If ONK kinfes are not acceptable, then why are OHK shotguns accpetable

I like the direction the devs seem to want to go with being able to pull your knife out and all that. However I think OHK knives are a horrible idea in this game for one very specific reason; infiltrators.

I don't care how "skilled" he is. There's nothing challenging about shooting somebody who can't shoot back, much less something that entitles you to kills because muh skillz. If somebody can instantly kill you in a scenario where you would not be able to shoot back, that's just a bad experience. AV MANA turrets never get a free pass for their BS. Why do BASRs?

So you're complaining about someone Who is able to calculate Bullet drop, to hit a Tiny pixel in their screen.

Yeah that's OP

Anyways, AV Turrets, could OHK anywhere, It didn't need to be a head shot, They could be guided, and could hit you when they where not rendered.

Limiting the odds of it happening doesn't make it any less frustrating when it happens. The problem is that you can't counter it through self-improvement. It's better if players die from their own mistakes and improve from recognizing these mistakes rather than the luck and/or trial and error of a "skilled" player. Player agency and counter play is good. "That dude is MLG pro, you deserved to die" is not good.

There is a counter to most snipers: Keep moving

If you stand still you should die.

Heck even if you're moving he deserves the kill for his aim. But Whats the difference from far away or right next to you? There's no way you could prevent it anyway. Another thing is that if say . . . Elusive came and wrecked your platoon with a BASR, What makes you think he would have a problem wrecking you w/ A LMG? Same goes w/ snipers.
If you gave them AV turrets, they would dominate because it was easier to hit people.

You need to be able to aim to use a sniper, And if you cannot aim, you fail.

Hard counters just do not work against this, If say you shot an ESF with your Deci, and he had "DECIMATOR PROTECTION" and he lived, would you like that?

(The answer is NO)

And you can, You create a Non Predictable movement pattern, and most snipers will leave you alone, except for the dedicated few, And what can you do about them anyway?

Its like a Heavy soloing a squad.

If he has better aim, better evasiveness, better anything he should win. Most snipers have better aim, But are rather easy to counter snipe.

This applies to just about every situation in every shooter.

And this is what I'm complaining about. High risk high reward weapons are almost consistently the most annoying and unbalanced weapons to fight against, in every game. An abundance of them usually makes for a short-lived game.

I'm not a fan of hard counters to begin with, but if that was a thing, I wouldn't think much of it because I never really expect to hit ESFs when I take potshots at them with decis anyway. I don't exactly feel annoyed that I don't one-shot ESFs with crossbows, either. Why should I feel any worse about it for rocket launchers?

Staying mobile and being unpredictable is shooter 101. However, you can shoot back at a heavy assault that's poking his head around a corner. Not much you can do against some invisible guy sitting behind a rock 250 meters away. When I die to a heavy, it's very easy to assess what went wrong and how to better prepare myself going into that sort of situation in the future. When I die to the other guy though, it's not much different from those moments where you're peacefully driving along in your tank, and suddenly you explode from "suicide".

When that happens, it's due to the squad in question having a total lack of communication and situational awareness. That's the squad's fault for being bad. That's good. A heavy should not be able to solo his way through 15 people at once through pure twitch aim.

The game is so jittery when trying to snipe at anything over 50m in big fights, I'd be surprised anyone is actually long range sniping these days.

Honestly, the way I currently see it, as a Stalker, if I can kill someone with those knives, I would have killed that one twice with my gun...

Not going to cry about it if it never make it live in this current form.

My estimate is this:
The knives will come with serious downsides, they'll be loud, flashy, and obvious once completed. People will try to use them for a couple of days and then abandon the idea when they realize they're not worth using. Infiltrators will complain for weeks about it since the knife is another toy intended to make stalker infiltrators useful, and eventually SOE will lower the sound level a little bit to compensate for these complaints.

What bothers me is this lashing out against freaking melee weapons in this game. Situational melee weapons that put the player at a huge disadvantage to have them out. You can't attack the opponent at 5m away. You can't run while slashing, and there will be a sound to identify you to people who are listening. There will not be a use in 'oh ****' moments since the knife will need to be prepped ahead of time for this usage. This weapon basically makes you a giant target, a beacon telling your opponents to pull out their darklights to hunt you down, and will likely not be as annoying as people are making it out to be. The new knives are nifty, but they don't add any functionality to an encounter that I couldn't already do with an xbow+knife or 2 quick-knife swings. You're complaining about something we can already do like it's a new feature.

I do think some stalkers will use it even if it's not enough efficient, because of the "backstabbing" feel.

LA will always be ready to jump in crowd, swinging OHK knife, regardless of having C4, type of primary etc. Same with stalker. Main problem with such knife - it has no downsides. You can keep it 100% of the time on you and use when appropriate, while losing no good equipment slot. You can be infil with basr, beamer, medkits, decoy nades and still have spammable OHK option with infinite ammo.

Equip time ?
Activation time ?
Sound ?
Low swing speed ?

Plus the fact that the infil will have to backstab you, or you have a high window of opportunity to kill him.
Honestly, I think I'll keep my less powerfull, but faster swinging and 100% stealthy knife.

I feel this "issue" more of a placebo effect than a real issue.
People are afraid of OHK because they think a lone guy will be able to decimate an entire squad, yet underestimate both the downsides of said OHK weapon and the situational awareness of said squad.

If you're killed 2-3 times a row by an OHK knife, I think you'll adapt your gameplay and improve your situational awareness...

What primary or secondary weapon or strong explosive item will change its equip/activation time if you have OHK knife? Losing stock knife isnt big deal for 99% players.
Somehow I dont see roadkilling wraith flashes, PAS or C4 LAs, pizza infils getting perfectly countered after 2-3 successful runs. These tactics will keep working, because there's only so many things you can be aware of in a big fight.

Player simply can sit near doorframe and scratch leg of any enemy passing by to rack up kills. Unless activated knife constantly emits LOUD sound, which wont be the case.

From my limited testings, it's actually the case.

Not activated = no OHK and slower swing (less efficient)
Activated = Sound all the time (pretty distinct) and still slower swing.

Not to mention that the knife can't be activated when cloaked (for the moment).

But not loud, easy to not notice it with all stuff going around. If it was huge chainsaw with deafening clatter it would solve at leat door campers, yet crowd dancers would still be a problem. IMO it introduces more cheese and nothing tactically interesting.

1. Remove Quicknife
2. Add equip knife
3. Balance the damage and rate of knifing (no OHK)

Solved

*Incoming ****storm from COD kiddies who cant live without quickknifes*

I'm fine with OHK knives, if we get a block button that always works and completely nullifies any frontal knife attack.

Really, most rifles should be more effective melee weapons than a six inch knife. Some idiot with a steak knife comes at me while I'm holding a long gun and chances are he'll have a fractured skull before he gets within arms reach.

Game needs spears. I'd be afraid of a spear.

This game needs plate armor, shields and maces
Joking no dont break the game now SOE its pretty balanced right now and fun to play.

Ammo, reload, recoil, map showing, sound, General aim, no cloaking, it's equivalent 2 shot is effective, bullet velocity. Just to name a few.

Who cares for OHK Knifes on Stalker infiltrators? A good stalker can kill you with a fart in your face, when he gets behind you, no matter if it needs 1 hit or 3. There is no way you get away, no matter what method he uses... unless he fails and makes a mistake...