Implants: Unforeseen consequences and the SPM disease

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by GrizzV, May 27, 2014.

  1. Mustarde

    I get what the OP is concerned with. An energy drain over time sets us up for a sort of "minimum SPM" mentality while playing. However, this has long been an influence on the game, simply due to the cert system and the need to grind your way to the next upgrade or weapon. Implants increase that pressure but not much.

    I've been taking a rather casual approach to implants. I looked the other day and found that I have 48 chargers in reserve, and I've had auto-refill on the entire time. To the OP, I say this: if you want to have fun with low spm activities, don't let implants stop you. Just do it and enjoy the game and don't worry about it. You will find that your favorite activities are still viable with or without implants.
  2. Axehilt

    Before implants: A low-value playstyle.
    After implants: A low-value playstyle.

    Before implants: A low-value playstyle.
    After implants: A low-value playstyle.

    Before implants: A valuable, highly-rewarded playstyle!
    After implants: A valuable, highly-rewarded playstyle!

    Skyguards are a fantastic weapon for generating XP. Given my very high overall SPM, it's significant to note they're my ~5th highest source of XP.

    Before implants: A valuable, but under-rewarded playstyle.
    After implants: A valuable but under-rewarded playstyle.

    While not related to implants, making kills near your own sunderer should certainly provide a little extra bonus XP (much like fighting at a capture point provides bonus XP.)

    Also the sunderer driver themselves should be earning more XP for each spawn, because score should closer reflect the value you're adding to battle.

    Before implants: A valuable, strongly-rewarded playstyle!
    After implants: A valuable, strongly-rewarded playstyle!

    A significant portion of my high overall SPM comes from my success going for the heart of the enemy (their vehicles, especially sunderers.)

    In summary, the game is really close to rewarding players based on their actual value right now. If you want to be less valuable to play "for fun" then you were going to be under-rewarded before, and you're under-rewarded now, so nothing has changed with implants.[/quote]
    • Up x 1
  3. Revanmug

    The reality is that if you spend more time walking around rather than fighting, you don't need implants.

    Hell, you don't really need then even during fight. I haven't use one since they patch them in. Amusingly, the only implant I would use non-stop would be clear-vision for my MAX to protect against stun nade but it doesn't work for them. :(
  4. Danath

    Can't find where I can see my SPM with the Skyguard, but is my #1 in total score despite awufully low K/D :D
    Still, guarding your sundy or keeping your galaxy alive is not very rewarding yet important :<
  5. Axehilt

    It's visible on DasAnfall's stats site (here) and you can just search for your character in the top right, then when you've found it it's in the list of weapons (which you can then sort by SPM).
  6. Eyeklops

    I agree.
  7. Degenatron

    My problem with your post is the problem I have with almost every post like it:

    You've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about the problem and virtually NO time thinking about a solution. Don't come with a problem unless you also bring a solution to the table as well.

    Another issue I have with your post is that it is simply a long-winded "We need an implant toggle button" post, which have already been posted numerous times and I just summed up in under ten syllables.

    Now, I'm going to copy-paste my response to this:

    The reason for the consumable aspect is to drum up revenue. SOE is a business. Businesses try to make money. The idea here is to build a system that gently nudges people to spend money on a continuing basis WITHOUT having to continually invest developer time. So, if you want people to BUY implant power, you need to make it consume that power quickly so that players have to work real hard to keep their implants powered, go without implants for periods of time, or PAY to power their implants continuously.
    If they made implants permanent with no consumable aspect, or if they made them "self-sustaining", they would have been right back to square one. Everyone gets the implant they want and then what? Nothing happens. SOE is back to having to craft some other cosmetic, or weapon, or system which requires another one-time purchase. And over all, that is a losing proposition because you don't recoup your investment costs.

    You can easily supplement your power level by spending real money - drop 40 bucks and you can sneak around all day. Or you can run without implants and save up your power cells. You have options that allow you to play your way. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, but I'm playing devil's advocate in simply saying that they haven't taken away your ability to play the WAY you want, but merely limited WHEN you can play your way.

    Finally, THIS is what a constructive post about the implant system actually looks like:

    Refining the Implant System
    • Up x 1
  8. Gearlock

    I sort of disagree in kind of a weird way but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to describe the difference.

    Energy drain add's a...cost to the time I spend in game, I guess? Let me just give an example.

    No Implant: I spend 15 minutes getting my *** handed to me in a spawn room and barely scratch any xp out during that time, you know what, no big deal, it happens. I missed the opportunity for some certs, sure. I 'lost' certs in that regard, but...

    With an implant: Now that 15 minutes not only net me 0 certs, but COST me energy. I've gone backwards, in some regard. My time with an implant now has a cost (whether it be certs or station cash) associated with it. Sure, I get the chargers for free, but those chargers have a cert/SC value.

    So now with that stress I'm going to question, every single time I spawn, whether to use a 'significant' in game feature or not.

    I think it's more than just "Meh, so you want a higher score and more certs, what's really changed??"

    Now failure to keep a consistent score has a cost, is the best way I can think to put it.

    I'm not entirely opposed to the system just trying to point out that yes, many of us want max certs per minute sometimes, but now when that score starts to drop it has a cost associated with it now when using implants. That's all.
  9. FrontTowardEnemy

    Nailed it. It's bad game design. Period.

    Know what game had a well designed implant system? PLANETSIDE 1. Go figure.

    It's stuff like the implant implementation that makes me convinced that the devs aren't stupid, they're just jerks. Why else would they create such a game design?
  10. Paragon Exile

    So you're mad that classes/playstyles that do very little for their team aren't rewarded enough for you to keep expensive implants running 24/7?

  11. GrizzV

    This thread went way over your head little one.

    My point was not to provide solutions, that's what soe has game designers for. I was just wondering if people see the obsession with spm, recently added to by energy, as a problem.

    I do. I think that while xp gain is relatively fair, there are many playstyles that ARE useful that yield low spm, and with energy, now pay a cost.

    I have had a huge impact on fights as a lone wolf sniper and as the guy that hung back to defend the sundy, all of which would now cost energy if I wanted implants. Truth is, I don't need implants, I get that, but seeing as they're the new BIG thing, I SHOULD want them.

    Their inadequacies make them sometimes undesirable, which imo, is a questionable design.

    As someone pointed out above, before, if a playstyle was low spm, I wasn't penalized for it. Now, if I use an implant, technically I pay for it.

    With the community clearly so divided on the matter, I doubt we'll see any reworks anytime soon.
  12. Axehilt

    He didn't nail it though.
    • The XP gained from "fun" vs. Useful activities hasn't changed.
    • It's just with implants, you will additionally increase the Uptime Percentage of implants.
    • Implants aren't very powerful, so even if you somehow had 0% uptime, you wouldn't miss out on much.
    So the only legitimate complaint about implants is that they are weak.
    By extension of being weak, the common arguments against implants (usually based on uptime percentage (this thread), or "money-grabbing") hold no weight. If something is very weak, why complain that you only get 75% uptime for free? Why does that even matter? They're weak.
    Would you complain if they made it so you can't drive a flash 25% of the time unless you paid? Of course not, because flashes are so weak that you can (and generally should) play the game entirely without them without handicapping yourself in the slightest.
    I just wish people would actually think through the arguments they've seen others make, before parroting them.
  13. Paragon Exile

    Obsessions with doing better have existed for tens of thousands of years. The sudden emergence of a relatively benign mechanic in a video game isn't going to change that appreciably. Everyone, unless they are just dicking around, is trying to do their best and improve; that's sort of the point of the game.

    The benefits from most implants are marginal at best, some being almost useless. You're hardly sacrificing anything.

    And tell me, aside from your OP's "snipers keep them anxious" (absolute BS by the way), name me a low SPM activity that is also useful please. You can't. The two are antagonistic concepts. If you're helping, you're getting score, if you're not, tough. There are a few exceptions, like allies getting credit for killing vehicles with your explosives and such, but those are bugs.

    You mean the loathed bush wookiees that plague every game? Thanks but no thanks; I'd take a teammate with an accurate AR or LMG covering our six over some idiot griefer any day. The snipers who know what they're doing, and actually help (like Mustarde) are in the thick of it (within 100 M) supporting, not hanging back like a ****** and farming a few headshots which the enemies just ignore.

    If you're in a situation where defending the Sundy is actually needed, you won't be sitting on your ***. You'll actually be fighting enemies.

    Don't use them constantly, use them during alerts or ops with your outfit like everyone else who is sane. Don't fault them for something they never tried to be.

    I can run a level 1 implant with just my dropped chargers indefinitely. A higher level one is obviously going to need more power, which is why SOE gave you the choice of either A) using them intermittently B) Buying chargers with certs or C) Buying chargers with SC.

    They're supposed to not be self-sustaining at higher levels, otherwise the whole implementation wouldn't make SOE any money.

    You still aren't penalized. And if you use an implant, you do so knowing it comes with strings attached.

    I'd not take the appearance of the forums for anything; the real important stuff is in statistics.
    • Up x 1
  14. Degenatron

    I take issue with the statement "that's what SOE has game designers for". That certainly does not stop people, including yourself, from second guessing thier decisions.

    People have been obsessing over KDR and SPM since launch. Implants make no difference in that arena.

    Thier "inadequacies" is a direct result oof community feed-back. Just read through the Implants Roadmap Thread for solid proof of that.

    You know the old saying "You can't make all of the people happy all of the time." That seems to be the case here.

    Again, I will point to my ideas on improving the implant system - but the general rule of thumb to remembered in these discussions is that SOE needs to monetize the system without it being P2W. And while the obvious concensus is that people want to have the implants off when they aren't actively using them, that means that the drop rate would need to be significantly slowed.
  15. BillHaverchuck

    I love regeneration Implants because they allow me to play with mines instead of medkits. However I run dry of energy with Tier 2,3 Implants.
  16. Flapatax

    If the implants system discourages the play styles you've described I consider it a fringe benefit.

    You don't always need to be running a T3, and even a quadriplegic should be able to keep a T1 up.
  17. BoomBoom4You

    I have premium and I have recycled so many implants into ultra chargers that I'll never ever have to worry about running out of charge. So if you're premium, that should be enough -- you should never run out of chargers if you recycle your implants for chargers. I mean, I don't even think about the charge. I don't care, I have an infinite supply so long as I recycle implants.

    If you're not premium, then it's a little harder, but I find it hard to believe it's not possible to generate enough implants and chargers to sustain an implant.