I really hate C4

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Weylin, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. LordKrelas

    Anything with enough health to not be solo'd by anything infantry-wise has enough health to survive.... quite a bloody lot.
    As well, you then make it a choice between a Shield or enough health to be unguarded & still survive near anything.

    Shield Sunderers...
    Usually take a lot of people to destroy.
    Or singular tanks.
  2. Zuprize

    A 2/2 MBT would destroy it thou with not much trouble, tank buster lib+ 1 or 2 dalton shots. So in general it's still easy to kill a sundee if it's unguarded and when it gets swarmed it would still survive a bit longer yet same result it would still die. There would be downsides to this, but I think it would actually make gameplay more interesting.

    A deploy shield does make it harder to solo the sundee but if there is some constant damage done to it after the shield goes down it pretty much game over for the sundee while a resist type shield would be constant and easier to sustain it's health while no weapons on the sundee offer the sidegrade of the ability. This also make intentional TK to not happen so easy and makes vehicle support more important since vehicles do more damage over time so a bit of combine arms right there.

    Also just view it as a extra ability, people can still chose all the other variants, they don't need to pick the no weapon ability if they don't think it would help the situation since I am sure this wont fit to every situation planetside battles have to offer.
  3. LordKrelas

    If it can resist everything infantry has, it can last long enough for infantry to demolish a MBT that isn't at long range.
    Also means, they need to defend it less, since even if they suck at a proper defensive line, nothing but vehicular threats can even down it.

    A shield is regenerative but has delays to this regeneration after damage.
    It isn't all that grand against vehicular threats - But it works against infantry, not perfectly but that's the point.
    If you had a shield you could basically repair, capable of only dying to numerous infantry or vehicles...
    Why bother with a shield?

    In low pop fights, you'd not even need to defend the sunderer all that much, forcing them to literally need a tank just to attack an sunderer unguarded for the most part.

    Like come on.
    A deliberate TK is more unlikely than sane, and would bring a ******* tank if they wanted it dead.
    Vehicle Support?
    Attackers have the advantage in vehicles...
    In Small fights, it's unlikely the sunderer is even properly defended which is why it dies.
    If it requires vehicles, you're going to see small fights be steam rolled if they can block enemy vehicles.

    Extra ability?
    Defense against anything but a 2-man main battle tank vs what exactly?
    Regenerative shield with a balanced delay, that already blocks solo-attacks... but isn't repair-able, and has a delay.
    Isn't foolproof either, unlike the whole Massive health pool which makes it more durable against vehicle attacks as well.
    After all, in order to resist everything infantry has, and not explode - It needs a **** load of health.

    Two of these are in the same business.
    Only one grants perfect immunity; And that one is only your idea.
  4. Eternaloptimist

    Time for another patch I think. The enormous arguments about the rocket rifle, thermal sights and the new implant system were an entertaining and sometimes informative diversion while they lasted.

    Then we are back to the same old grind: C4, ZOE, VS weapons UP, NC Max no long range weapons. I know they are really big concerns for the people most involved but there seems little more to add to the (long-standing) debate. We need something new and fresh to have a big ole' row about ;).

    Anyone heard when we might expect the new combined arms initiaitve to go live? That promises to fundamentally redefine the tanks vs infantry argument, at least.
    • Up x 1
  5. Zuprize

    It's not really immunity, I did say it would go somewhat bad in small fights, but for medium-large battles it would be decent, I was thinking more like 5 tank mines under it would take it to 5%, until/unless the PTS changes go live the current multiple different resists could be used for it. I don't know, just giving an idea, I'm sure most people realize that now in big battles it's really hard to keep a sundee up and those battles make the game feel really special. Specially the outdoor big fights.

    A very resistant deployed spawn point can't be that bad, I mean why would it? The base building spawn tube is pretty much the same thing and you can spawn on it from anywhere on the continent if the base has that antena and is under atack, it makes for a weird spawn camp fest once atackers get to it but that's the only thing people complain about it, at least a sundee has 4 spawn positions next to it, not just 1. Maybe make a bigger no deploy zone for my suggested idea so there wont be 5 spamed near a big base, maybe also reduce the repair speed on said sundee also.

    If you think about it, in small fights one can take he's own sundee to counter atack a connected base and have the same advantage trying to back cap it, if anything they can just try a PTS version and we can see how it would go with the new PTS vehicle changes in place.
  6. Neo3602

    Not too much longer according to this:
    • Up x 1
  7. DeadlyOmen

    No row to be had.

    If they're really doing what they're talking about, the players will not be around anymore.
  8. LordKrelas

    In large fights, you will always have the Sunderer die - It's a matter of time.
    It's a fact that the enemy intends to destroy them - It doesn't matter how much you try to block AV weapons, it's gonna happen.
    In Small fights, you should lose the Sundy if you can't kill 1 bloody lone wolf - As it ain't hard to stop 1 nutjob.

    In large fights, the number of allied engineers also increase with the allied presence, which makes defense simple.
    If it can survive easily anything thrown at it without engineer support, when used properly, it just won't die till out-numbered to hell.
    Or **** loads of tanks.

    We have a resistant Spawn - it's called the Shield Sundy, however it's durability can't be reinforced by repairs since it ain't health based.
    Like have you never used one? It takes a lot to die.
    But enough health to survive anything thrown at it by infantry? That includes a **** load of explosives at once for raw damage.
    Unlike the shield which survives sheer force by the regeneration, your concept just has enough health to defeat it all.
    This means, that vehicles will have a harder time as well, and it's easier to just out-repair whatever else is there.
    It also means idiots will not defend the sunderer even more, thinking it's immune to intelligent players.

    The Spawn tube needs logistics.
    It doesn't also bloody move, or have defensive guns.

    Oh look mentioning of spawn camping.
    Did you realize that it takes 1 single person to guard a Shield sundy against any solo player?
    And the sundy will live.
    If the sundy by itself can literally take anything thrown at it (most of which requires complete exposure to any allies), IE unguarded still survives regardless of what is shot at it... then any bright person who guards the sundy amps this durability up.

    If it can survive everything by health alone, then no tactic but brute force or vehicles would work.
    Which if the enemy has the numeric advantage, means Sundy is immortal.
    If enemy has the vehicular advantage, or simply a MBT guarding it or hell, any AV, then a singular vehicle is even more useless than usual.
    Which means, in order to blow it up, you must have the firepower to be the attacker - Good luck.
  9. GetOutOfDodge

    As someone who primarily plays light assault, it would basically kill our class if C4 was less powerful. It's more about the balance of gameplay than trying to be a battle sim, otherwise vehicles would be tremendously overpowered and it would usually be foolish to not use a vehicle. C4 can still be avoided if you move your vehicle a little and/or have radar and watch the minimap.
  10. RadarX

    There aren't currently plans to adjust C4 right now. Certainly we appreciate feedback and understand some classes appreciate it more than others. We appreciate the feedback for sure and let us know if you have ideas, the team certainly will see them.
    • Up x 1
  11. LaughingDead

    As someone that plays light assault extensively I completely disagree. Light assaults do not revolve around C4, you do not need C4 to kill vehicles and in fact I avoid using C4 because I have a rocklet rifle. The only time I ever use it is in infantry combat and even then I prefer medkits.
    According ps2 fisu I have 800+ kills with C4 (even when I'm avoiding using it)and less than 150 of those are vehicles, while my total is over 12k now and more than half are as infantry, you do not need it to kill vehicles, at all.
  12. GetOutOfDodge

    Alright, you just play differently than I do then. I've played PS2 since 2013 and have thousands of C4 kills across all my characters. It's integral to the way I play, as well as the way many other light assaults play. Fortunately, as RadarX said, nothing will be changing anytime soon. The larger point of my post was that C4 isn't OP anyway.
  13. Weylin

    Isn't OP? And that's why its better at killing everything than frag grenades are at just infantry?

    C4 are for demolishing structures.
    AV mines are for destroying vehicles.
    Frag grenades are for killing infantry.

    But right now? C4 does it all, and it does it really ******* effectively.
    So it loses some range and doesnt detonate automatically? Those aren't even downsides, just situational differences. Sometimes you WANT an explosive that doesn't bounce out a window and invariably kill an ally rounding the corner.
  14. Demigan

    As long as most infantry AV weapons are weaksauce and incapable of properly engaging and finishing off vehicles C4 will remain a necessity.

    "But mah Sunderer!"
    What about it? You can defend a Sunderer. Proper defensive options like shield and blockade will prevent easy destruction, and you don't have to sit in the gun seats 24/7 to protect it either not should you need to do that. Place a Spitfire, perhaps place a mine or two and anyone spawning on it will have a warning signal. Only a truly undefended Sunderer can be killed by an LA if you have blockade or shield equipped, it takes too long to kill it not to get gunned down quickly.
    And if your Sunderer still dies... So what? It needs to die to something. A single HE Lightning can already ruin a defended shield/blockade Sunderer, which an LA can't. I don't see a problem with LA having the power to murder Sunderers. It's not "too easy" to get close. Yes it's a lot easier to reach the Sunderer compared to other things, but you are also a lot more vulnerable and more likely to be behind enemy lines/surrounded by enemies rather than pushing up and having support when blowing up the Sundy.
    Giving Sunderers more protection so a single Infantryman can't destroy a Sunderer will immensely overpower Sunderers in smaller fights.
  15. LaughingDead

    You're basically saying it's a brick with a jetpack, even if it wasn't OP, saying the class would lose all of it's power without C4 says one of two things:
    1. C4 is ridiculous
    2. Light assault is a bad class

    It's not even like I'd like it to be less useful, I'd just not instant ******** that you can't react to no matter how hard you try. And yes, I can play around libs, other tanks, maxes, I can play around other vehicles and avoid lines of sight so they have no way of killing me in a base as infantry. C4? I can't just always look up, just to test it I did in fact nail two C4 on a tank out of spitfire and radar range so I CAN avoid both easily and consistently land it, but my tank can't just play indoors or out of sight on a light assault when I'm a massive hunk of metal with a loud *** gun.

    Maybe if it was locked from light assault specifically, maybe if it was better at destroying turrets and cripples a base or towers defenses so they couldn't be repaired instantly (ya know an actual team play mechanic that the light assault does better than anyone else), destroying player objects, one shotting modules, just not insta-I win because you could hide behind a rock while a tank was focusing down another vehicle, maybe if it had some other massive game changing function like opening up routes of entry into bases (another thing light assault could do that motivates teamplay!) maybe if it wasn't a cure all to every situation, room full of people? C4. tank? C4. Max? C4. Sunderer? C4. The whole point of specialization is so that you excelled in situations that you were designed for, C4 in a lights hands is a cure for everything, that's bad.

    I have no clue what you're doing wrong, rocket launchers or rocklet rifle isn't weaksauce, hell I even archer planes out of the sky, it's hilarious to watch them panic.
    C4 being premiere AV is about as necessary as a double sided ***** bat for the max.

    All the tools are there, rocklets for bursty quick dps from above, heavies with launchers from afar or close with the deci, what exactly are you doing to make you believe that these tools are weak sauce?
    • Up x 2
  16. Demigan

    Yes ofcourse they aren't weaksauce! That's why despite being the most used and available AV weapon, the HA rocketlaunchers barely show up on the entire kill list. Oh wait yes, rocketlaunchers barely get to destroy anything.

    You are becoming more and more a troll, making weird statements. In no way is the Archer a good G2A weapon, and the two ESF you ever downed with one because the pilot was a noob and rammed the ground do not make it so.

    C4 being primary AV for infantry is extremely necessary. Rocklets? Even from behind the "bursty quick" damage is bullcrap. one Rocklet burst isn't a lot more damaging than a single rocket and it requires much more danger to actually damage the tank. Heavies firing rockets is more a way to draw attention and get killed then it is to kill vehicles.
    • Up x 2
  17. Liewec123

    the only time i hate c4 is when i'm playing max,

    with the exception of the odd jump pad drifter if i get my vehicle c4ed i consider it a l2p issue on my part,
    i'd driven too close or wasn't looking around.

    for max however it is RIDICULOUS,
    450 resources for the slowest unit in the game and you're dead to a single c4 within 30 seconds.
    a single c4 should take a max to 30% hp at most.
    don't tell us that maxes are the breaching class if we're just going to get instantly oneshotted by 4/5 classes...
    • Up x 2
  18. OldMaster80

    While I agree c4 should be placed carefully and not just thrown like candies, yeah it's very easy to defend against that.

    You forgot to mention the EOD HUD implant and the Scout Radar. With that and a little awareness C4 fairies life becomes a nightmare.
    • Up x 1
  19. FateJH

    Back at the end of formal Beta, the Dalton (even the Zepher) flattened almost anything it was flown over just by virtue of getting close enough that the gunner could turn towards it. Its results dwarfed most other things. Any weapon can be a "weak weapon" when compared to another weapon that is stronger than it, especially if it statistically trivalitizes the other's engagement time.
    • Up x 1
  20. LodeTria

    Sunderers not being able to survive a single LA is one of the many reasons why attacking is so hard in this game and why everyone just plays Zerg-side/re-deploy-side now.

    Also no, making sunderer resistant is how you get small fights to happen, rather than now where they don't because you just kill the sunderer easily and the fights mostly over.