I seriously don't understand how devs think this is fair

It all depends on how often the weapon is used...if the JH is used more often (as I think it is), of course it's going to have more kills. It's an unimpressive shotgun using the normal fire mode (other shotguns are better) and using the 3x burst option, it's great in CQC but useless at any range. In other words, it's very situational.

The other ESF weapons are also very situational. I think those weapons require a different playstyle that will take longer to adopt, but the players that do use them and have "figured them out" swear by them.

******' a.

It's like saying the Kaiser's U-Boats are overpowered because they have a high KDR compared to a Virginia class.

already pointed out in post #54 plus added the "Average Stats Per Hour" =/= "Average Stats Per last 72 hours" fact

Ummm. No. The jackhammer is a shotgun. Situational. And should be treated as such.

The chaingun (I haven't used it) I assume works like a sidegrade to an LMG. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The lasher is for crowd control at the expense of straight killing power. I haven't used this outside of the VR, but I've seen it used to great effectiveness by my enemies.

It's usefulness isn't about killing things. It's for suppressing your enemies advances. The splash damage might not do much, and it might not rake in the kills like you would expect, but if I'm at a choke point preparing to push forward but I'm taking taking damage from behind cover, I won't advance forward. Not when the average TTK from full health is less and 2 seconds (far less under focused fire).

So it's situational. Big deal. If we judge the jackhammer like that, then it's garbage as well since it is completely irrelevant outside that 5-10m range. I also don't get why you complain about it. You already have good LMG's to use for straight killing power (I hear the orion is pretty snazzy), why would you complain about an extra weapon that lets you do something that the other factions LMsGs can't do?


Anyways, don't compare apples and oranges.

Am I the only one who thinks that since the Jackhammer is CQC and used in that role that it should have a high amount of kills while it is used. I do agree that the Lasher needs a buff to be close to the T7 Maybe give back some of it accuracy and increase its ROF a bit more.

NC would feel even more screwed though. We really feel like it is us against the world. Just us our Vanguards vs the world. We like it that way.

people use the lasher as a striaght up head to head weapon. it is a suppression weapon.

1. find cover
2. fire into choke point
3.????
4. profit

lol the Jackhammer is sitautional? That's like saying rocket pods are situational. The Jackhammer is the best CQC weapon, inside 20m it's one of the most competitive, and it's also viable up to 30m. That's one heck of a nice situation to be in. Then again, I guess it can't snipe people. So no charging across the wide open plains with it.

Regardless of how good the Jackhammer is, I don't even want to get in to how biased your statement was btw, it doesn't change the stats on the Lasher. And the stats on the Lasher are not up to par yet.

I say we give the Lasher, MCG, and JH to every empire for a month. Free trial to everyone. Let's tally up a fresh batch of statistics, and start buffing/nerfing accordingly. I doubt you NC would want that. Would you?

Lasher counter:

1. Move
2. Move
3. ???
4. Move

cool, no need to be rude. It wasn't in the screen shot.

As has already been pointed out, there are better shotguns than the jackhammer that all factions can use (JH has lowest max damage, slower ROF than other shotguns). The one thing the JH DOES have is the 3x burst option, but that is useless at any range of consequence, as the recoil and cool down make it so inaccurate.

And don't discount range--if range didn't matter, everyone would be using a shotgun all the time. The JH is nerfed for damage and normal ROF, but has been buffed for a situational ROF overhaul that makes it a great choice for CQC.

Not our fault you don't know how to use the Lasher.

Ok.. here's the deal.

The situations under which these weapons are used are very different. They are not quite as different as a sniper rifle and a shotgun, but different enough to make them not comparable. Jackhammers are indoors close range.. mini is a bit longer distance, and lasher goes quite a ways..

Most lasher users seem to prefer area denial and suppressive uses for those weapons.. where as the jackhammer and mini chaingun are used to pwn folks up close and personal in CQC. This parallels their use in PS1 btw. And even the mini and jackhammer are different. Paired with concussion grenades, the mini chaingun is fearsome.. so many bullets available to hose a room down. Jackhammer? It is a super shotgun.. the ultimate gun if you are going for a low TTK in CQC.

Basically, I'm not surprised by the numbers given above.. at all. The weapons are asymmetric by design.

Finally.. I'm rarely killed by any of these weapons.. seems like most folks understand the situational nature of these weapons and only unpack them for those rare occasions.. although lately I've seen a lot more lashers.

The only thing all this proves is that the weapons are different. There is no secret plan to disfavor VS.. so take that tin foil hat off. And go look at Matherson at night.. VS does just fine even with their 'sub-standard' lasher (which is not sub-standard).

The Flare. With an extended clip. That is a kill-stick.

only read so far down but this cracked me up. What weapons are not meant to kill people?

Take any VS shotgun add slug ammo, laser, X4 scope.

Now go play shotgun sniper while still having nearly the best hipfire weapons in game.

Then come back and tell us if you think that's fair?

No bullet drop + no damage drop on a shotgun seems a interesting combo.

Lol I've bet you never used a VS slug shotgun before in your life. Go try it out and come back to delete your ignorant post.

I miss Cupboy. Someone needs to actually maintain the game statistics like he once did.

Anyway, if trends maintained from his old sheet, then the Lasher is markedly worse than the other HA weapons.
Visibly it seems like it they did, hard to say with certainty.

Seriously though, screw the people who keep thinking kills/player is a useful statistic.

Spreadsheet Soldiers, reporting for duty.

Give me some tips then, please, because I can't kill **** up close without taking out half of my own life, and if I try to use it for area denial I kill every ally who gets in range because they're blind to the incoming plasma.

Notice how the JackHammer has a higher fire count

You are misreading that look at the decimal place: 318.87 vs 1312.8(cutoff)

One: flak armour
Two: Its not going to work unless you've got unit cohesion on your side, its not a normal weapon and can't be wielded as such or you will suck. If you want an idea of what I mean by cohesion take a look at our Atlas squad training video (its from our beginning days so its a little obsolete)