If Railjack needs to be rebalanced, make it a Semi-Auto.

In less than a week, the ES rifles are supposedly going live, but with the community noise over the extreme velocity of the Railjack, it may very well come to pass that it needs to be rebalanced. However, I feel like the nature of a bolt action rifle really doesn’t offer much to work with. Should this come to pass, I think the devs might be better off considering other options besides trying to make the bolt action work, since without the extra velocity there's not much there.

My solution should it come to that:
1) Convert the Railjack into a semi-auto.
2) Reintroduce the shotgun fire-mode (don’t freak out) now that there’s more room to balance the weapon around it.

The Proposed Base Rifle:
I like the name Railjack and it fits with bringing back the shotgun: One part railgun, and one part jackhammer. Essentially going back to the original concept, only the railgun would function as a higher velocity but lower RoF as a semi-auto.

The basic rifle concept might look like this:
Damage: 450 @ 10m - 375 @ 75m
Velocity: 630 m/s
Magazine size: 8
RoF: 180 rpm

--The priority toward making fewer, more well aimed shots, especially if the current railgun tracers are used. Stats should support this.
--Damage boost to offset the magazine size against harder targets. Mostly harmless. Rifle hipfire and 6x-12x scopes make point blank infi one-shots not practical.
--Semi-auto base velocity is already low, and therefore doesn’t need as crazy of a boost to be an improvement. Went with 630 m/s as a conservative suggestion (First velocity on the Precision Pro when it had a shotgun)
--A lower fire rate should help offset the velocity advantage and help regulate the shotgun component. (By comparison the current semi-snipers fire at 231 rpm.)
--The mag doesn’t need to be as big. Velocity advantage should results in less misses and worth sacrificing the comfort zone of reserve shots, and it also serves the purpose of regulating the shotgun component.

The Shotgun Fire-mode:(Don’t Panic!)
Because of the semi-auto rate of fire and a larger magazine, the shotgun can be absolutely 100% incapable of one-shooting a target and still be a decent weapon because follow-ups can now be reasonably made. Further there’s more room to alter fire rates, magazine sizes, and reloads on the semi-auto to get the shotgun to where it needs to be as a raw damage weapon for the <15-20m range.

With more wiggle room, there's even more than one way to handle the actual fire mode itself, so I’ll lay them out as concepts rather than rattling off stats.

-Straight Shotgun-
Simplest option and pretty much what you’d expect. With the magazine size and fire rates of the semi-auto there’s a lot that can be adjusted for the sake of balance. There can be less damage per pellet or fewer pellets per shot, and still remain viable with multiple shots.

-Mini-Jackhammer-
Fires in two-round bursts but at a reduced pellet count per shot. A full burst may only produce 6-8 rounds. This works as an option to limit the number of shotgun uses per magazine by making it require two rifle rounds to produce one full shotgun blast. It can even require a re-chamber between shots like the Jackhammer to force a slower fire rate independent of the primary rifle mode. However this may result in the shotgun being more powerful than people are comfortable with on a secondary fire-mode.

Summation:
I feel like if the current Railjack were to be rebalanced and lose it's velocity, it wouldn't have enough going for it over the current crop of bolt actions, and likely not enough to make it an ES rifle in anything but name.

I just don't think the bolt action offers enough direction to grow in, and feel a semi-auto sniper would be less ridged and provide a wider range of variation and balancing points, and even bring back the original shotgun firemode concept. I feel this could easily work as the NC ES rifle, offer higher velocity semi-auto rifle fire and the shotgun mode providing close range possibilities even if made incapable of the point blank OHKs everyone fears.

I feel that something like that both adheres to NC traits while avoiding bolt action balance issues, and overall just more in line with the TR TRAP and VS Shade.

So if the Railjack flops, I feel like this is would be a much better direction to fall back in, even if it meant handing out refunds, rather than end up with an ES bolt action that's just a few minor points or a lackluster mechanic away from what's already available.

SIDE THOUGHTS:
None of this is integral to the first post, just side detail oriented stuff
Just thoughts about why I made the suggestion I did and devil’s advocate arguments to justify my thoughts on the matter, but I wrote it down, so what the hell, I'll post it since the arguments are likely to be made anyway.


What’s wrong with a Bolt Action?
It’s an overspecialized weapon. It does one thing. It does it awesomely. But because of it, there’s not much room for variety. So I just feel like trying to make a Bolt Action serve as an Empire Specific rifle is a bit of a balance nightmare situation.

A weapon designed and balanced around a binary function like a one-hit-kill doesn’t have a ton of room for variation. It kills or it or it doesn’t on a per shot basis, making damage values of little consequence in this model, and RoFs that are required to be kept low. The only variables that really have any serious wiggle room are reload, magazine size, and velocity.

Reload and magazine size are of little consequence, which leaves velocity as the only real choices for a meaningful impact, but the thing its impacting is the skill check on the OHK. The faster the bullet, the less the lead, the easier the one-hit-kill is to achieve. This is what’s currently scaring the crap out of people, it may even come to be a reasonable fear once, but there’s not much else available. Lose the velocity advantage and it loses its distinction and becomes as mundane as the other bolt actions already in the pile.

But what else is there?

Adding new mechanics is an equally problematic situation. We saw this with the scrapped shotgun fire-mode. If it was strong enough to reliably kill in a single shot, even at close range, it would be widely received as too overpowered. But because of the slow bolt action fire rate, not being able to do so rendered it almost inconsequential, with a knife or side-arm always being required. The same effect could have been achieved with as a body shot from the primary.

Because of this lack of gray area, I feel any new mechanic applied to a bolt action would fall into one of three categories:
1) High Impact but too damaging/unavoidable.
2) Low Impact but too restricted by low RoF to be useful/practical.
3) Highly situational passive effect (like bullet penetration) which will likely only be exploited unintentionally and with little effect.

At this point I just think working with a bolt action is the wrong way to go for an ES rifle.


The Shade can OHK. The NC version needs to hit harder, and a Semi can’t OHK.
I think trying to get weapons to have direct relations like that tends to design them into a corner. “It has to do this because their version does that,” kind of pigeonholes something right from the concept stage.

All the same, the Shade has a pretty good skill check on that OHK. Charge time, charge duration, sway, aim, and low velocity, and despite not having drop, does so at a fairly low velocity so a pretty big lead is needed for any kind of range. I think being able to put out some good raw close range damage a worth NC analogue.

The semi-auto w/shotgun concept I made uses gauss rifle velocity on its rifle component, making it easier to hit multipliers, and trades the OHK potential for the shotgun providing some raw damage at closer quarters. A high velocity semi-auto railgun with a jackhammer built in. To me at least, this is a very NC weapon.

Shotguns on Infiltrators is OP.
I’d wonder what the actual fear is and where we draw the line. A pump action on an infiltrator? Oh god no, no arguments there. A semi auto? They ‘re not as one-shotty since the nerf but probably still no. What if a one-shot was totally off the table?

Is it just the OHK we fear or the damage coming that suddenly? Infiltrators can already use SMGs, which are all capable of putting out some crazy high DPS at close range, most of which able to kill in under half a second without even involving headshots, and topped off with extremely accurate hip fire.

Shotgun damage potential drops off quickly with any kind of range also has pellet spread RNG to contend with. And we’re talking about a secondary fire-mode. It doesn’t have to keep place with a shotgun primary. I’d argue that so long as it can’t OHK, sits around a 2-3 shot kill profile and has an appropriate fire rate, even a tight spread shotgun that kept that potential out to 15m wouldn’t be any more unbalancing than an SMG infi.

Infiltrators already have access to a variety of semi-auto weapons and for the most part are never used.

Also with the straight bolt pull rail attachment and using a 4x No swap 0HK both action wpould get better results.

About Shotguns, No one wants to see a 0HK in the hands of cloaker and if it's not a 0HK weapon they would use a SMG instead.

While your ideas have merit it's a weapon that simply wouldn't be purchased.

I really don't agree with anything you said, especially liking the name railjack. We already have the Gauss SPR, which is perhaps the least used gun infiltrators have access to. The fact that even certed out, the 3rd shot never lands because of fire rate and the fact that the target moves after being hit the first time, coupled with the added diffaculty killing a target while moving, makes it lose out in everything but very specific situations.

Adding a shotgun to the gun i'm fine with, and do not understand why they don't just give us the shotgun attachment. It's a huge trade off with the new bolt attachments coming in, It's a 0hk under 10m, but is also on a primary (no stalker cloak) and in practice is very hard to get 0hk's with. As it stands i would like something that makes the new NC ESSR more then just an upgraded longshot, but i dont think this is the way. If it was like the TR/VS Semi auto's, then perhaps there is something to work with here.

They should just add more scope sway to it, plus longer scope stabilization.

That would actually make the Railjack a balanced weapon.

as i have said, mockingly before
this:

in all seriousness, i would not have an issue if the unscoped fire of the rifle was like a shotgun, with a large COF, and perhaps 9-10 pellets doing a total of x damage
then when scoped in the weapon's COF would almost disappear (as i think most other weapons do actually)

this would allow for a long range 1 shots, as the pellet spread would be tight enough to put most of the pellets on the head. the trade off is that it wouldn't be as reliable at extreme ranges in getting those one shots, but it WOULD have a higher hit probability if you messed up the lead.

ahem.
NO SHOTGUNS.
1. Its OP AS HELL with cloak or useless, no inbetween.
2. Nc is not the sodding shot gun faction.
3. Wobber you are getting tiresomely boring posting in every damn railjack thread, you are vanu, does not apply, go away, we get it you want to try get support to nerf other factions stuff, okey.
4.semi auto is not hard hitting, lo behold the real faction trait. Ever wonder why nc gets bilt driver baseline?? Uh huh.
No no and no.

I like semi autos one of few, i have 2.5k kills with gspr. But it does not suit nc.
Nc in lore favors gauss technology.
Its in most of the weapons.
Gauss = railgun.
Railgun = sniper rifles even irl when they.manage to harness the technology.

Railjack is fine.
You people are paranoid, especially wobber, get over it son.

yeah, Railjack will be fine because it will never be released in its current stat.

haha.. funny, but no.
see, i would rather have a decent fight across all three factions, than seeing VS buffed.

i recognize that 9/10ths of the Waterson VS's problems lie with the players, not the weapons they use. (the other 10% being everything else in the game)

and i am able to seperate my faction loyalty from game balance. An overpowered VS does no good for PS2 in the long run, nor would an overpowered TR or NC.

and most of all i want to see true asymmetrical balance take root. i WANT a terran/zerg/protoss style balance where only a small fraction of the weapons are essentially a palette swap.


My problems with the railjack stem not from SOE positioning the railjack as a long range ESSR, but because they did it by simply upgrading the longshot.

that's it.

make it Light AV capable.
make the projectile accelerate and do more damage the further you are away from the shooter
make it overpenetrate
make it shoot through walls for all i care

just make the thing INTERESTING.


and i have no idea how you cannot comprehend that simple fact that is the basis of my position on the weapon.
i sure as hell can't restate it to make it any clearer than i already have (multiple times)

Why do you care that its interesting if you will never use it??
Contradiction.
I don't mind nc posting and commeting ideas and the odd nerf comment but you man, you never cease. Never.
You also whined shade was useless and had a year long charge time til i put you right now you claim its to make it interesting when before it wa Op QQ?
Give over already.
You are like a broken record.

There's more difference between 500 and 650m/s in actual, live gameplay than there is between 650 and 850m/s. I really don't understand the histrionics here.

The changes the OP recommends would just make the gun a terrible, hugely overpriced Gauss SPR.

I still haven't heard a convincing argument as to why the velocity is a problem. It's basically just a Lancer with sway and a headshot multiplier and people whine up and down that the Lancer - the AV sniper - is downright useless. The T3 rifles are already effectively no drop - aim for he forehead and you're golden no matter the range.

If anything I'd like to see the velocity be replaced with something more unique, but so far "unqiue" to everybody has come down to "a terrible version of a pre-existing gun". Such as gaining 50m/s over the Longshot but losing chamber time and mag size while gaining no extra killing range, or becoming an SPR for 10x the price.

If it's going to be a high velocity railgun, I'd like it to be a no sway low-optic one with a small mag and slow chamber that's only a OHK out to 200m but does extra damage to MAXes and armor that takes small arms damage.

I agree peoples ideas are mostly trash.
Including yours at the end there no offence.
Low optics amd high chamber time......

Anyway yeah. Agree mostly.

It's unqiue, fun, and has a niche without being clearly a worse investment than the cheaper rifle already in that niche.

It's not fantastic, no, but neither is Longshot 2.0. I've already got a damn high velocity no-drop sniper rifle.

That said, I'd rather have the Longshot 2.0 than anything I've heard suggested. High alpha, high velocity, slow ROF is why I joined the NC damnit and that's what I want in an ES weapon. Of course I'd rather have an AMR like what I suggested, but if that's not on the table then count me among the current stat's are okay crowd.

Apologies for the wall of text, but if you're going to make list of contrary opinions you should expect them to all be addressed.

First, shotguns don't have to be OP. It's easy to think that way if you're only considering the shotguns currently available, but this would naturally be different. It's all about how the stats are weighted. As a secondary fire-mode, the point is to provide capability where the rifle component falls short, not outshine a primary weapons specialized for that singular task, incapable of doing anything else, and are balanced as such.

A shotgun fire mode can be weighted differently, and that provides more leeway and even avoid some of the restrictions on shotgun primaries. Without needing to be balanced to limit OHKs, It's entirely possible to produce a shotgun with a TTK in carbine territory, a reasonably tight spread, and pellets that maintain their damage further to offer a few more meters of useful range over the current lot.

Personally, I'd consider that to be exceptionally useful in any situation where I have to move with my squad to a closer battle without the need to run to their nearest terminal first to swap weapons to keep up.

And, no, NC isn't the shotgun faction, we're characterized by high impact weaponry offset by lower fire rates. Shotguns quite obvious hit on this, and there's not much else that does so blatantly. A semi auto sniper rifle utilizing gauss tech for high velocity, allowing for easier headshots directly translates into ease of access to higher impact shots.

Now, I too am an Gauss SPR users. First weapon I purchased and auraxed. It's not an NC weapon because it, like all other sniper rifles to date, are virtually identical between factions with a few small exceptions on the VS side. What I suggested here is what I feel an NC flavored semi-auto sniper rifle would look like. Since any further increase in damage would push it into OHK territory, the high impact nature of the weapon comes from a higher velocity providing ease of access to multipliers without it being necessary to hit the extremes of the current Railjack. This doesn't break with lore either, so I don't know why you brought it up.

And as for railgun tech growing into sniper rifles, this is a sniper rifle.

Disagree and masses would not want it.

Why do you disagree? You're of course welcome to do so, but it's not even worth saying if you don't bother explain your position.

Why do you believe the masses wouldn't want it? That's a pretty broad claim to make without anything to substantiate it.

put simply, no, i won't.

who says i won't roll an nc alt someday?
and honestly the thing going to shot AT me, i think i should be entitles to some opinion of the mechanics.

and about your comments about the shade, what changed my opinion was SOE's changes to the rifle, and their comments on what they wanted on the rifle. am i still totally happy with it? no, i'm not. i think i would be happiest with the TRAP, but that is that.
either way, the shade as it sits now is a better option than it was. your comments about how a bugged .5 second charge up had no effect on my opinion because my opinion was already changing by the time you made them.

my opinion is just as valid as yours, and i refuse to 'give it up' until someone from SOE tells me to.

i put much more stock in plague rat's opinion as to what infiltrators would want than yours.
for one he backs up his opinions with more than a single line of text.

other ideas that have been presented:
enabling the railjack to over penetrate to additional infantry targets
having the projectile accelerate as it travels (a railgun/gyrojet hybrid)
having the rifle shoot a small rocket that does high AOE/low target damage at close range and low-no aoe/high point target damage at long range
having the rifle act like a poor bolt driver in normal fire mode, but the rifle could charge for a high power, ammo hungry light AV/ anti max shot.

there are others out there i can't remember.
the fact is that it looks like SOE wants the NCESSR to be a dedicated long range engagement weapon. (probably one of the reasons they pulled the shotgun)
any creative feedback we have in that direction should be given with that in mind.

What about the original shotgun plan. What if the railjack shotgun spread mode was only noticeable at range? Not sure how hard it would be for SOE to do... as I do not know the specifics of how they have some of these things coded... but if in a CQC situation it was still the same as a normal shot (due to the distance not being enough for the spread to really occur) it would prevent the fear of the class having shotguns. At range, the sum of the pellets could add up to the damage of a normal shot.

Heck, let all the factions have their own charge up mechanic... NC gets what I describe above on charge up... TR get more bullets (3 round burst etc).

To be honest... I am not concerned about the something being overpowered from the start. I know it will get fixed if it is... always does with time. I just want the Shade as planned with a for x4 scope

Good luck to everyone on what the final out come brings... may we all be happy (ish)

Oh great so "one mil dot at max range", call me stunned

Oh, I've backed it up. It's just the same arguments back and forth and nobody has presented me with anything like evidence that the Railjack is anywhere near OP. I don't give two damns who you trust or don't because I'm not looking at it from a 12x bush wookie's point of view, I'm looking at it from a balance point of view because this is the TEST SERVER forum and not the INFILTRATOR forum


- Shooting through people would be worthless. This would come up so rarely as to make the rifle niche even at 100 certs

- Having a staggered acceleration is horrible. The Enforcer used to the have it and it was unusable. It provides no benefit because the max speed is a) never reached and b) isn't even above average and makes it much, much harder to aim

- Low damage and small mag have no place together if a weapon is going to not be terrible, and gyro rockets are too slow to be used for anything like long distances

- A semi-auto with high velocity but no capacity to operate at ranges where velocity matters. Zero capabilities to one shot, and thus a worse TTK than the Gauss SPR/Impetus/SAS-R because it takes so much longer between shots. This sounds to me like a terrible gun.

- And your idea, which is a bad version of a free gun in one mode, with the option to switch to the AMR I described earlier but was dismissed as a terrible idea. Cool.

Also, why is everybody throwing up their arms and going full hysterical over the Railjack - which has SOME bullet drop and which is apparently also NO bullet drop and is OP AS HELL - while the Shade (unless something dramatic has changed about it in the last few days and hasn't been mentioned in the Shade thread) has LITERALLY NO BULLET DROP, NOT EVEN A LITTLE, BUILT IN FOR FREE, 100% OF THE TIME

Why is this such a big damn deal? I still haven't heard why 3/4 of a mil dot at 300m is a game breaker, especially when the VS are getting a gun that requires no adjustment at any range. Not even 1/4 of a mildot!

Like I said, all of the ideas so far seem to have the end result of "gun that would be okay if it were free I guess" which is not really where I want the NC ESSR to end up. 3 shot kill in the best case scenario with a long time between shots

@epic

Bullet velocity and damage too high for a weapon with no real drawbacks.