Impetus change suggestions

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Tnsr, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Tnsr

    This of course is for all the long range semi automatic rifles.

    I lately use the Impetus more and more. Not because it is a good weapon, I do it because it is exactly the other way round. Semi automatics are weak anyway, but the Impetus laps them easily in that regard.
    On the other hand it gets the very best out of me. I completely changed my style of playing the Infiltrator to suit the gun, you need to learn the exact shooting frequency for different enemy distances and your aiming must be on an epic scale to use it in short ranges. It's just challenging and frustrating at the same time. The Impetus switches between BAM IN YOUR FACE and the worst gun of the game in its effectiveness in just a few seconds. It makes you smile and hate it.

    So what I would like to see to be changed:
    When an Infiltrator takes a weapon into his hand, it should be a precision tool.
    Velocity should be highered from 500 to 550 to match the speed of the standard semi automatic sniper rifle so we don't need to lead our aim so much but can be more spot on if we can't hold down the trigger. That is what basicly all semis should be like. Autos are spam and semis more precise, bullet speed is one important part to achive this. Actually the Impetus is the same gun as the Gauss SPR, so why not the same velocity? Does a missing scope make a gun slower?
    CoF and CoF bloom should be nearly 0 when ADS even when we are moving. An Infiltrator is a sharpshooter and he should know how to handle a single shot gun in that regard. It seriously is superdumb to have a gun where bullets can miss your enemy in short range even when you ADS just because of the CoF bloom. We have the lowest hp and yet you force us to stand completely still in short range fights? Come on, SOE...
    CoF and CoF bloom for hip firing should be lowered a bit. Right now you barely hit a bullet in hip fire, even if the enemy fills almost your complete monitor (no joke!). That's ok if we can't hit that much using hip fire with this gun, but give us a fair chance at least. The gun comes with no scope attached, so it is ment to be used in ranges from no to 4x scopes, CQC and short range sometimes requires fast hip fire if an enemy comes around the corner and you are suddenly right in front of him. You can easily miss all bullets in hip even in supershort ranges. Why no lasersight?
  2. Tnsr

    Not a single OLOLOL OP reply?
    That must be a first, time to suggest it on the ideas subforum :)

    Oh, and I forget to mention that for precision shooting the red dot on the scopes must be way smaller than it is currently. 1x and 2x scopes on the Impetus are far worse than no scope at all to aim for the head of an enemy.
  3. ThElement078

    You can't have the best of all worlds. The Impetus is meant to be a Medium range weapon, more of a DMR that a sniper rifle. So this isn't supposed to be as precise as other sniper rifles. Making it have Good hipfire and super high bullet velocity makes it OP. It must be balanced and not be better than other sniper rifles in every aspect. Yes it may need slightly better hip fire, but more muzzle velocity makes the Gauss SPR useless in every way. And you definitely cannot have zero or nearly zero CoF bloom when moving. Once again, it needs to be balanced. If you want a more mobile semi-auto rifle for infiltrator, pick the Shadow semi-auto scout rifle. Better hip fire, less CoF bloom and faster ADS spread (i think?), bassicially every thing you are asking for exept for bullet velocity. It even has a faster RoF. The tradeoff however is the lower damage at range. IMO, the Impetus is one of the BEST inf weapons, due to the high damage and high close-mid and occationally long range capabilities. (3-shot kill at any range)
  4. MrIDoK

    I use a KSR-35, TR's Impetus.
    No lasersight is honestly ok for me, worse hipfire is the tradeoff for not choosing the semi-auto scout rifle.

    But the cone of fire... it's stupidly high. Let's look at some hard data about that, i'll compare the semi-auto sniper with the semi-auto scout rifle:
    - cone of fire while standing still is 0 for the sniper and 0.1 for the scout. While moving it's 0.55 and 0.25.
    this is ok, the scout rifle is superior when moving ads but the sniper rifle is better when standing still.
    - cone of fire while standing still and hipfiring is 6.5 and 3. While moving is 6.75 and 3.5.
    this instead is a bit silly, i understand that the sniper rifle should be inferior while hipfiring, but given that the scout also has the ability to mount a laser sight the difference between the two is huge in this regard.
    - cone of fire bloom per shot is 1 and 0.125.
    now, this is another silly thing. Yes, the sniper rifle has better damage, but it can't put 3 shots in the same spot at 50 meters regardless of your aim. It's 8 times the bloom of the scout rifle. 8 freaking times.

    So, my suggestions are:
    reduce the hipfire cof to 4/4.5;
    reduce the cof bloom per shot to 0.375 (still 3 times the scout rifle's cof bloom);

    Nothing else. Just give us the ability to actually use the rifle hipfiring at more than 1 meter from the enemy and don't make the random cone of fire screw us over even when we actually manage to keep our sight on target regardless of enemy movement and flinching.


    His requests are fair, he doesn't want a good hipfire, he wants a decent hipfire. I trialed the scout rifle and i don't want such a "good" hipfire, it would be unfair, but i'd like to be able to reliably hit something at 5 meters without being forced to aim down the sight.

    And the "super high bullet velocity" he is asking for is 550 m/s. The current is 500 m/s. But i see your point and i agree, the Gauss SPR would have only a slight advantage at range thanks to the optics, but it would lose at every range beside long range. So yeah, the bullet speed can be left alone in my opinion.


    In conclusion, the semi-auto sniper rifles are good weapons that get screwed over by the random cof mechanic and that need a slight increase in hipfire accuracy to at least have a fighting chance when not ads.
  5. Tnsr

    My main concern really was the CoF when ADS. It is stupid to have a weapon that can easily miss all bullets in short range while ADS. That's just not fair in any way. An Infiltrator, a sharpshooter, should hit if the aiming is right, that's what semi autoamtics are for.

    The problem with the CoF while moving is the fact that we have less hp than the other classes. In EVERY other game light armour/low HP normally means this class is the one that shines with movement (speed). Being forced to stand still in close range while you are the weakest class anyway is like a death trap to the Infiltrator. Yes, there is also the Semi Scout Rifle, but the Impetus comes with no scopes and can be equipped with those that are suitable for CQC, short an mid ranges, the basic idea must have been to give us an alternative to the Semi Scout Rifle, it has sway, it is harder to use but it hits harder, BUT both are used in the same combat situations. And that is clearly also short range. This means we must tune this weapon so it is at least useable at those ranges and we have to eliminate the luck factor if you kill or die while using the Impetus and alike weapons of the other empires. I think my aiming is fine, but if an enemy approaches me in short ranges it doesn't matter if hip or ads, more than 80% of the cases I am dead. Not to forget the incredible flinch mechanics of the NC, I can easily be outsniped in medium ranges by spray and pray, even by LMGs, I have NO chance of hitting anything while someone shoots and me and hits once a while.
    That's where I am coming from, I want to have a more reliable weapon that may be harder to use than other weapons, you need skill to use it, but if you can and your aim is fine, it should hit and kill the enemy, without any luck involved.
  6. Jorge De Paques

    I've already posted a thread about too high CoF bloom on Impetus and co. No responce. But Soe finally fixed double scope on KSR35. Also, They wont make 550 bullet speed on Impetus. KSR35 used to have 550, but now they nerfed it to 500.
    Don't forget that semi-scouts have much shorted ADS time at least twice. Semi-snipers are too slow if someone jumps into you in CQC. I've tested HSR1 with no scopes and it was good enough to hit people, but not to kill.
  7. Stncold

    I like the Impetus but I really only pull it out in Bio labs.

    In most other situations the Impetus is good in, the Longshot with a 6x-8x is better.

    Now if the Impetus could use HS/NV, it might be a lot better. I find it many situations where the Impetus could be good there's a lot of smoke spam or explosions causing smoke, and at that point I just use like the AC-11X or EM6 or spam UBGL.
  8. VoidC

    Medium range sniper rifles could really have some love.

    Why no nice exclusive scopes and sights (also for scout rifles)?
    - reflex sights with cross hair and fine mil dots (2/4 x)
    - low magnification scopes (2x) with fine mil dot, so one can decide scope or reflex sight.
    - 4x scopes with fine mil dot
    - 4x NV/NS (2x NV/NS exclusive for scout rifles, and 6x NV/NS exclusive for long range sniper rifles)

    + 50 m/s velocity (or HVA ???), I see also no reason why long range semi sniper rifles have not velocity of 600 m/s.
    Flash suppressor
    Laser Dot, for descent hip fire (scouts should be better here in every way)

    They should also check / fix Phantoms reload time (the longest from all semi sniper rifles: 3.6s/4.6s)
  9. MrIDoK

    I'd really like to have more variants of sights, especially fine ones for 2x and 3.4x optics.

    About NV sights... i don't think that there should be more of them, their range is pretty short. But we could use non-IR based night vision scopes:
    They only amplify light without any other aid like highliting things nearby and lighting up people and vehicles with obviously a lot more range than the IR/NV sight.
    So in the end we will be able to use our rifles at medium and long range during the night, but we won't have any advantage during the day, where such scopes instead will be almost blindingly bright.

    The speed increase is, well, a bit unneeded. 50 m/s aren't a great deal.
    Flash suppressor... i want that! It would be very useful :)
    The laser dot.. nope. I could use a better base hipfire, but the semi-auto sniper rifles should have a disadvantage in that compared to the scout rifles to make up for their higher damage.

    Didn't they fix the reload time?!? o_O i hoped to see that fixed along with the KSR-35 sight bug.
  10. Tnsr

    Addition:
    I now recognized one of the big flaws of the semi long range sniper fifles: the sway of the crosshair goes on while you are shooting. While you are really sniping this doesn't matter as you are holding your breath anyway. But when using 2x reflex scope the sway must be managed without it and in short-medium range you also don't have time to wait until the crosshair stands still from holding breath.
    The recoil is so huge with the Impetus that the crosshair is somewhere completely different after the shot than before the shot, which makes aiming even more a pain in the ***. When you are shooting the crosshair should behave as if you would hold the breath, it should move back to the point where you originally aimed if you do not move the mouse, stay there for maybe 200 ms and then continues swaying. If you shoot a second bullet in that 200 ms the crosshair keeps being steady and so on.
  11. Tnsr

    And here we go again!
    The list gets longer and longer.

    Todays finding: bullet drop != bullet drop.

    The semi sniper rifle without a scope has the same bullet drop (7.5) as the semi sniper rifle, only difference is 500 bullet velocity compared to 550 of the real sniper rifle.
    I recognized it long ago, but now I compared their real bullet drop. The Impetus with a 4x scope and the Gauss SPR with a 8x scope. Theoretically this means I have to aim twice as high on a target with the Gauss SPR as with the Impetus to do a headshot. Practically I have to aim as high with the Impetus as with the Gauss SPR which means the Impetus has twice the bullet drop of the Gauss SPR.

    WTF SOE?
    Not only that the bullet velocity is a bad joke for a semi automatic rifle, the bullet drop is MUCH more than it should be considering the data sheet of the weaon?
  12. MrIDoK

    I believe the difference in bullet drop is a consequence of the difference in bullet speed.
    It isn't a flat "bullet drops x meters at y distance", but more of a "bullet drops x meters every second". So, if the bullet travels faster the drop happens over longer distances, but if it travels slower then you'll see the drop happen closer. That's why soft point ammo and silencers appear to give the bullets a higher drop, it's just because of their reduced speed.

    About the close-range semi-snipers i'd change a couple of things:
    - lower scope-in time: for a weapon built to be used with low-power optics you need more time to scope in than a LMG, which is probably much more heavy... it doesn't make any sense and is a great annoyance in close range.
    - no sway after firing: i mean, i understand that there must be sway because it would make sniping even too easy, but sway is just a random mechanic that we can't compensate for when shooting in semi-auto. The OP's idea of pausing sway when firing is the perfect solution as it doesn't give us uber precision but allows us to keep the rifle on target once we acquired it. This could be a change valid for the sway mechanic in general as it doesn't impact bolt actions in any way.
    - lower cone of fire: it should be higher than any other gun, but for what exact reason do we have 8 times the spread per shot of a scout rifle? I mean, a scout rifle fires 334-damage bullets and its cof bloom is 0.125 and a semi-sniper fires 400-damage bullets and has a cof bloom of 1. It's ridiculous, even if i manage to keep the reticle on target the cof will screw me over even at close distance! A cof bloom of 0.2 would be enough to make us inaccurate with sustained fire at distance, in my opinion.
  13. Lucidius134

    Jion VS

    [IMG]
    (Source: Top most green link in signature, might be relevent to your interests)

    Our close range semi auto sniper are literal straight upgrades!!! Hahaha!!!!

    Only difference is no bullet drop and longer reload speed.
  14. Tnsr

    I know, but the difference is only 50, this can't lead to such a big difference in bullet drop.
    At the moment I really can't see any other weapon that deserves the "worst gun of the game" award more than the long range semi sniper rifles. In CQC-short ranges it is completely useless thx to the CoF. In medium ranges you can easily be out"sniped" even with LMGs. On long ranges SOE took away the bullet drop characteristics of a sniper rifle and made it as bad as a normal automatic rifle.

    Go home Impetus, you are drunk!
  15. MrIDoK

    There's the Beamer, don't forget that little bugger.

    But yeah, those guns need some love. I linked this thread to Higby, but i don't get my hopes up. After all, there are the scout rifles for the usual 1000c/700SC if we want a good semi-auto rifle for our infiltrator, right?
  16. Tnsr

    Well imho all semi autos, also the battle rifles, lack some serious balancing with the automatics. Seems like they just looked at the pure stats and tried to balance them this way instead of actually testing them out on the battlefield. The damage per bullet should be much higher for a semi. Theoretically they are able to do around 250 rpm. Actually we end up with 50-100, thx to the huge recoil and in case of the long range semis the sway, dependent on the range to the target, which is around 1/6 of the RoF of an automatic rifle. Mathematical we must end up with 900 damage per bullet to equal semis with autos if we leave all the other stats untouched. If damage numbers should not explode we must end up with much less recoil and RoF so we can stay on the target with the crosshair. The semis need a reasonable buff on all weapon stats to balance them out.

    The semi scout rifle is no alternative to me. I trialed them three times now. Problem is that even at best we need at least one more bullet than with the long range semis to kill an enemy. Even the three bullets of the Impetus are too many to kill an enemy. Ever experienced what it looks like if an enemy approaches you in short range with a SMG? He sprays you and is able to kill you from full hp to death between two shots of the Impetus, which can also be just a problem of lag and that he began to shoot before I actually recognize it on my side, but still you experience to be killed between two shots.
    The Impetus is wrong in so many ways, I could write a book about it after using it for over a month. Problems with this gun then also hits the semi scout rifles and the BR. I can not believe they were tested on the battlefield by SOE.

    Oh, another thing I want to add: Why does a weapon, consisting of weapon parts of other guns, nothing special and that SOE themselves consider to be worth only 500 Certs, half of what a normal rifle costs, still cost 700 SC? How about being fair and sell them for 350 SC?
    In the current state SOE should pay us for actually use them :)


    Here's another idea we can think about for the semis:
    http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...power-as-a-flinch-effect.100436/#post-1343945
  17. Tnsr

    Another day, another post.

    Today we have to speak about a general problem of PS2 that will make semi automatics always disadvanced. The lack of optimization of the game engine. Most people want or even have to play on lowest settings. The problem with this is that even in medium ranges the animations of the enemy become very edgy. As long as someone keeps running straight forward that's not so much of a problem, but as soon as you hit the first shot the enemy will begin to strafe and move around. Unfortunately the edgy animation gets joined by very abrupt position changes of the enemy model, it's not like they are warping, but the sudden changes and unfluent movement makes it hard to keep the crosshair on them, especially with a huge recoil. It looks like with the sudden fps drops to around 15 it is also like the ping goes up to 200 or so. Anyone ever played good old Quake 3 (best competitive online shooter EVER!) with a timenudge of about -50? It's the same effect in PS2, only even worse. This problem makes it obvious that everything below 30 fps is unplayable in an online shooter and why SOE MUST optimize the game urgently.

    Next post is just around the corner, I already know the next flaw. This time it only relates to the long rang semi snipers but not the other semis. I'd like to see Higby play PS2 with a minimum requirement PC, playing semi automatic rifle in a tech plant, with a webcam on his face.
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  18. MrIDoK

    That's a problem with every weapon, but the less bullets you have at your disposal, the more you will feel this. We move very quickly and can change direction without any momentum, which makes predicting one's movements an annoying waste of time. With a full-auto rifle there's little problem as you can simply spam bullets and you will hit something, but that's impossible with a semi-auto rifle...
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  19. Tnsr

    Exactly that. But it's not only the direction change without momentum. Games like BF3 or BC2 also have no momentum but the enemy models change directions much smoother. So you can't say it is only because of that.
    I don't know how the netcode of PS2 works, but if there is some kind of lag compensation trying to compensate the pings it could be well an explanation of the abprubt direction change phenomenon in PS2. As the hit detection is said to be client side I would be surprised if a high value lag compensation works under the hood, I only say that it feels and looks exactly like that.