I'm seeing the word 'organized' get thrown around a lot over here...

,,,and just because you post that your outfit is 'organized' sure doesn't mean that it is. So far, it seems like wishful thinking for most of the outfits on Jaeger - an actual 'organized' squad will have a squad lead with a mic, every time. There will *always* be a Squad beacon. Grunts will always know what their orders are. If you're on the wrong continent or heading the wrong way, your mates will tell you to get your **** over to the point and start working with the team, or you're gone. It's pretty simple. There are some other things that would set some squads a step above, if they'd actually implement them - for instance, slower traffic keep right during zergs -- quit running into each other. Foot soldiers, stay out of the road and quit getting run over. Goal #1 should be to get a sundy deployed near the beac asap, so when your front lines die, they can spawn closer than 500m. Organized use of air is tragic all over the server - why would a full gal go anywhere without a couple of escorts? You're talking about 14 or so people working together (more if libs) - accomplishing that is what you're really talking about when you say things like 'organized' and 'team play'. Squad distribution is also largely without thought much of the time, with little thought to balancing the classes so they work together as effectively as possible depending on the current goal.

Granted, a lot of outfits are striving towards this sort of organization, but it's not going to happen as long as you're focusing on numbers. Sure, if you get a few hundred people to zerg with, you can run all over the map - but the fact is, 2 squads of 10 or so people each that are actually organized could take any point on any continent against 3 times their numbers holding them. Real organization will be the key to ruling this game - I think experience counts for a lot as well. So, if there are any outfits who are actually organized beyond just a couple of guys talking in the command channel and picking whatever points seem convenient, I'd love to hear about them, particularly if there are some actual entry requirements (a minimum BR30 and a commitment to team play whenever anyone is squadded up, for instance). But speaking as a player who's just thumbing through the recruiting outfits in the forums - there's a lot of words here, but not a lot of meat to set anyone apart.

Just my HO. Flames? Please post them below - I'll get right on a submissive reply and some sort of penance to heal your butt-hurt.

You are correct. But good luck trying to convince the zergfits of that.

So for an outfit to be organized all it needs is a good squad leader who *always* places spawn beacons?

#1- there's more to that. #2 - always having a beacon isn't as good as sometimes having a tactical beacon.

"All it needs" -- you must be a democrat. Sure didn't say that - those are simply minimal requirements (didn't mean to confuse you). Personally, having more than one beacon doesn't confuse me - I don't see a good reason to not have a squad beacon all the time. A tac or plat beac can exist as well, and can be at the same coordinates or not (I like to use all three as waypoints, personally, but I plan my pushes as much as I can).

Sorry, there's just nothing wrong with my post. Nice try, though.

Are you going for a strawman with the political inference?

Do not confuse beacon and waypoint, a beacon is a cooldown device that grants orbital drops, alloyed one per squad, placed on location by squad leader, and usable only by that squad.

Your personal waypoint requirements are not universal. In my platoons the waypoints are cleared when the objective is complete/impossible, and not restored until a viable solution is reached - in the meantime players explore their own options and suggest them. If you were to join the squad at such a time you would almost likely leave it because, in your opinion, we are not being organized as there is no visual notification dictating the role of the platoon.

Furthermore, waypoint placement does not dictate the organization of an outfit - it is something trivial and irrelevant to the conversation. What dictates outfit organization is organization of the outfit, not the mastery of a Squad/Platoon leader. Whether the outfit works together to take objectives of their own accord, whether they communicate with each other, whether there is a constant outfit filled squad/platoon going, whether outfit mates are doing liberator/mosquito/galaxy runs together. That's the stuff that matters. Not superficial and elitist waypoint or no waypoint, democrat or zerg. An organized outfit means that players in the outfit are a part of an organization and feel that way and act that way, whether the outfit organizes for zergs or buggy races or super gangster special operations that is all organization. You're looking for something specific - but organization isn't the specificity.

Scatterblak, ethosoutfit.com. All I have to say.

No confusion at all - but a beacon can be used as a way point - go to the beac, engae, go to the next one. It's all pretty simple. No one said anything about beacons dictating organiztion either - I made it pretty clear what I was talking about, and it's also pretty clear that you're looking for some reason to debate a point that isn't there. My post was very clear to everyone else; if you don't agree, why don't you go post your own thread? I don't really care to engage you anymore, particularly when you're fishing so desperately about something to disagree about.

..interesting -- I don't think I'll let this go quite yet. Let's take a look at your post:


"Do not confuse beacon and waypoint, a beacon is a cooldown device that grants orbital drops, alloyed one per squad, placed on location by squad leader, and usable only by that squad."
--So what? I didn't mean to confuse you - multiple beacons can be used as waypoints, if a leader is planning his campaign over the next several targets of interest. I never implied, however, that beacons were simply waypoints. It looks more like you're just looking for some sort of inference to justify some sort of trolling to me.


"Your personal waypoint requirements are not universal."
--So what again, I never said they were, and no one gives a ****.

"In my platoons the waypoints are cleared when the objective is complete/impossible, and not restored until a viable solution is reached - in the meantime players explore their own options and suggest them. If you were to join the squad at such a time you would almost likely leave it because, in your opinion, we are not being organized as there is no visual notification dictating the role of the platoon."
-- Fair enough, but your touting play style now - not really applicable to my thread.

"Furthermore, waypoint placement does not dictate the organization of an outfit"
-- So what ^3, never said this, and no one cares.

Look, dude, you're trolling -- if you're just interested in ******* with me, post an email where I can reach you (or send me one in game), and I'll send you a plane ticket or come to you, and we can talk about it in person. Else, go troll some other thread - if you're just fishing for distant reasons to disagree, you just look stupid here, and you're not welcome.

TLDR version

Scatter Likes Pepperoni Acme Pizza.
Nyan Likes Sausage Acme Pizza.
Neither has tried the other pizza but both insist theirs is best ignoring the fact BOTH are Acme Pizzas.

To each their own gentlemen. To each their own.

...re: "strawman' - you reference was incorrect. A strawman refefrence requires that I replace your stated position with one that I infer as equivalent when it clearly isn't. Just inferring that you're a democrat doesn't infer or replace anything that you posted.

+1
Fair enough. I started this thread, though, so this is *my* pie. If people don't like it, ****.

You raise a valid point. Ought to be more constructive about it though. It is very difficult to setup a system where players work as a coordinated team in a game with a 10 second spawn timer. My outfit has managed it, but that is because we regularly practice in the warpgate, and recruit players with a good teamwork ethic. This is more effort then most (and thats fine, play the game how you want) are willing to go through.

Noted - makes sense. The 10 secs does make it tough. I've seen at least one squad requiring ventrillo, which might make things easier; I like the idea of practicing, though - I wonder how many 'organized' outfits actually take time to drill to get it right?

---Was trying to raise the point constructively in my initial post, before the trolling (IMHO) began.

What you say in your OP is right and true, and I agree with it. I disliked a few of your following comments, though. Manner up, that will make what you say more acceptable for others. And in this case its important that people get to accept what youre saying.

I like apple pie.

The following comments weren't intended for you, my friend, and it's a tragedy that they had to appear in a public forum - they were targeted at someone that, IMHO, was trolling me - in a public forum, where it becomes a matter of respect. I don't note anything offensive in my initial post, other than possibly a passing annoyance with the entire state of play - if that caused offense, my sincere apologies. As far as subsequent posts that weren't targeted at you in any way - I make no apologies for those. I don't care for trolls, and I've worked long and hard in the FPS community - I don't care to be attacked spuriously, and I don't have any qualms about meeting someone and talking about whatever issues they may have in person.

spawn beacons are an odd objective marker choice....

#1 you need to be physically at the point to place it

#2 it has a timer

#3 it can be destroyed

#4 the enemy can see it

#5 there are special certs specifically for placing multiple waypoints with different colors with no physical presence required, nothing visibile to the enemy, and obviously immune to damage as a non-physical object.

That's not to say Squad beacons shouldn't always be used.... but their placement should be for maximum convenience in returning to the fight as well as survivability where it won't get taken out...

course, you could get screwed like me and wind up with a 20 day (yes... 20 days) cooldown and unable to spawn on a beacon for nearly 3 weeks >.<

As a whole outfit? Probably only my outfit on the TR actually drills the stuff at the warp gate. I've not seen anyone else do it but I could be wrong. It's odd, because despite its effectiveness we regularly get trolls over proximity chat who claim our thirty guys practicing in the buildings are 'the reason why we lost Indar'. If people would work as a team, they could get stuff done twice as fast with half the personnel. A squad leader that actively checks his map during fights (once per minute usually) and uses voice to give out orders is essential.

What we've found though is that if you take people aside before each outfit operation, and throw em in a building for 15 minutes showing how to room clear, how to move as a team and how to embark/disembark transports in a timely manner and then put those guys under active squad leaders who think for themselves that we ultimately save far more time then outfits who have to wait 10 minutes in between each cap to get their ball rolling again. The initial effort is far greater though. (And seeing 12 guys jump into a Galaxy that is flying past at high speed looks freaking badass).

Planetside 2 doesn't really reward organized play initially, and that is why its not popular. Before the patch it was difficult to find your squad mates on the minimap, there are no icons for targets to shoot, explosive spam was at an all time high and spawn times are low.

Ultimately it is difficult to run as a co-ordinated fire team (6+ members) when some light assault immediately sees you, and suicide bombs you with a grenade and a c4. If he even kills 2 of you, he considered it a fair trade in his mind. Flak armor helps immensely, as do MAX suit point men and heavies with resist shields, but that is always a present danger. Furthermore, that light assault will be ready to do it again in about 20 seconds usually.

However, if you have medics who get you up every time you die, you actually save time versus spamming the deploy button at a sunderer 150m away from where you died. That light assault might go 1-1 due to the element of surprise, but our guy will be revived far more quickly then he will. For that reason, we often make greater use of the galaxy drop ship or spawning beacons rather then sunderers. Sunderers are vehicles designed to support numbers, and usually we are working with smaller teams. We've managed some impressive defensives and caps based on the virtue of our teamwork. I am hoping that more outfits will pick up on our success as we grow larger and start to emulate this to a degree.

This is *exactly* the sort of feedback I'm looking for. Now, to find a VS outfit that does the same thing. It's good to know that there are like-minded players, though - thanks!

As you know, you see a lot of I want "Active" "Mature" people for "Organized" outfit. These are just keywords used to "sell" their outfit. If you look at my recruitment page, this is what we "TRY" to do, at least when I am on. I consider my outfit "organized" because when I get on, I can only say speak for when I’m on, we get as many members that are online in the platoon. We usually follow the “a to a” strategy I started to help with the "where do we go" comments. We do call targets, get sunderers where they need to be and hack stations instead of blowing the up. The word organized would be justified if people stayed and played the game more than a month. Then people would know what to do, where to go and what they need when they get there. I try to call these things out when leading but again, it is almost like herding cats. Most of the time, people do listen and it all works out. When it doesn’t, I usually kick people from the platoon. If you feel this description is what you consider "organized", please feel free to jump in one of our platoons when I am running it. Maybe you can enjoy the game better knowing you will be in an organized platoon.