle hip fire weapons have had their hip fire bonus reduced. They still have higher hip accuracy than the standard assault rifles". TRV, for example, already has worse COF when compared to the default Cycler even with second lvl of laser sight on live already (if I remember right). Could you please clarify on this point?

Firstly, thanks for listening to player feedback on the Sniper changes. But personally i feel any sort of cap is without merit. The emphasis should be on education, if you die at 300m plus from a headshot either the guy taking the shot is incredibly skilled or you are doing something wrong. SOE should implement hints on the death screen as i suggested in this thread on page 2 (post in red):

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/unscheduled-death-screen.162116/page-2

here's the infiltrator snippet from the post made over there:

format: Class of the enemy - weapon of the enemy (your class/vehicle)

Infiltrator - bolt action sniper rifle (any foot soldier):

• Try not to stand still for long periods, it makes it easier for snipers to head shot you (if death is OHK)
• Attempt to use cover when enemy snipers are on the battlefield
• Spot enemy snipers so that your team mates can help you deal with the threat
• You can use light assault to scale terrain to clear out a snipers nest

i'm sure you guys could come up with some better examples, another alternative would be to add a reinforced helmet armor option as a trade off from nanoweave, flak and utility pouch available to all classes but the infiltrator. If it pisses people off enough then let them trade off to protect against it, at least then when you know you land an awesome headshot on someone they have paid for the privilege not just because you are 301 meters away from them.

I like that they removed scope sway from x4 scopes.

But lets talk about NS-7 PDW
It was the gun with the best accuracy.
It was my favorite.
It reminded my mp5 from counter strike 1.6

Why accuracy has been reduced for smgs??

please fix NS-7 PDW
Don't make any changes to this gun on live, please.

No, Hip-fire accuracy should be less preferred to aimed accuracy in every situation except within 10m or shotgun range.
In no scenario should you be able to reliably shoot someone over a building lengths away without scoping in.

Scoping? Whaaat? With smg????
I don't even use a scope on this gun.
Smg with scope looses its point.
Removing good hip accuracy from smg is like replacing original Lamborgini engine with Toyota Prius engine...
I don't care about 40+ meters. All I use it is 1-40 meters range. And with hip accuracy as it is right now on test server it is nooo gooood.