Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by axiom537, Jan 24, 2014.
not to be the bare of bad news, but tanks promote kill farms
I mean lets be real here.
KIll farming the only reason to play the game technically, no real metagame, like the old man buzzcutpsycho said, so no big news there
The game has reached a critical mass of kill farmers such that it makes playing for objectives burdensome, and also counterproductive for accumulating certs. I've been grinding certs and kills for two months through farming, because otherwise if I try to play for objectives I'll be hounded by the farmers and/or make squat for certs.
I've gotten off topic, but OP is right in the sense that it will be the nail in the coffin for objective play.
I like the idea of tying them to capture and defense ribbons.
I do not like the other idea, because it is way too open to debate and outright flame wars what a "non cheese" weapon is. To some, nothing short of a sniper rifle quickscope e-arena would be "noncheese" and to others it is the definition of cheese.
Are you willing to answer the question of what exactly you would call "metagame" or are you just saying the buzzword to sound dissatistifed like all the cool kids?
Continental locking? Advanced resource routing? What?
Your pictures remind me why the developers should be focusing more on the resource revamp to stop tank spam rather than putting implants in the game. Lol in the first picture I think there around 10 stock Vanguards by the looks of it.
Not sure about this.
Its about revenues, therefore the consumable part.
Most of us hate this and it would both increase farming (if even possible) and cheating as most stuff the implants are supposed to provide, cheats can do.
So it will be easier and more tempting to cheat if radar enhancements or range finders are part of the official game. Both from a competitive angle and in terms of difficulty to identify as cheats.
I don't think the Devs like it themselves. I guestimate they have to.
@Devs: don't ever put in awareness implants. Really bad idea. Look at Daddys KDR/ SPM. With awareness implants ESP/ Radar cheats will become much more common
No im not bcp, but i always support the video he did when he left the game, i never really cared about his streams, but he got everything right on that video about 6 months ago, this game needs more tough love, otherwise it will probably have a shorter life then PS1, funny enough because they dont want to add things from ps1
I would hope implants are rewarded for more than just killing players. Support is a vital role too. A zerg mob can be sustained without a single AMS via its dedicated medics and engineers when HA are doing what they're supposed to do: blow up armored targets (everyone's got a rifle, infantry killing IS NOT the HA's primary intention.)
Though really, I wish they'd just make it a selected slot item like in PS1 and be done with it. It's the fairest method. What we're looking at sounds more like temporary perks. Not saying that's bad, just that underperformers will generally fall behind and underperform even more. As if this game doesn't have enough problems convincing players to stay.
Capturing bases is not entertaining but fighting over them is. SOE are right to try to direct people towards fun and engaging gameplay to make them want to play more.
It'd be dumb to re-invent a reward system and balance it when XP already does that.
So, problem solved: tie loot to XP.
Earn 10 xp per repair tick? That's a 10 / 10,000 chance at loot.
Earn 1,000 xp from a vehicle kill? That's a 1,000 / 10,000 chance at loot.
[only base XP gain matters, before modifiers]
Why throw away all the work that's gone into balancing XP gains? The work has already been done deciding just how much of a reward each task is worth.
That doesn't solve the unintended consequence of turning this into a kill farm grind fest. It is already a limited kill farm grind fest, since it is much more effective to earn certs from killing, then capturing or defending objectives. If we add another incentive on top of the xp/cert reward for killing players, then those tactics and weapons that maximize kill farming will be further reinforced.
This system is also going to further promote 4th factioning, especially since the top rewards will not be available for purchase and only gained by winning events. And this sort of loot system also favors those that have most amount time to play this game or have the best K/D.
I agree with you it is dumb to re-invent the reward loot system. The easiest and most fair implementation of Implants is to make them non-consumable and purchasable via Certs/Station Cash, just like weapons.
I am all for SOE making money on this game, but this whole system has a mild stink to it. SOE here are some really easy ways to make money....Allow us to buy different mods for our scopes, different colored lasers, different colored target markers, different styles of target markers, customizable weapons.
The relationship between kill XP and capture/defend XP could stand to be tweaked, sure, but that's one isolated little tweak. Whereas if you don't connect implants to XP gains, you're talking about creating an entirely new reward system entirely from scratch!
And sure, players "farm" certs, and are actually quite bad at knowing how to farm certs properly (for example, I'm pretty sure my ~666 score/min is 2-10 times higher than anyone who thinks Bio Labs are a good place to earn XP.) You're not going to change that by having implants be some entirely different reward structure.
So the best solution is clearly:
Implant loot chance is based on XP gain. So repairing for 10xp provides a very small chance, killing someone for 100xp provides a (10x) better chance, and killing a vehicle for 1000xp provides a 100x better chance.
Improve the display of XP. (So farming concerns disappear, as players better understand the true value of things.) Two of the larger possibilities:
Improve the display of XP when it's earned: repair ticks are tiny/brief, kills are regular, vehicle kills are BIG and stick around longer, and alert gains are HUGE and persist long enough to notice.
Add a bar or pie chart somewhere which breaks down XP by type. This way players can mouseover one half and see that 10 kills resulted in 1000 XP (50%) and gosh, they only killed one vehicle that session by that one vehicle was worth the entire other half of the pie chart! This would be done by session or by "last 10k XP earned".
It might work better on the stats website than in-game, but that sort of distances itself from the average player (the player who needs help understanding the relationship).
Then again, if it's on the stats website players could look up high scoring players like myself and see "Oh wow, like 60-80% of this guy's ~666 score/min is from vehicle kills, maybe Bio Labs are crap after all."
Improve any XP balance issues. It will fix both XP farming and implant farming, because they're now connected. Two birds, one stone.
Capture/Defense not worth enough? Increase it. Simple.
If that's not enough, implement a Planetside 1-like capture/defense system where contribution is modified by enemy presence (beating a massive zerg = massive capture XP, while ghost-capping is just worth the base value.)
Motive to get better is what drives most players who stick with any game for longer time period.
I think the reason why BCP left is mainly because he reached the skill ceiling and there was nothing left for him or his outfit to try out hence game stopped being fun. What players like him need is proper competitive environment games like Battlefield or LoL have, not public TDM game like Planetside 2.
What kinds of things do you do to get such a high score/min? I have not been playing that long and bio labs with my medic is the best thing I've found so far, but it only gets around 200-300 score/min and bio lab fights don't last that long to keep it up.
Well to be fair it's probably around 333 base score/min (+100% from subscription and boost.)
The simple explanation is it's vehicle kills.
Mostly I fly an ESF, followed by Liberator, followed by infantry classes, followed by MBT, followed by Lightning.
On DA Stats you can see that my highest score/min comes from ESF, then Prowler, then Lightning, then Infantry. The Liberator is mixed up in there too, but the 1484 SPM for the Shredder is very misleading since most of my time in a solo Liberator is spent in the TankBuster, which has a lot lower SPM. You'd need to do a weighted average to find my true Lib SPM.
If there are enemy vehicles somewhere to be killed, then being a vehicle yourself and killing them is the highest SPM you can hope to achieve.
Very few exceptions exist, but occasionally an AV MAX or AV turret will be a lower-risk way of making vehicle kills.
Killing other ESFs as an ESF is the fastest XP
Killing tanks by "backstabbing" them in rear armor with rocket pods is the second fastest XP
Killing sundies is lower SPM than the other two, but if the skies are clear I'll often kill sunderers before tanks because I don't play purely for SPM but for winning fights (and a Sunderer is the single most important vehicle on the battlefield in that regard.)
If my vehicles all get on cooldown, chances are I've been picking some pretty lousy fights (because it means I screwed up ~4 times in a row by losing my ESF, Lib, MBT, and Lightning.)
If it's not a vehicle fight, I settle for infantry killing.
Naturally if these infantry are outdoors I tend to punish that mistake as a vehicle (viper or solo shredder lib being two of the best tools.)
But if I can't use a vehicle against them, in indoor or high-cover fights MAX (826) is my highest SPM followed by Infiltrator (651), Medic (641), Light Assault (603), and Heavy Assault (489).
Offtopic for a bit: With weapon accuracy, if a weapon hits reliably at medium range you start to use it at long range and the average accuracy falls -- conversely if a weapon sucks at medium range, you start to use it only at close range and the average accuracy rises. The result? Weapons with good or bad accuracy actually tend to be surprisingly close when you look at actual effective accuracy stats.
Why is that relevant? Well the same applies to classes. With LA in particular, the situations where the class shines are really rare, but I stopped using it in the bad situations so its SPM is still relatively high because it's pretty great SPM in those CQC tower fights where it shines. But the class overall sucks because of a lack of utility and it's just generally not as useful.
Oh wow, long post. Guess I'll stop there. Sorry was typing it up on a laptop while watching a show and not paying attention to length.
Instead of implants for kills, they should reward you with some kind of universal currency, based on a specific amount of experience. We can call them serts.
The game is already far too heavily based on 'farming' and 'KDR' which are part of the reason there is so much vehicle spam. People naturally take the paths of least resistance to progress their characters and maintain the status symbol of a high KDR even if they cheesed it. The rewards for actually being a team player, capping objectives, and participating in alerts pale in comparison to what you can do with a tank in a good location.
Ugh, then I'd have to sit and wait on all the bloody cap timers instead of moving on when the battle is decided.
Honestly, I don't think Implants will make "kill-farming" any worse... It already is that way because certs.
what are implants?
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