If you don't want me to farm, stop punishing me for my job.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by deggy, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. deggy

    This is an issue a lot of vehicle players are running into.

    Vehicles are, as intended, a limited resource. Arguably not limited enough, but more limited than infantry.

    And, of course, they can be fitted for different roles. Anti-infantry (AI) is often called "farming" by non-vehicle-oriented players. Anti-vehicle (AV) units are often completely ignored by those same players when they complain about vehicles farming. Most of an AI unit's certs are going to be made killing infantry, while most of the AV unit's certs are going to come from vehicle kills.

    For the purposes of this thread, anti-air is considered anti-vehicle. Aircraft are vehicles, and AA suffers the same limitation that the rest of the AV options do, which I'll go into in a moment.

    Most vehicles are highly resistant, if not completely immune, to AI weaponry. The ESAI secondaries, for instance, aren't even capable of dealing damage to armored targets. HE rounds are extremely ineffective against tanks. Rocket pods aren't terribly effective against aircraft due to targeting difficulty.

    On the other side of the coin, the AV options are usually bad at infantry-killing. They might require better aim or longer exposure to fire to get a kill.

    Here's the root issue I want to address:

    As a tanker, I am punished for pulling anything but an infantry-killing "farming" loadout.

    Why, you ask? Because if I kit out for AV work, and I succeed at it, that's the end of it. Chances are, the tanks and aircraft I'm killing won't be back, either because they're on timers, out of resources, or just don't feel like driving/flying all the way back to the fight. By winning battles, I am effectively limiting my own cert income.

    However, if I had pulled anti-infantry, I would be assured an infinite supply of kills. Infantry will keep spawning forever, and the only incentive to stop spawning at a certain location is stats.

    TLDR: If you want me to continue to run AP/AV, the cert income from that role needs to be comparable to the cert income from spamming a tower for infinite farm kills all day. It's not.

    See the problem?
    • Up x 37
  2. doombro

    I'm not sure what you're getting at. You say that vehicles are limited, and not enough, and that this is a good thing.

    Then you go on to say that you're punished for using AV loadouts because vehicles are too limited. Help me out here. :confused:
    • Up x 2
  3. gigastar

    The problem is known, it is just overlooked for the sake of appeasing the crops infantry players.
    • Up x 10
  4. deggy

    Basically, there's a disconnect between what SOE wants me to do and what I'm rewarded for doing.

    Farming infantry will make me hundreds of certs. Killing vehicles will make me dozens of certs. Being farmed isn't fun, and farming isn't terribly fun, so SOE needs to be rewarding the side of vehicle gameplay that produces more entertaining play and counterplay. Right now it's the opposite.

    I don't know HOW to make the reward more equal (other than 1000XP tank superiority bonuses, maybe :p) without making tanks even more cert-pinata-ey than they are now for infantry. But rolling anti-armor isn't actually that good for earning certs, it's just more enjoyable for players like me.
    • Up x 6
  5. MajiinBuu

    You need a good gunner, to get those puny squishies.
    Unfortunately, every time I have a Proton II PPA secondary I always seem to run into tanks :oops:
    • Up x 2
  6. Posse

    I think what he's saying is that pulling a AI tank is much more rewarding than pulling a AV tank (certs-wise) and that's why everyone does that. Is that true? I don't know, I don't have AV loadouts to compare, but my SPM is higher as HA (probably because of the vehicle kills) than in a Viper Lightning despite having more kills per minute with the Viper (and a much higher K/D too)

    If I take this guy for example, there doesn't seem to be that much of a difference in certs between all 3 main cannons, I'd say the rewards are fine as they are.
  7. Zinus

    Ground controltm dominance bonus certs for when ground vehicles attack/destroy each-other?
    Much like what air units have for fighting air.

    I don't play with vehicles that often tho, so it might be a bad idea xD
  8. Van Dax

    pretty simply:
    we need to be able to change our loadouts

    some rebalancing should be done so that things like AV mag vs AI prowler or AV prowler vs (snort) AI vanguard are much easier fights for the specialized AV tank, enough that an average dude can win against an average dude in those cases head on (as with infantry a TAR is going to eat a corvus for breakfast close range the majority of times)

    carrying AI weapons could up your AI armour in exhange for debuffing your AV armour and visa versa

    Unfortunately time has shown that we do indeed need to push for simpler rock paper scissorsesque balancing
    • Up x 11
  9. FaLI3N

    Honestly don't see this as a problem in my magrider but I see where you are coming from for the prowler and vannie, not that the vannie can really farm infantry effectively anyway.

    I have maxed all reload speed and ammo capacity for my fpc and saron though so I can afford to use it to peg the infantry while my secondary gunner spams them down with the saron. I've gotten pretty good at using the magburn and sideways strafing to magmow through infantry though so I get quite a few roadkills up close and personal. Of course running through infantry is fun but I only do it after I run out of armor to kill :oops:
  10. Chubrokoli

    The reason AI loadouts are punished is that the many many dumb people out there dont wanna get farmed while doing their brainless tactic
    • Up x 2
  11. Yuukikun

    You're completely right deggy, how stupid was i, thinking that Planetside2 was for fun! I should have known better that it's actually about farming certs away from battle and turning new players away from the game because i can't stand seeing my K/D lower when i play infantry.

    Oh and i almost forgot, once i die after 200 kills, i should also make a post on forums that c4 is op because my vision field is only on a 3degrees wide angle and there are no such means as to turn using my mouse.
    • Up x 4
  12. Paqu

    I use my AV loadout Magrider 95% of the time (AP / Saron) and get more certs by just hunting vehicles instead of farming infantry with my AI loadout (HE / Proton PPA) so I dont see a problem here. Sure I get a lot less kills, but with all the tank superiority, extreme menace kills and bonuses from the gunner I would actually need to farm pretty big amount of infantry to get to the same XP level.

    When vehicles are cleared from one area, its time to move somewhere else and keep the certs flowing.
    • Up x 2
  13. Luighseach

    So are you trying to say that infantry kills by a vehicle should be less rewards or ,at least imo a better option, that vehicle kills by vehicles should be way more rewarding?
  14. Kristan

    I don't see the problem. Exp income from killing vehicles is pretty decent and equal to multiple infantry kills. Also if you manage to kill a pilot too that most likely gonna be high menace kill and quite nice exp bonus as well. But even if you manage to only assist that's a good chunk of exp too.

    And if you want to go from AV to AI just drop your friggin tank at the safe spot and go for the brawl. Just make sure to refresh timer. And hope it won't be found by enemy C4 fairies, lolpodders, libs and yada yada...
    • Up x 1
  15. deggy

    It's actually AV loadouts that are punished. There will always be fodder for AI, but gaining tank dominance in a fight means your certs are gone if you run AV.
  16. Flapatax

    I don't have problems shooting infantry with an AP lightning.
    • Up x 3
  17. LibertyRevolution

    Tanks are force multipliers, stop using a force multiplier as a playstyle and we will stop calling you a farmer.
    You should not be in a vehicle mainly, this is an MMOFPS, not world of tanks... That clear it up for you?
    • Up x 3
  18. Kristan

    It's not only tank biased. AV infantry suffers from this too.
    • Up x 1
  19. deggy

    Agreed, but AV infantry don't have the locked loadout that vehicles do. The issue for armor is that we can't change our equipment without paying for an entirely new vehicle, so once you spawn something it needs to remain useful for a while.
    • Up x 3
  20. LibertyRevolution


    Your vehicle should never last long enough to need to switch loadout...
    You should pull a tank to get you to the next base, then you ditch it and get on the point.

    Or am I missing something?