Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Zizoubaba, Jan 10, 2020.
DBG, you're not just idiots, you're incompetent.
You managed to ruin one of the best online games that ever existed.
You managed to make ugly one of the most beautyful games in the world.
You took a unique gem, precious, rare, and you spat on it, you **** on it, your rub your shoes on it, it's an insult not just to the players, but to those who made this game in the first place.
You should be ashamed. I almost feel like troling your professional profiles to make sure that everyone in teh game industry knows what a bunch of losers your are.
What are you complaining about? If anything the faction that you chose and the players that play around your time are at fault.
If you don't see it, then it wasn't meant for you to see !
It's entire TR pop stuck inside biofarm, no one care about anything else.
Personally i don't care about allerts or territory control too, i just searching for decent fights or at least a place where i can farm and not be farmed, so i try to avoid biolabs at any cost.
Maybe Zizoubaba just the same as me, but maybe he is "objective player" (low skill 0.X KDR trash who cannot play FPS so he is looking for other opportunities to realize himself in the game, coming up with his own rules or lean on existing in-game victory conditions), who knows.
Anyway i think what changing teleports to spawn tubes was a bad idea, but previous biolab iteration was not THAT better to calling someone "idiots", changes must been done, they just not figure out the right way. Problem not in biolabs. People fight there because this game is "combined arms" - some space ******* pull his air hammer and harvest the "crops". Does it fun to be harvested? Nope. Does it fun to be oneshotted\instagibbed? No, but if it was a headshot from CQC sniper it was at least "skillful" move, it require some effort. But where is a skill to put yourself inside EXO-Suit(any vechicle) what provide you shell with additional HP, in some cases immunity to small arms and gun what can oneshot anything by bodyshot. For example fights in waterson redemption - there is almost always a lighting on nearby hill who pound one HE shell after another in to the same doorway, over and over again. You get the idea.
They nerfed all AP cannons once to not oneshot standart infantry model, but this change was reverted back after couple months, vechicle-******* whine so much... "Oh it's sooo unrealistic what giant tank cannon cannot kill infantry in one shot" they said.
Welcome to planetsalt 2
Vanu fair and balanced.
welcome to Wrelside 2!
I don't see it. Is it the 2% faction XP the NC gets despite having the same faction pop? Because it can't be the biolab. Even during the Horrible Hex system the Zergs would purposefully move to a Biolab for a fight ignoring everything else. This isn't something DBG has done, this is a core problem with PS2 since the earliest of the game: Capturing territory is only a temporary thing. Acquiring stats is permanent.
So people farm stats instead of capturing continents.
The solution is simple as always: Remove K/D or make it far less visible to players, increase the importance of other statistics. It's ridiculous that if you kill 6 vehicles in one life but the drivers got away that people look down their noses at you while a MAX or HE tank farming a doorway is applauded for his KD.
Stats should be aquired based on many things. Every minute of a base timer in your favor should count as one point if you are in the base. Generators that are overloaded and exploded nearby should get you a point simply because we can assume you were responsible for defending it. Assists should count for more, for example by making the fraction of assist XP count as that much of a kill. Two 70% kill assists would count as 1.4 kills to directives that way. Destruction of valuable and tough things should be more important than infantry kills, so vehicle/aircraft/MAX kills should be more prominently counted and shown in-game than infantry kills that encourage players to get the cheesiest method to get the kills rather than engage challenging and valuable targets. On that note, amount of extreme menace kills for example should also be counted, it shows a difference between people who farm newbs and people who try to hunt down experienced and dangerous enemies.
Do you see the irony?
I see all TR and NC players sitting in a biolab while VS capture the entire continent. How is Daybreak at fault here?
TR populated territory looks like a **** and balls - LOL.
Because they made VS OP so noone enjoys fighting them?
It's not just an issue on his server, it's an issue on most servers, VS just aren't fun to fight.
Every time we talk about VS, people deny that they win way more alerts than TR and NC across all servers,
and every time they do I grab the last 30 continent-lock alert wins tally them up and prove them wrong.
Since it happens across every server we can rule out skill/teamplay,
unless someone actually wants to claim that by miracle VS are 'just better' on every server...
So when we remove skill, what other cause is left?
A far simpler and more realistic answer is that they simply have better stuff.
It doesn't even need to be .
This explains why they win way more alerts than TR and NC across all servers.
It might not be by some miracle.
Certain factions may attract players with certain traits or a certain mindset - so you can't assume faction players are fully randomised and homogeneous. Perhaps TR and NC factions just attract more gung ho, trigger happy people, or people who see the fight or the farm rather than the objective as the point of the game.
Also, the idiosyncrasies of faction weaponry may lead people to play in a different manner. It doesn't necessarily follow that the alerts are won because weaponry is better. The weapons could be objectively worse, but that in itself could lead to gameplay that is more collaborative, less confrontational or more objective based - which could as a by product lead to alerts being won more often.
You cant assume that winning alerts is a direct function of how effective weapons are, how many enemies you kill or how much damage you cause.
In the OPs example - VS has a relatively large overpop (5% above the other two factions). I was logged into Cobalt over Christmas and NC had similarly large overpops at times, and won their alerts with a similar magnitude to that seen in the OPs image.
Best outfit that played this game was TR (INI ELITE) that is not even in doubt since they won the Outfit Wars, hell they even beat probably one of Planetside 1 most elite Outfits (Future Crew) in two scrimmages look it up on Youtube...
So it has nothing to do with the weapons, it just has all to do with who ever in behind them... And the kids love red soooo....
Not this again.
If these preferred mentalities were a strong impactor then we would see it on the performance of the common weapons like NS and copy-paste weapons like shotguns and most snipers. Yet we dont see that. We even see that on a per-player basis almost all of these weapons see the almost exact same use and have the almost exact same average. Lightning guns, NS SMG's/LMG's/Carbines, NS guns on NS vehicles are all performing pretty much the same across all 3 factions. Its when we talk about the ES stuff that things go different.
So lets talk about the Magrider as a good example. Supposed to be underperforming for years, weak because its supposed to be a heavy Harasser instead of an MBT, which considering the massive amount of shots required to down a Harasser and its usefulness should be a compliment but is used as a derogatory term.
Yet when we look at the Magrider's performance statistics we see that on a per-player basis its pulled just as much as the other two, but performs better against everything except aircraft with the main gun.
The reason that the VS give is that this is teamwork. They have more people on the gunner seat! Obviously they spend more time communicating and working together right?!?
No, definitely not. If they did communicate and work together more then we would see that across the entire faction. So why dont the VS have even close to the same extra gunners in any other vehicle? Theres no significant amount of extra gunners for Sunderers, Liberators, Galaxies, Harassers or even Flashes. Why not? Well the solution is obvious... it only applies for the ES equipment. Its because the equipment is better that we see more usage.
This is the core problem with all the people supporting the VS having better players. It only applies to ES equipment and never to the entire faction arsenal. Why not? Why wouldnt teamwork work for NS weapons and only for the specific ES weapons that are complained about?
The best outfit doesnt change what the average player will achieve. And on the grand scheme of things one elite outfit doesnt have enough influence. They dont always have everyone online, they dont always have a fully realized communication up with platoons and squads and they have only so many players and fights they can influence at a time while on the other end another outfit might not beat them dorectly, but will lower their total effect on the game and make the work of average players count more.
This is why carbon-copy weapons across 3 factions almost all have the exact same performance. A single outfit like INI, which is only active at one server, simply hasnt got the numbers to have enough effect on the performance of every server put together.
That's called bad base design.
And bad base design is what allows that lightning to shell the same doorway over and over again. It is probably also being really effective at suppressing the spawns which in turn helps his faction to capture the base. That doesn't give you the infantry fight you want, but it does get the job done.
The thing is, many of the bases are placed in the worst positions possible with tall mountains / ridges around it that gives the armor the angle they need to hit what is inside.
Also FYI AP shells don't 1 hit kill infantry with flak armor, like so many engineers are wearing. And yeah it is incredible annoying that it's more effective/reliable to get out of your tank and use your rifle to kill someone rather than just back away and hit the ground where he stands. Because if your shell hit the ground, you do **** all damage..
This should end the discussion tbh.. When equipment are the same, the factions perform the same.
I can also add to the point about preferring to not fight VS. With soon 62.000 kills I'm currently at 33% more NC(35,312) than VS(26,499) kills..
Hmm, running around most of the time as a heavy. In my experience such people don't understand much about team play. And a 3 KD? No offense, but you look like a typical solo player to me, so what do you care if you win a countdown anyway?
Hm, rennst die meiste Zeit als Schwere rum. Meiner Erfahrung nach verstehen solche Leute nicht viel vom Teamplay. Und ne 3er KD? Nichts für Ungut, aber für mich siehst du wie ein typischer Solo Spieler aus, also was kümmert dich das eh überhaupt ob du nen Countdown gewinnst?
I can't sign it like this. Every faction has its good players. The problem with Randoms is that they're Randoms and you don't know what they're capable of.
There's basically two kinds:
Type 1: The rookie, looking for action. Rises to make kills. Mostly as a light or something to get out in an emergency and keep fighting. The most represented type. Mostly they can't even use the chat.
2nd type: The veteran - joins as an engineer. Can use the chat. And, most important, he understands the weapon on top. And also tries to repair the tank when taking cover
A cobalt is used for infantry defense. I'm a TR player and have a Kobald on my normal Prowler radar and a Kobald on it. For protection against the light ones and their excessive use of C4. Many Randoms are of the first kind and shoot bluntly at Sunderer or anything over 50m range. Why repel infantry when you can also shoot bluntly into the distance or at Sundys?
I heard from a PS2 veteran on the PS4 that he plays Vanu because of the better team play, because most of the time they are inferior in terms of population.
But I have to be honest, for me Vanu mainly seems like a club full of elites. Where even with experience you can't get in because you are not accepted. For reasons I don't understand.
That's why I hardly ever play at Vanu.
Das kann ich so nicht unterschreiben. Jeder Fraktion hat ihre guten Spieler. Das Problem an Randoms ist, das sie nun mal Randoms sind und man nicht weiß was sie drauf haben.
Es gibt quasi 2 Arten:
1. Art: Der Neuling – sucht nach Aktion. Steigt um Kills zu machen. Meist als Leichte oder so um in Notfall auszusteigen und weiter kämpfen zu können. Die meist vertretene Art. Meist können die nicht mal den Chat benutzten.
2. Art: Der Veteran – steigt als Ingenieur ein. Kann den Chat benutzten. Und, das wichtigste, er versteht die Waffe die oben drauf ist. Und versucht auch den Panzer zu reparieren wenn man in Deckung fährt
Eine Kobald dient zu Infanterieabwehr. Ich bin ein TR Spieler und habe auf meinem normalen Prowler Radar und ne Kobald drauf. Zum Schutz gegen die Leichten und ihren übermäßigen Gebrauch von C4. Viele Randoms sind von der ersten Art und schießen stumpf auf Sunderer oder irgendwas über 50m Reichweite. Warum Infanterie abwehren, wenn man auch stumpfsinnig in die Ferne schießen kann oder auf Sundys?
Ich habe von einem PS2 Veteranen auf der PS4 gehört das er Vanu spielt wegen dem besseren Teamplay, weil die die meiste Zeit in Punkto Population unterlegen sind.
Aber ich will ehrlich sein, für mich wirkt Vanu hauptsächlich wie ein Club voller Eliten. Wo du selbst mit Erfahrung nicht reinkommst, weil du nicht akzeptiert wirst. Aus Gründen, die ich nicht verstehe.
Das ist der Grund warum ich kaum bei Vanu spiele.
Your words arent supported by the gameplay. As a rule most players play the Heavy regardless of their skill or experience. Also if you ever got out of the Heavy class you would notice that escaping as a Light Assault isnt exactly a great way to play, something any rookie will learn almost immediately if they try. Even the Ambusher jets arent the best as you need to have the split-second decision time to realize you are losing a battle and then to have the situational awareness and skill to not immediately jumpjet into the scenery as you turn.
Veterans also dont join the Engineers. Engineers dont have enough to offer. Extra ammo? You only need 1 Engineer for that. Medics are much better as teamplay class as they have superior weapons in Assault Rifles, the ability to heal themselves and friendlies and can revive to keep an attack going.
The only reason Engineers see more action than Medics is because they are used in vehicles specifically so the player is NOT required to play together and have an engineer be ready to repair him somewhere.
Now if what you said is true and the VS is a group of elites then their Engineer usage would be through the roof. But more importantly the performance statistics of Engineer related weapons would be far superior to those of the other two factions. After all since their Engineers are more superior through both teamplay and skill they would score better overall right? Otherwise they wouldnt win!
But thats the thing. The VS does not use Engineers more often (and veteran players overall gravitate to the ease and power of the HA anyway) and they dont have any superior performance out of their Engineer weapons.
How did you come to the conclusion that Engineers are the Veteran choice? Especially since they have less to offer than Medics in terms of teamplay? Or that newbies use LA's to escape situations even though only one jetpack can be used effectively in most situations to do that... if you have the skills? Is it just because you feel like it? Because feelings are very bad for this kind of thing. We have things like the Magrider supposedly being inferior for years even though it was the best performing one. Or the NC shotguns being superior even though they are carbon-copies across all 3 factions. Feelings are bad, statistics are good. And we've thrown litteral pages of statistics at this already, its time the other side comes with their own for once.
It's Bad incentives and we all know it.
The usual Peanut Gallery is looking at the picture and probably mentally picking it apart apart issues like "Oh it was only the beginning of the Alert" ... well I got another one for you then taken only 36 hours ago:
More and more often the same 2 factions will spend at least 1/2 of a real Cont Lock Alert in the same Farm because the game's INCENTIVES ARE BADLY DESIGNED. Especially its Directives and KDR.
I've said this half a dozen times before: Either Faction that is attacking the faction with the LEAST territory, should only get half the Directives progress (the ones with the Most territory defending itself) or None at all (=the 2nd place faction) with a message warning them about it the first couple kills that it happens. And the Faction with the least Territory should also get a noticeable Small Arms/Headshot resistance bonus just to make it that much more annoying for the other 2 factions to try to "farm" them for Certs as well.
AND THEN after that "Stick", you attach the Carrot of giving 1 or 2 of the factions DOUBLE directives progress and even give them "KDR forgiveness" if they're underwater on KD at the end of the Alert. Which ones and based on which metric I haven't figured out yet. But you effectively would track some rewards during the alert based on whatever the Designer INTENDS to be the way Continent control should play out, and you double their Play-session progress on those Rewards at the end to further disincentive static biolab/techPlant Farming and the usual K/D padding
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