I'm seeing the word 'organized' get thrown around a lot over here...

Who or which outfits are specifically are you addressing if I may ask, when you say that you've seen the word organized being thrown around?

For NC, I can personally vouch for Ethos as I've seen them operate as a unit from both watching them and rolling with them. Blackbird uses time and precision with all of his drops. They pre-plan and regroup well at the warpgate, speed being their strength.

NC United is relatively new, but I've seen Skillset in action and he can micro-manage his guys well in terms of the specifics of point capture as well as direct non-outfit teammates with general direction and order at the same time.

I've only seen Longbow operate through commanders channel but when I see them on the field, they are always coordinated and are notably skillful with the use of the Sunderer. I've seen once a full Sundy of theirs rolling around preying on lone tanks or small groups of them, having all but the crew members leave to engage their target. Their light assault immediately laid out a smoke grenade in front of the Sunderer for cover while all the heavies wiped out the tank, at around 5 seconds.


These 3 outfits have their own strengths and weaknesses in organization, but they go beyond what you suggest of picking out points or talking in command channel. Their definition of organization might differ from yours, but they all excel by their way of organizing. Point is, there are many ways to organize in this game rather than just one, but there is no official way of doing it. Some ways may be better than others, but ultimately each have their own specifics and what-nots. Each outfit is different, emphasizing on certain aspects such as seriousness or casualness, ground play or airplay, having fun while being organized or not, etc.

There are some outfits out there though that are nothing but zombie zergs, whether they like to think they are or not. This negatively impacts the players in the zergfits by influencing their experience of the game. We're losing a lot of players because they may have missed out on having actual fun in different specialized outfits!

I really think OP hasn't found an outfit and organization he's looking for. You hit the nail on the head; larger organized outfits, *all* of ours, have personalities in how we conduct ourselves and strengths/weaknesses to boot. I might have a squad back-capping in mostly reavers while sending 3 squads to assist other outfits. Someone might send a whole platoon to one location but with a very specific purpose. Others might split their forces between major points in the same location or run AB/CD, and all of us will occasionally drop our forces on a point and say "go."

The strengths we all have are in how we handle the challenges and our efficiency in doing so. It's hard to start that off in a blurb in a recruitment page or here in the forums or even in-game by laying out a "here's how we do it." Actions speak louder than our words sometimes.

Bottom line is OP needs to start joining outfit platoons and find his place in the world.

Almost all of them. There's a search button at the top of the forums. 6 pages of results for the word 'Organized' - here's the first page:

[TR] The Bear-Snakes are highly organized outfit for players who admire teamwork

[TR] Fox Company.
...that can field multiple platoons at once and be a /slightly/ organized zerg. We are looking for people who want to look at the map as an overall...
Post by: Evilmonky, Today at 9:24 PM in forum: Jaeger (US East)

[VS] Looking for an Outfit Tank driver/Engineer/Light Assault
...November and I love the game, but now I would like to play with organized groups to keep the fun coming. Looking for an outfit, I play casually, but...
Post by: SpyraGyra, Thursday at 9:30 PM in forum: Jaeger (US East)

[Jaeger] Outfit Leader's Guide
...fight. A bad order: Outfit [TAG] is recruiting! Blah blah blah organized, blah blah blah community, blah blah blah Spam. Its spam. Plain and...
Post by: Dagonlives, Jan 24, 2013 in forum: Jaeger (US East)

[NC] Press Start eGaming
...are the mix of casual gameplay, but still wanting to play in an organized manner. Anyone is more then welcome to jump in our Mumble server @...
Post by: Camerooon, Jan 23, 2013 in forum: Jaeger (US East)

[NC] Jaegers United (NCUN) is Recruiting
...and be pleasantly surprised, from laid back cert farming to fun organized assaults we can cater to the masses. We can also direct you to an Outfit if...
Post by: SkillSet, Jan 21, 2013 in forum: Jaeger (US East)

Looking for NC Outfit on Jaeger
...tactics on the ground that would fit your play style. I always see death legion around in organized column and infantry strikes. Good bunch of guys.
Post by: SgtBlackbird, Jan 21, 2013 in forum: Jaeger (US East)

[TR] Looking for a TR Outfit?
...chat doesn't quite achieve the rapid responses we need in an organized platoon. So, we use Teamspeak, a VOIP program used frequently in team-based...
Post by: doombro, Jan 20, 2013 in forum: Jaeger (US East)

Disclaimer: I'm NOT calling these outfits out or anything; they simply popped up in the search results, that's all. For all I know, some of them are Navy Seals who kill everything in sight.

....looks like it's getting thrown around a lot to me. And there's nothing wrong with that - my point is that the word itself means something different to a lot of players - there's an implied level of organization that's required before the term applies, and that level is different for all of us - IMO, it's lower than it should be, and I think that a lot of players would agree, if we take a moment to think about it. I still maintain that there are *very* few squads that are really working at being organized enough to make a real difference in effectiveness. From what I've seen (I'm of middling experience - BR30), 'organization' typically means that squads are agreeing on targets, everyone in each squad goes after those targets, and there's some command chatter that keeps players in the loop as far as next objectives, who needs support, changes in the winds of battle, etc. All of this is often Good Enough™, because it's largely the limit for all three factions. The entire goal of my post is to see if there are any outfits who go farther as far as organization goes - and I've got some great feedback, public and private, so it's been a win and very educational to me.

Fair enough. Very time-consuming, though, so I'm hoping to short-circuit some of that time here (and I think I have). I have ran with some outfits, and the one I'm in now, *when* the plat leads/squad leads are on is a lot of fun, and fairly 'organized' (there, I said it too), but there's a part of each battle, and I know from conversations with other players that I'm not the only one thinking this - there's a moment in just about every battle when the though goes through my head: "this could be a lot more effective, a lot more efficient". I think a lot of it boils down to communication lag, and how difficult it is to pay attention to orders and points and objectives while running behind a rock until your decimator reloads while a pred is running up the hill towards you. I did see an outfit using a separate dedicated voice channel (ventrillo, I think) - if everyone is using that for real time conversation, that might be pretty effective.

...done rambling and thinking about it - it's beer time. I appreciate the input, guys - even the attidude-y stuff. I'd rather have some frank truth and opinions than anything else in here.

That's what I like about Jaeger; there's always several outfits in each empire that do exactly this. Without even being an NC player, I know PHX, ETHO, and LEGN all operate like this in some way or another, simply on the basis that they get stuff done, and they do it without excessive vehicle spam.

I agree to a certain extent, but, numbers are half the battle. At the end of the day, you're not going to take a heavily defended position like The Crown or Eisa Tech Plant without the bodies to get the job done. Defending a large facility while severely outnumbered is one thing, but assaulting one is a whole different story. Even if you somehow sneak an entire squad right under the enemy's noses, they're still going to bounce right back once your whole squad has been ripped apart by the 60+ people defending the place, and no matter how quickly you get a well-placed sunderer deployed, there's always going to be 3 or 4 guys on the other team holding AT mines with a big grin on their face once they know where it is.

And running around a continent capping empty spots while avoiding all the fights is never any fun.

Numbers are unfortunately quite a barrier to overcome. In some cases, doing so would require coordination on every level, from squad members to entire outfits. But, again, that's the great thing about this server. You can actually see that kind of coordination taking place sometimes. Wish I could say the same for every other server.

Well it's great to see a thread that's not an outfit recruitment post. Personally I like seeing threads like this in these parts of the forums. This one certainly provokes debate and discussion and I too would like to see each outfit go into detail (if possible) on how they operate in this server as well. Props to the OP for provoking thought, discussion, and opinion. I hope this thread gets swelled with more insightful and open-ended information and content.

I'm quite certain that most outfits were new when they started in this server (I know I still am!). It would certainly be beneficial to everyone, not just outfit members or leaders, if ideas are shared and discussed.

Think we can come together and make a definition for what defines an 'organized' outfit? I'm all for it if people are willing to put aside their epeens and zergfits stay out of it. Because it's very true, there are many outfits that claim it but probably don't do it.

For instance:
- An outfit for a group of guys that works together casually. They are organized, but they aren't necessarily doing anything with it. It's a social organization not a tactical one.
- (Active) Size: You don't need to organize 5 or 6 players either. They just go and do and stick together. Once you've got a squad going though, then management and leadership start coming into play.

Now I say zergfits stay out of it because I see alot of zergfits have very loose definitions of organization. Hence, if the smaller outfit members herein can come to some agreement, it can, and probably will, apply to a zergfit...if indeed they are organized.

So, in the interest of peace, for this process, I ask you non-zergfit members, What do you define as organized? If there are some recurring themes, then we can start to get abetter picture of the eventual definition. No need to disputing the definitions of others, I'm asking for subjective answers to see objective results. 3,2,1...GO!

Each outfit has some degree of organization, be it low or high, but how they do them is up to them to explain. You can't define "organization" for all outfits in Planetside, as each outfit is different.

I think it's better to ask each outfit how they operate and at what level of focus and determination they put into their formal squads along with the specifics of their specialties.

What you may really be looking for is which outfits are the most dedicated and extreme in their efforts to coordinate within their squads/platoons. Also, how do you know all large outfits are zergfits? It'll be great to hear the methods of all outfits.

I would guess that the great statistical likelihood is that practical organization in PS2 is at least somewhat inversely proportional to the size of the active outfit/squad, at least above a certain number. The devs have data that could answer a lot of these questions - for instance, if we defined squad 'success' in a (admittedly somewhat arbitrary) way such as 'Average Squad XP per hour greater than X', and then look at things like class distribution, total com chatter time, beacon and waypoint usage, K/D by class, etc., there are likely points on those curves that would represent tacit 'best practices' as far as efficient and organized uses of the available resources such as communications and smart class distribution across squads, etc. I doubt they'll turn the data over to us, however - nevertheless, although I agree with your point "You can't define "organization" for all outfits in Planetside, as each outfit is different." - you *can*, however, quantify squad effectiveness due to same, at least to a certain degree.

Don't take me out of context. I'm not saying they won't get their say. But I don't want it initially. Start smaller and build up.

Very constructive. I'll use smaller words from here on in, unless you'd like to point out specific grammatical structures that you find questionable?

...it's just a forums post, sunshine, not a patent app.

I think it's a great idea, but selling everyone on the idea would likely be problematic. I'd be very interested to see the results, though.

You'll have to patent your rage and bottle it, sell it to SOE and maybe something will get done.

Otherwise, create your own outfit, draw your own play book--make your own rules!


And please for God's sake stop bothering the rest of us with your misplaced rage and misunderstanding of what is actually evolving in the game. Don't take it out on us.

Don't need to sell everyone. The results would be just a guide for those looking for an organized outfit, and for outfits that may fall to far out of this guide to try and focus a bit more. I'll start w/ our Outfit:

- We take pride in our time to mobilize. Fast mobilization after the order is given is something we work into each and every member.
- Voice Coms. We don't require mics, but you need to be able to listen to the tactical officers.
- Structure. We have a tried and true method of Officers, NCOs & Members that, after a while, we can ignore because everyone knows their place and what's expected. With everyone on the same page it's not often anyone has to pull rank. And if you attained a particular rank within our outfit, you've earned it.
- Specialization? This isn't anything that's a must and can vary greatly from outfit to outfit. PG is a mobile infantry outfit however. Everyone is expected to be able to fight as a grunt on the ground. You're expected to be competent as an HA, Medic or Eng. (or we'll train you to be competent).
- Quality Control. Again, different based on the outfit, but as I outlined our expectations above. If your performance is lacking and after a few training sessions doesn't improve, we will show you the door and ask you to come back later.

There might be more I'm missing but these are the big things that keep us a well oiled machine. What do your outfits consider organized? Maybe we'll start to see a pattern and we can build off that.

The reason I am still not in an outfit all the way to BR34....because I have seen none that are actually organized.

Setting a waypoint, and "hoping" people follow it, isnt organized. Capping a base as fast as possible then moving to the next, until you over-extend and get cut off, isnt organized. Leaving squad/platoon people behind in a 1/3 sunderer isnt organized. Letting people in the platoon do their own thing 5 hexes away is not only pointless, it isnt organized. Talking about your headshots, what camo you want to buy, what upgrades are good for your gun, in platoon chat, while you are fighting isnt orgaznied. This is almost ALL I have seen.

This is why I am hoping to find a real outfit, that is competitive, organzied, and doesnt tolerate idiots. If it isnt here on Jaeger, I am very much looking forward to transfer tokens.

For BRSN it is regular training sessions at the warpgate on formations, how to enter and defend a building, as well as drills timing on how fast the squad is able to disembark, storm a point covering all exits and entrances, then exfiltrate back.

It is also an emphasis on building a balanced squad unit, with a good mix of medics, heavy assaults, engineers and MAX suits that have been educated on how to cert effectively for their given role.

The other fact is well trained leaders with a strong game sense that are able to actively command at the squad level (two sergeants per squad is the usual) and a platoon commander that usually steps away from the fighting, organizing the battle via the map interface while piloting a support vehicle such as a sunderer or skyguard tank. Since we run two sergeants in planned operations, we can often split each squad into 6 man fire teams for objectives such as shield generators.

Waypoints and smoke are used to mark targets, defensive positions and fall back points. Our platoon waypoint is commonly used as our 'platoon fall back point' and the squad waypoint is used to mark a strong point within the current facility such as a two storey-building with stairs.

With the three tiered communication system- Squad member - Sergeant - Platoon commander we are able to effective track each individual player in the platoon, as well as having a number of specialized squads operate outside the platoon such as the shock troopers and infiltrator unit. This drastically increases our response time and ensures that when we bring all our manpower to bear, we are bringing absolutely everything, and not wasting elements.

We've found this to be a very effective setup with three caveats:

1. Many players are not willing to work as a team like this. We cannot recruit those players, and our numbers are lower then many outfits as a result. We make up for this with good micromanagement and a good teamwork ethic. Furthermore it is difficult to recruit members as the only effective means we have at the moment is observing how they operate and then deciding if they are right for our outfit.. then making the offer. Planetside 2 has poor resources for outfit promotion.

2. It is very draining for squad leaders who have to constantly monitor their squads as well as looking at the overall picture, so our operations do not last as long as many other outfits, though we fight far more often during the period we actually are operating.

3. This requires dedicated players who log on regularly, and regular practice in order to maintain the quality necessary, and often these numbers are not present unless it is prime-time hours.

In short as one of the commanders of this outfit I define organization as knowing exactly what is going on in your operation at all times despite the fact that you are not actively contributing to the fight, and being able to act on knowledge your receive only through voice communication. Thats real organization.

Join one of the outfits listed in this thread. You'll be pleasantly surprised. I know for myself that I have had a number of jaded high BR players join BRSN only to be blown away by how differently we play the game. My guess is that some of the NC and Vanu factions are the same way, you just gotta go look!

Go ahead and throw your outfit names out there with justification of why they are organized and I will throw them into this thread
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...-organized-from-a-tactical-perspective.91960/

Auraxian Guard [AUXG]
We are a new outfit, however I plan on having strict squad level organization.
Every squad is required to have 2 medics, and at least 1 engineer and medic.
Squad leaders micromanage a lot, and I'm training them to do it effectively.

We are a combined arms outfit. We have occasionally pulled tank columns and gal drops, however
at our core we're an effective small-arms force. Infantry is what we do best. We have had instances where we have
6 guys hold off an entire VS platoon on Jaeger for 45min.

Guerilla Warfare is our mythos.

I've mainly been with ETHOS and PHX and WRNC I don't really know who else to throw in.
I haven't seen a lot of other outfits, and I don't remember their tags.