I seriously don't understand how devs think this is fair

The Lasher isn't very effective - the VS got the short end of the straw with the empire specific heavy weapon. They also got shafted with the Lancer which is also gank. Still the ZoE MAX module is decent.

Lol, once again, another noob has no idea that Overall Stats =\= Average Stats per Hour. Typical NC

Dont nobody complain about my lasher! Love that freakin thing. Only VS weapon i use when I play VS! That and the lancer (LOOOOOOVE that bloody AV weapon. Nothing compares!) As for the NC weapon, OP need more data! Recent data, too. ;D

http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantrytype/chain_gun/all/per-hour

Look at the MCG player count and fire count. It's a piece of **** alright.

Its a bullet hose cannon, what do you expect?

As others have said, without assist data this debate it utterly meaningless. Jackhammer will have next to nothing there, Lasher and MCG will plow ahead massively.

So you don't get the kill. YOU HAVE SQUAD SUPPORT WEAPONS, Nc have autoshotgun electric boogaloo. Its not bad far from it, but i'd rather have a squad support weapon.

While I agree that to compare the Jackhammer to the MCG to the Lasher is completely irrelevant, the Lasher is still not a competitive weapon. The TTK on the direct hits from the Lasher is horrible. No other weapon takes more skill to use correctly than the Lasher. If it had a minimum TTK of .7 instead of .8 on direct hits, which would be 4 shots to kill instead of 5, it would be a much better competitive option. That slight decrease in TTK would take the Lasher from one of the worst weapons in the game, to at least being viable.

The Jackhammer is extremely competitive. It's infinitely more competitive than the Planetside 1 version, and people complained about that constantly. The MCG is pretty dang close, and the Lasher still needs a little tweaking yet. They're almost there, but not quite the iconic weapons you would expect. You can't compare, nor can you balance them to each other. They're all completely different weapons. You can, however, balance them against ease of use and general skill level.

All that being said, I highly doubt many of you have even used a Lasher. Let alone used it long enough to comment on what it can and cannot do.

btw reducing the number of orbs to kill from 5 to 4 would be equal to a 20 damage buff on direct hits only. It wouldn't effect your "area denial" that you guys love to flock too whenever someone mentions the Lasher. It would equate to an 80 damage increase over the entire TTK. Which is further mitigated by flak and nanoweave armor. Yes flak armor does reduce the damage of the Lasher by about 35 damage per shot. Before you go crying OP! OP! just process that for a second.

in this statistic is one important number missing!

how many persons are using this weapon?
if this isnt set, it would be possible to say the flaregun is the best gun compared with all the other guns..
this would be possible, if thousends of people use the flare gun, while ervery other wepon is just jused from a few hundert people.

and on miller the lasher is a weapon i didnt see that often....

so to improve this statistic and let it speak the truth here is an option to make it compare able:

build groups of lets say 100 people for each gun, and then then build an average case of all this 100 people groups.
(for example group 1 kill 980 people in the time, while group 2 kill 1020 so in average case they kill 1000 people in a hour)
With the results of this calculations you will be able to compare the guns. but the statistik postet by the OP is ********

And another noob strikes again with ignorance and stupidity!
Protip: number of people is already factored into the average stats per hour

The Jackhammer is more of a specialist weapon because, well, it's a shotgun, and therefore really only useful inside 25m. Otherwise known as "biolabs." The MCG is more versatile overall, and the Lasher is sort of the opposite of the Jackhammer in that you don't use it in CQC, you use it at medium/long ranges for suppression. I also see a LOT more TR heavies using the MCG than NC heavies using the Hammer until you get into a biolab fight. Just look at the playtime comparison. The MCG and Lasher both have almost four times the hours played of the JH, if you look at OmegaPREDATOR's post upthread.

We have waited a long time for a nerf the Jackhammer thread.

Theres a big diference between seeing a can of coke being throwed and a baseball

I got it by default and still don't bother to use it.

This makes kills with the Lasher all the more sweet for me, and humiliating to the target.

http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantry/ read the info section people.

Now I might be wrong but I do not believe he has a table setup for recent activity and is basing his stats off the entire database. Which means that release, pre-buff and post-buff stats are all combined together. That is going to give you some in-accurate current stats. Then add to it environmental factors, such as player experience, number of enemies, zone fighting in, alert types, etc. etc. (this isn't such a big problem but it does change stats)

So your stats show past information and you are trying to use them as an argument for current status of weapons. Well your logic is flawed in that there is no timeline to show the current stat, just some misguided delusion that "Average Stats Per Hour" = "Average Stats Per last 72 hours". (or whatever timeframe you want to measure from)

Now I'm not trying to attack you personally, just pointing out that the stats are flawed and that others should see this flaw. Maybe one day he will release weekly info for weapons or something along those lines, but until then please take any stats you see with a grain of salt.

Could it be, now bear with me, that the NC and Vanu have found that ducking from the mini chain gun is a good idea, that the Vanu typically can't be bothered learning how to Lasher, and the TR and VS have yet to figure out that running up to an NC with a shotgun to knife them is a terrible idea.

That's what yesterdays stats could indicate. There may also be a slight chance that those with Jackhammers choose to only pull them where appropriate (aka Biolabs), hence a better kill / hour ratio.

This entire thread is a waste of space however, given that the source used for the statistics varies so wildly and is questionable at best. Look it up.

I was going to comment on that post earlier, but I figured, not everyone is that ignorant.
THen I saw where someone showed that NC had low actual kills, with lesser players. But the person doesn't account the time. Trying to say some logic stuff this and that. I had to shake my head.

In fact its stupid thread because all these weapons different with different objectivies
Lasher positioned as weapon for suppression, not to kill, that its bad for this objective - another question to SOE
JackHammer best in Bio and to kill enemy noobs that so close near yr resp room
TMC good because his medium range for the most situations, its really suck at CQC, but as HA with shield its not problem vs any notHA classes and with this sound every enemy know that near enemy TR HA and he will play more carefull.

These weapons are the most effectieve as support role(And jackhammer too)

despite VS heavys having the best LMGs i rarely see vs players on waterson play heavys. i see mostly light assaults and infiltrators and then medics as the primary fragging force. The faciton i see the most heavys is TR and i dont see too many TR infiltrators and i think on my server NC has a good balence of classes but we could use a a bit more medics and less infiltrators and light assaults.

Has anyone pointed out yet that ps2-stats uses data dating back to launch and that most of it is completely ******* irrelevant today?

I think you're the first. Also the stats are completely devoid of context.

How long does someone have to use a weapon to be counted in the stats? Less time using it would imply less knowledge in how to use it. This would particularly affect the lasher.

Do the stats include people sitting around with the weapon doing nothing? More general purpose weapons would logically be more likely to pick while regrouping. This would affect the MCG.

Where were the weapons actively used?
Is average the best indicator of how effective the weapons are? What is the median, the standard deviation? Are the stats being changed by a large number of short duration users, a small number of skilled users?

These stats are useless beyond a curiosity.