Infantry Rendering and Clientside Hit Detection

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Flashtirade, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. Flashtirade

    I was messing around as a solo lib in VR when it dawned on me that this was the perfect opportunity to test some thoughts I'd been having. The results listed here are directly copypasta'd from the video description.

    Testing results:
    0:24 - Control at ~100m:
    Targets render, hits register

    0:38 - Control at ~100m:
    Targets render, hits register

    1:35 - Control at ~200m:
    Targets render, hits register

    1:53 - Control at ~200m:
    Targets render, I missed

    2:10 - Control at ~200m:
    Targets render, I missed

    2:56 - Damage test at ~300m:
    Targets do not render initially, hits do not register until altitude fell below ~200m

    3:34 - Damage test at ~300m:
    Targets do not render, hits do not register

    3:53 - Damage test at ~300m:
    Targets do not render initially, hits do not register until altitude fell below ~150m

    4:17 - Damage test at ~250m:
    Targets render, hits register

    4:38 - Damage test at ~280m:
    Targets render, hits register

    4:50 - Damage test at ~290m:
    Targets render, hits register

    5:11 - Damage test at ~300m (accounting for angle to targets):
    Targets do not render until altitude fell below some unknown value, hits do not register until altitude fell below some unknown value
    Note: there were targets within render range that appeared properly at the start of the test.

    5:44 - Vision test at ~300m and following descent to ~100m:
    No targets rendered

    6:18 - Damage test at ~280m:
    Targets render, hits register

    6:56 - Damage test at ~400m, the maximum range of air-only and ground-only lock-on launchers:
    Targets do not render, hit registers on the sunderer

    7:14 - Damage test at ~470m, approaching the maximum range of the Striker
    Targets do not render, hits do not register

    7:29 - Damage test at ~300m:
    Targets do not render, hits do not register

    7:59 - Brief vision test at ~290m:
    Targets render

    8:27 - Damage and vision test at 370m:
    Targets do not render until altitude fell below some unknown value (definitely under 200m though), hits successful when the targets rendererd

    Interpretation of results:
    As expected, infantry does not render past 300m. It appears MAXes are classified as infantry, so the statement that MAXes render further out for vehicles is a lie.
    I was at first taken aback by the fact targets outside of render range CANNOT be damaged in any way. This made sense to me once I realized that this is clientside hit detection at work: you can't shoot a target you can't see. However, this means that vehicles CANNOT fire upon infantry until they are within 300m. This is well within the range of the air-only and ground-only lock-ons and the Striker.

    There is only one way to see targets beyond render range, and that is to spot them. I could not confirm this in these tests, but it does work. However, it is a relevant reminder that it is hard to spot targets that you cannot see.

    I suppose this is an adequate explanation for why libs wither in big engagements (they have to be within range of lots of AA in order to even shoot) and why people prefer the Dalton over the Zephyr (vehicles render further out). This also explains why armor vaporizes in those same big engagements, since much of it will die before it is within range to fire back.
    • Up x 2
  2. Flashtirade

    self bump

    Does no one want to discuss this?
  3. Kortan

    It's like this for a reason.
  4. Flashtirade

    I know that, I included the reason in the explanation section.

    What I'm asking for is a little discussion. Should this be kept the way it is? Fairness aside, is it balanced? What do people think?
    That sort of thing.
  5. Kortan

    Could be raised 100m, but no further.
  6. Goldoche429

    I'd like to see a better infantry render distance too but I think that would hit performance too much.
  7. Ripshaft

    If the server doesn't give you the information on the target, they cannot be affected by you. You've gotten carried away with supposition beyond that.
  8. deggy

    Should be raised to 500m because that's the locking range of the longest-range lock-on in the game.
    • Up x 1
  9. Stride

    Infantry rendering should be increased to 500 meters because of lock on ranges? I fail to see your logic or perhaps you are confusing infantry rendering ranges with vehicle rendering ranges?
  10. theholeyone

    He means it would be nice to shoot back at whatever can shoot at you...

    ...which of course it would be. Ideally all things would render, but that isn't possible with the technology. I think some render distance adjustments could be a huge buff to the lib; a gunship should be the one firing on targets while unseen, not the other way around.
  11. Flashtirade

    A work-around that doesn't require much coding on the devs' part is just to auto-spot people who are locking onto you. However, the issue is that spotting is for the entire faction: if you spot a guy, everyone on your team sees him.
  12. RHINO_Mk.II

    When there are a handful of infantry, they render at 300m out.

    When there's a godawful zergfest of infantry, you have to get within 50m of the ground for them to show up.

    It really kills the combined arms focus of the game.
    • Up x 1
  13. Flashtirade

    Funny thing about that.
    In my tests, targets that started from outside render range but then moved in (in this case I was falling really fast), they didn't render immediately. Instead it was about until 100-200m (falling from 300) when they started to appear. This means that the server doesn't instantly recognize and render infantry that are within render range, which makes sense. The server thinks "oh snap, he can see that guy, I have to draw him now," and there is some delay.

    What this means is that to get infantry to render properly at max distance, you have to be going relatively slowly so that a deathtrap doesn't just render in front or underneath you. However, moving that slowly is also a death sentence for vehicles, aircraft especially, so it's a catch-22.
    • Up x 1
  14. Death Genie

    I would like to see a bar to adjust the range at which you see enemy infantry, this allows peoples toasters (terrible computers) to still run the game effectively and would also allow me to snipe that stupid engineer on a turret that just dismounts his turret so we can no longer see him -.- oh and it also lets me actually use the terrain to my advantage as a sniper so that I can actually shoot people at that base 1000m away... 300m is far too close to be if you are that sniper getting all the headshots because people can shoot machine guns accurately at that range. (Before you rage at my machine gun statement I have tested it so shut up :D ty)
  15. Typhoeus

    Was already aware of this. AV turrets not rendering sucks aswell. Part of me wishes everyone would be able to see everything within 500 meters (ground vehicles, air units, engi turrets, max's and infantry) just to make things 100% fair on all sides. The idea of mlg in ps2 seems funny to me, but even more so when you consider this current huge advantage given to infantry.
  16. Flashtirade

    I've used the SAW rifle before.

    I really don't know how they could showcase this at MLG without it crashing.
  17. Stride

    I think you only have the technological tidbit half right. Obviously, if they can render vehicles past 500+ meters then if SOE wanted to they could easily make infantry render distances much larger but perhaps they are considering the balance of the game with lower end machines that can't handle rendering all the players in a 500+ meter radius. Who knows maybe SOE just plain doesn't want vehicles dominating infantry from such a vast distances.
  18. theholeyone

    Well yeh, of course they could code it to try that, but the network load, server load, and PC load would all be increased (likely beyond the limits of today's tech). I really doubt game balance is a reason not to render, it is however a reason to change render priority. Tbh I think render prioritising is quite simple at the moment, split into vehicle/infantry queues, class/vehicle based would be a lot nicer, and a lot less frustrating to play against I think. Currently rendering is a not issue for infantry, an moderate issue for vehicles, and quite an issue for aircraft. The game gets round this to a degree because the latter groups get faster and more able to retreat, but it would be nice to have the option of engaging who is shooting at us in aircraft.
  19. CrashB111

    Why? So infantry can kill vehicles that cannot even see them?

    They need to really buff the render ranges on infantry, nothing sucks more than losing a Tank to Lancer/AV turret spam from targets that aren't even rendering to you which also means that their missiles/trails don't render either. You just start to take damage with only the hit indicator as a sign of where it is.
  20. Kortan

    As opposed to having a lib flying too high for lock-ons? Farming anything and everything.