In defense of the HA's Instant-Win shield

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by M4L4CH1TE, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. Hiding in VR

    Actually, no one was "consulted". This was another "out of the blue", "No one asked for" nerf.

    The only official numbers we have are that HAs are "popular". We don't have any evidence suggesting they are over performing. The top infantry weapons are not HAs. The top players are not HAs and their best performing class is not HA. There was no forum demand for this nerf. Nerfing the Overshield is second only to the LA Flying ADS Nerf as most unnecessary change imo.

    Who are you trying to kid? I play a SMG Inf just as much as an HA and let me tell you it is a heck of a lot easier to get the drop on someone using that cloak than it is with any other class ability. Taking out HAs is no exception. Did you see the thread where an Inf claimed HAs Overshield was OP? The thread creator was laughed out of the forum!

    You have nothing, your numbers are wrong and your argument is as hollow as your insults.
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  2. Robertooooo

    And why would anyone use the adrenaline or NMG shield if they are forced to activate it beforehand? In that case resist is clearly the best option. So there is a risk that resist will be the only viable option.
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  3. boxdirty

    So please explain why not nerf maxes and shotguns both require no skill. All the facts you say that makes a HA player "op" is also on the max. Hell its even 1000x better. I have seen enough BR 1 getting 10-100 kill out of no where cause they spawned a max. Unskilled right? Eventhough most of the population of this game doesn't want them nerfed. Why? Cause they use them t ofarm with it. I will only agree with the HA nerf if Maxes and everysingle tank gets nerfed aswell. Owye HA are easy to kill their guns aren't that good compared to other guns anyway. I have seen enough HA die from a TRV or GR22 or a shotgun
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  4. RockPlanetSide2

    The problem is that this entire argument comes down to people wanting to win 1v1s versus not winning 1v1s... anybody can run circles around the issue... that is the entire issue.

    Anybody can bring up any other non-relevent BS, sugar coat side arguments, or just long-wind blather... the issue is about just being base-line better than other people before skill is factored in.

    Games like Street-Fighter have options for that... IN PRACTICE MODE... so you can challenge your friends in a handicap match... that does not belong in any FPS.
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  5. MKEYCKOR

    Resist shield does not need a ramp up time. It already encourages thinking before you use it. As for the other 2, I guess I don't get why this is only an issue NOW that needs to be changed. I understand the frustration of dying to something you think you should've killed but in my experience (which is something like 90% playtime as heavy assault over 1200 hours) the people I pop shield on, 180 and headshot kill are either terrible at aiming (missing half the shots they fire) or just body shotting me.

    You guys already nerfed all shield/suit slot synergy and got the game turned into a headshot arcade fest. If you actually utilized the fact that you can kill everyone in a split second by headshot ting in this game you!'do be better at killing and half these whine threads would go away.

    tl;dr: headshot or die, that's what you turned the game into. Heavy shield is fine, community in general sucks at shooters and aiming, therefore must nerf everything that hinders face roll ****gun/smg gameplay/poor accuracy.
  6. Paragon Exile

    I've made threads raging against those as well. The game would be better if these three things were toned down or removed.
  7. boxdirty

    don't forget anything else that can easly no brain one shot. So thats everysingle vehicle in the game.
  8. Paragon Exile


    Vehicles are different; they are hard to use proficiently and take resources, meaning you can't just whip them out. More importantly, they are meant to be used in combined arms, and a vehicle alone by itself will usually get gutted by expendable infantry.

    The MAX is an exception in that it is a pure "iwinlol" in any sort of serious fight, and it seriously disrupts the flow of infantry combat. In my opinion, it should be altered to have minimal offensive options, while being very difficult to take down. Ideally, it would be used as an 'infantry tank' that absorbs enemy damage while it leads a charge, wholly reliant on teammates to win its battles.
  9. Rift23

    That's because you're outfit's recruiting process sucks. Somebody who's BR 10 without a sub probably has as much if not more real experience than a Premium account at BR 30 but just happens to be gaining in-game exp faster. Or they just spend a lof time in a MAX/vehicle.

    Main reason I stay away from grindy-MMOs nowadays: people think level=skill.
  10. M4L4CH1TE

    Oh for heaven's sake Rift23. Go troll where someone cares.
    • Up x 1
  11. WarmasterRaptor

    • Up x 1
  12. Rift23

    Says the guy telling people to accept that the heavy assault is naturally better than them. And since you didn't say anything to the contrary, are you agreeing that your outfit's recruiting process sucks?
  13. Casterbridge


    Here's the problem, if we want to look at it from a pure 1v1 situation lets look at the balance, with no shield. While technically the HA will have their shield if the delay is for any significant amount of time (basically 2 seconds) it's going to be a none factor in most 1v1 fights.

    Carbines and ARs are better guns for duels than LMGs, they are easier to shoot and generally much more accurate and heck most have better kill time than LMGs as well. LMGs aren't horrible, but their real strength is that they carry more ammo, anywhere from 50 to 100 rounds compared to the 24 to 40 rounds carried by the other weapons. However the extra ammo is meaningless cause hey were talking 1 v 1 here right? So the HA already starts off with a disadvantage in one on one situations.


    Medics get AR, probably the best all around infantry guns in planetside, so they already outclass HA in a 1v1 with just looking at the guns, now throw in the medic heal, which is also instant, and so now the Medic is shooting a more accurate and generally more deadly gun than the HA and the medic can extend their life slightly in the actual fight with a self heal. So HA looses 1v1. There's also the fact that after the fight the medic can always heal back up to full life with no resource cost, and go and heal and revive others.

    LA gets the carbine, while not as good overall as the AR, still a much better weapon in most 1v1 scenarios than the LMG, also has access to speed boost which can be of some advantage in 1v1 fight. So in a straight up fight, the LA wins, but what's this the LA doesn't have to fight straight up, they can easily get into flanking positions so they don't have to deal with 1v1 at all. Now while I'm not saying an LA can't use some adjustment to make them more valuable team players, in a lone wolf 1v1 style, they are just fine.

    The engineer uses carbine same as the LA but without the mobility, so a straight up fight with no shielded HA they have a slight advantage, they also can lay mines, repair equipment, continually refill their ammo and use a turret, which will present a problem for any HA other than a NC Phoenix coming from an off angle. In a pure 1v1 though it's probably the closes fight, carbine does beat LMG overall though.

    Next up everyone's favorite infiltrator. Here we are going to mainly use the SMG, while all classes can use the SMG it's mainly the tool of the infiltrator first, at a distance it's a problem and here the infiltrator will loose to the HA, but hey guess what that nifty little cloak gives the ability for clever infiltrators to close the distance to CQC range from behind, if that happens the HA looses pure and simple.

    HA could pull the rocket, but eh that's a risky (and somewhat stupid) maneuver if your not running with the launcher out you couldn't switch in time, if you had it and shoot and hit you win, but you miss you die.

    How does the HA counter these disadvantages in a 1v1 fight? Well it used to be the shield...
    • Up x 2
  14. Hiding in VR

    And you refuse to get your head round the issue that other classes have abilities that give them advantages AT THE START of that 1v1. While Heavies have an ability that gives them an advantage AT THE END of that 1v1.

    Given TTK in this game and the current LAG issues, having the advantage at the start is what you realy want. Heck, I have seen half a dozen threads complaining about the delay before X function kicks in, whether thats the self-heal or some other power, when the delay is not part of "game balance" its just LAG.
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  15. Bennybones


    The LMGs are inferior to carbines and ARs in practically every way except for ammo capacity. The whole idea of suppression is almost laughable in this game so when comparing LMGs to say AR's the AR will win out in every situation, including long range. LA and Medic have access to C4 and LA also have flash grenades. The difference in effect between a flash grenade and concussion grenade is minimal, either will do the job assuming the squad is moving together. And when a flash/conc is useful you're under 40m, where a carbine is superior to an LMG. Literally the only thing that doesn't leave the HA at a disadvantage in such a situation is their shield.

    So what's left is the shield and the rocket launcher. Now the rocker launcher is gold, no doubt about it. But due to their inferior weaponry and other classes able to carry out the same duties when it comes to breaching I think you will find that the HAs role will have diminished and it will be less assault and more of a tank buster. I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing. But I think you're overestimating the LMG, C4 and concussion grenades while underestimating the shield. Other classes can do the same things as good or better. The only thing that sets the HA apart and makes them potentially superior at certain roles is the rocket and the shield. Remove one of these and you will have a class which will see its functionality reduced.

    I don't think anything will actually come from this change, I doubt it'll make any noticeable difference to most of us. But if it does I think the HA will become more anti-vehicle and pulled in smaller numbers or in specific situations. Squads will see a lot more medics as they will have more benefits than a HA with a gimped shield.
  16. boxdirty

    Tanks aren't hard to use and get kills with neither are battle gals and libs. With the amount of resources and realising your with 2 people so lets double resource gain and the cap. You can sit in tanks all day with below average skill level
  17. Moz

  18. Hiding in VR

    True I suppose. I see people now in bases that are under zerg attack, swap to a HA, fire off loads of rockets, then swap back to their "favoured" class. I don't really call that playing the class though.
  19. Ivalician

    Copy pasting my response from a different thread:

    Again, heavy assault shield delay is not necessary. The actual problem with heavy assaults is they are too versatile. For many players, they are the defacto general purpose, anti-infantry, anti-vehicle class. Even MAX suits need to specialize to be effective.

    Another issue is that, from what I've heard, many Planetside mechanics were based off of Battlefield. However, one glaring oversight was made: RTK essentially doubled while magazine sizes were not increased to compensate. With thirty rounds of 143 damage ammo, a good player can at most reasonably expect three kills per mag, unless you're some type of headshot wizard ( I like to think I'm pretty good about the whole headshot business ). Run into two heavy assaults in a row, and you're down to two kills per mag. This is HUGELY limiting for aggressive players. But the heavy assault has MINIMUM 50 rounds. That's frontline staying power.

    Additionally, heavy assaults, of standard infantry, have the worst mobility in the game, tied with engineers, and in fact, possibly worse than engineers as to use their special ability, heavy assaults suffer movement penalties. That said, between having a shield w/ movement penalty and nothing at all, I'd take the shield. The whole engineer thing I'll get to later, but the reason why mobility matters is because in any FPS game, the ability to efficiently get around is paramount to success. Better mobility permits you to engage at advantage and escape firefights that have gone south with greater consistency. Infiltrators can cloak, light assaults can fly and while medics have the same mobility while engaging, they can HOT with no movement penalty while escaping. A heavy assault has almost no capability to reset a bad firefight whereas most other classes can.

    So what I'd much rather see, as opposed to a stupid blanket nerf that people on this forum are asking for without taking into consideration all the consequences, is the role of heavy assaults narrowed down so they are not the same, general purpose infantry they are now. Along those lines, it would also be nice if the role of engineers was expanded from the current, essentially purely support to an actual, combat role. Kudochop suggested moving rocket launchers from heavy assault to engineers.

    This change neatly expands the role of engineers giving more people reasons to play engineer ( because honestly, even if heavy assaults get a shield nerf, engineers are still going to be the very bottom of the food chain and anybody of sound mind is still not going to play a frontline, assault engineer ), which is good because the current, suggested blanket nerfs aren't really going to balance out class favoritism except to make combat medics the new favourite class. Additionally, given SOE's amazing history of ******* massive nerfs, I'd much rather see a slightly overpowered class than a class completely nerfed into ground.

    Seriously guys, consider that last bit for a moment. What are the chances that any blanket balance attempts SOE attempts will actually work out and not be absolutely ****** hamfisted? Five percent? Eight percent? I'd rather not roll on that one.

    Instead of a rocket launcher, perhaps heavy assaults can equip a second class of grenade ( with perhaps a cooldown between switching between grenade types because concussion grenade + HE grenade would be a fairly broken combo ).

    As for the heavy assault overshield, add a ramp up time instead of an activation delay. Shield starts at 50% effectiveness immediately, then ramps up to 100% effectiveness over 667 ms.
  20. raw

    Yes, like that.

    I am not ignoring anything, I was commenting on your point, that role based asymmetric 'balance' has nothing to do whether the game is an FPS or an MMO(FPS), it almost always makes sense.

    How much this applies to PS2 is open to debate. :eek: