I HAVE IT! I have found our TOOL!!!!!

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by McMan, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. CrYpT-WeeD204

    the only tool i can see a LA having that might work out is something like infiltrator has, a gun that shoots a dart that only works on maxes and vehicles like a emp it stops them for like 2-3 seconds. and only has one round and make it take nanites per use and cant refill via amopack. be fun to see planes fall out of the sky if they cant recover fast enough after the dart hits them
  2. Touja

    So what we are looking for are under two different categories, Self-help and Squad help. I think coming up with a tool that helps the LA on its own is actually something easier to do then what the LA can bring to help their squad. The problem is, will the tool be helpful enough to bother with or will it break to many other parts of the game.

    Just a couple of ideas to explore...

    Self-help tools:
    Booster Chargers (Something that could be fun to use but not 100% needed)
    Instantly recharges the jetpack of the LA to 25/50/75/100%
    These would be refiled at resupply terminals for nanites
    These would gain more charges/amount carried with a cert tree (Same as Grenades/C4)
    These can’t be used during flight(possible balance reasons of places you should not reach?)

    EMP Shielding (I know one of the annoying things when I play LA is getting drained all the time, but giving up some of the other implants is just hard to do)
    Protects the fuel of the jetpack from being drained by EMP Pulses
    Amount of protection scales with cert tree 15/30/50/75% (I don’t think it should offer 100% protection though)

    Squad-help tool:
    Air defense shield (A dome shield that gets deployed that only protects from the top)
    This would provide some much needed cover against ground pounding aircraft to squads and also provides a bit of defense to the LA when on the roof. Since this would be a limited are maybe air craft could still spray around the outside of the shield to get splash damage. Or aim from the side to ignore the upper cone defenses. Also possibly roll grenades off the dome to the sides away from who is hiding underneath.
    These would be resupplied at terminals for nanites
    This would absorb an amount of damage or last for a limited amount of time (possibly both?)
    Cert tree would increase the time or damage absorption
    Cert tree would increase the carry amount to 1/2

    Something like this:
    • Up x 1
  3. Demigan

    I think that if you can't use it during flight it defeats it's purpose. I've rarely ever used a jetpack to escape, which is the only reason I might not be able to wait for jetpack fuel to recharge by itself. And an LA is build to reach places, there's actually no place that you can't reach with an LA if you set your mind to it. So helping this along by allowing a recharge in the middle of the air would be great.

    I have had a similar idea in the past and would like to add this: Allow players to place these Booster Chargers on the ground. They can be detonated only with force, so you would need to fire at them. They would deal light damage against vehicles and between 30 to 40% against infantry with a large inner-blast AOE. I had those percentages based on the idea that you could carry a maximum of 2 Booster Chargers, but they recharged over time when your jetpack fuel was full. That way you could easily lay traps for people without being able to OHK them.

    While a good idea in itself I think idea's like this are too specific. They work against one class and only if that class uses an EMP on you, and then only protects your jumpjet fuel but not your shielding? At best you are on the ground, at worst you are in the air and have enough fuel to land. But other than that you are still highly vulnerable and will probably die anyway.

    I always had the idea that shields like that would be best suited for the engineer. Lately I've shifted this to the Medic, who has less gadgets available and could use some more combat-oriented boosts that both help him while healing/reviving and can help himself/his teammates during a fight.
    Although I would have no problem with all classes getting utility options to place shield generators to protect in one direction. As long as the generator lives it recharges the shield, so you need to destroy that. The shield is 2-way, so you can't shoot through it fro many direction but anyone, friend or foe, can walk through them (to prevent griefing or people using mass shields to keep players out). These shields could be a mixed blessing, both helping determine the combat distance but also providing cover for anyone, even if it's an enemy.
    • Up x 1
  4. Moz

    How about some sort of device that allows you to res other LA's? Something like a med kit injector.

    I think the main reason for the lack of LA use within a serious squad is the lack of ability for them to get a res by medics (being high up or in awkward to reach places). This means they are instantly less viable than other classes.

    With this in mind maybe adding a tool that can be used to res other LAs only might give them some more viability?

    Maybe a 3 level cert, something like:

    1 - 200 certs - Return a friendly LA to life with 50% HP. Can carry one charge.
    2 - 500 certs - Return a friendly LA to life with 70% HP. Can carry two charges.
    3 - 1000 certs - Return a friendly LA to life with 100% HP. Can carry three charges.
  5. AngusPrime

    Light Assault could use some form of bombardment tool, seeing as how Heavies tool is Rocket Launchers for anti vehicle, I'd love to see LA's carrying utility Nade Launchers used for ranged support or minor harassment
    • Up x 1
  6. SupaFlea

    LA has always lacked squad usefulness, any proper tactical and organized outfit 9/10 will allow 1 LA and would much rather take a 2nd Infil or any other class because HA does our killing better, has longer life span and more versatile AV. Infil provides term hacking, pest control, sensor darts and claymores for defence.

    LA provide a carbine, a means to separate from the squad and not get revived and 2 bricks of C4.

    We need a tool that is useful both solo and grouped, I've always been partial to something slightly defence, EMPFlash mine, take down shields and blind/reverse aiming and movement keys. Something other than simply sitting higher on terminal than a standard soldier can get to.

    The idea from the OP are actually 1 of the better ones I've seen I will say.
    • Up x 2
  7. OldMaster80

    Personally I feel giving LA a tool makes sense as much as giving Infiltrators a rocket launcher.

    Light Assaults need to have their assault role and their mobility emphasized, not a ******* new tool of some kind. That's the reason why this class is not helpful in squads. Mobility requires to stay away from the non-flying classes, and at the same time firepower is not the same as HA or medics.

    • They could use additional ranks of Adrenaline Pumps boosting not only movement speed but also reload time and weapon switching.
    • Accuracy penalty while jetpacking should be brutally reduced.
    • Flashbangs should be buffed (shorter fuse, bigger radius).
    And this should be a very good first step.
    • Up x 1
  8. Demigan

    'tool' can very well improve their assault capabilities.

    Think of a tool that stabilizes their aim while walking/jumping/jumpjetting or even allowing LA's to be the only class that can fire while sprinting. It would help them become the fast assault unit people think and want it to be.
    Think of tools that disrupt hostile radar so LA can attack monitored area's or give players the slip after being spotted.
    Think of less-than-lethal mines like flashmines.
    Think of HUD enhancements that allow them to see wire-frames on people they spot, or equip HS/NV goggles without the need to go ADS and lose speed etc.
    All of these make the LA more useful in squads, some by being better than the HA at killing in certain scenario's and some by allowing him to bring things to the table other classes can't.
    • Up x 1
  9. Iridar51

    I'll go off on a tangent and a bit off topic here.

    As an example of a good update: there was a fairly big patch in League of Legends recently. Among other things, there were changes to the champion named Quinn.

    I won't go in deep details, because League is very different to PS2. But the essence is this: Quinn was originally meant by developers as marskman, a champion that focuses on killing enemies from range with sustained damage. Basically a glass cannon.

    However, Quinn lacked consistent damage and performed poorly in that role (link to pre-patch video). Instead, she had a lot of mobility and burst damage, so she was instead better played as an assassin. A swift and lethal killer, that calculates the precise time to strike the enemy where he's most vulnerable.

    She wasn't too great in that role, but still better than marksman.

    So what the developers did? They changed her kit so she can better perform her most popular role: the gave her tools to be a better assassin.

    Current Quinn's abilities are:
    • Passive: find weakness. Periodically, nearby enemies become marked and one attack against them will deal bonus damage. Quinn will have bonus movement and attack speed for a few seconds after striking a marked enemy.
    • Blinding assault: a skillshot that limits enemy's vision and applies the mark to him.
    • Reveal enemies: a scouting ability that reveals the map in a fairly large radius around Quinn. This will help her pursue the fleeing / hiding prey, or to check if an all-in attack would be safe, or there are enemies waiting nearby.
    • Jump: Quinn jumps at the enemy, slowing him and applying the mark, and then jumps back quickly to her maximum attack range.
    • Unity: Quinn summons her pet hawk Valor to carry Quinn around the battlefield at massively increased speed, but attacking or being attacked will break this ability.
    So Quinn has several abilities to combo to apply several marksto one enemy in quick succession (burst damage), a soft disable ability (limit vision) to prevent the enemy from retaliating while he's being killed, a scouting ability to assess the situation, a dash+snare ability to get out of a sticky situation, and a speed ability to quickly get around the battlefield.

    Basically that's everything an assassin / skirmisher needs for success.

    What of that can be applied to LA:
    • I feel we're already doing good in firepower department. Maybe our weapons lack a ranged punch, but we got enough burst damage to be effective.
    • Soft disable: we already have Smoke and Flash grenade, but they both suck and are unreliable. With some buffs they could be useful.
    • Scouting: that's an area where we are severely lacking. Not knowing what we are getting into is a big problem for Light Assaults. What's around the corner? Five heavies staring at the doorway? You will not know until it's too late.
      • That's where the idea of heat vision goggles tool comes in. The ability allows to see enemies through walls, but has long recharge, short duration, leaves the LA vulnerable while he's using the goggles (can't shoot, can't sprint), and has a short range where it sees through walls. Could also emit sound effects upon use.
    • Escape: another lacking area. It would be great to be able to press F and have a short burst of Icarus at the cost of large amount of fuel or on separate cooldown.
    • Mobility: we already have that.
    • Up x 1
  10. Demigan

    I like the heat vision goggles. They don't even need a long cooldown I think, just a short duration and short range similar to the jetpacks itself which also has a short duration and range, but relatively fast regeneration period.
    I also think that the LA could function more as a hunter type and spotter. The Infiltrator is a spotter I know, but there's no reason it should be exclusive to the infiltrator especially because the LA often gets in a position to spot enemies. Enhancements such as any enemy he spots gets a wire-frame around him that's visible through objects to both the LA and any nearby friends (say any player within 50m range is able to see a wireframe of an enemy the LA spotted). That way the LA has a powerful solo ability when hunting or avoiding a particular enemy, or a powerful teamplay device by spotting hostiles from a perch so their friendlies know where and when they can expect resistance during an attack.

    For Escape I would use a personal smoke generator. Burn jumpjet fuel to create a large smokescreen, anyone inside the radius of the smokescreen loses their spot. Great for escaping enemies (and forcing them to use HS/NV scopes) or storming an enemy point: You activate your ability as you storm in and all your allies are unspottable as they enter, meaning that a simultaneous run through multiple doorways will leave the enemy guessing which door they are getting attacked from.

    Accuracy and combat on the move should simply be the LA's forte. Abilities to reduce COF while moving/jumpjetting or the ability to fire while sprinting are great options.

    We have mobility, but that doesn't mean there's no other forms of mobility that can enhance the class. Such as a Charge ability for quick assaults or escapes, short-ranged (and non-squad) teleportation abilities, better traction on steep surfaces, the ability to standardly jump higher or sprint faster, the ability to do dodge-jumps or dodge-rolls, if the game-engine can handle it the ability to grab ledges to hang from or pull yourself up etc.
    • Up x 1
  11. RedArmy

    improve their assault capabilities? they are already one of the best classes there is.
    the only problem is its very high skill cap. otherwise LA is just fine the way it is
  12. Demigan

    Even if that were true, why would it mean that the LA can't be improved? I bet Engineer, medic, infiltrator and Heavy were fine the way they were, but still they got extra weapons and tools that improved the class as a whole and allowed them to fullfil more different functions and a larger palette of choice when selecting and loading out the class.
  13. Corezer

    What I would do, if you don't mind my thoughts:

    Firepower I agree, although a big difference between Quinn and LA is that Quinn can lather, rinse, and repeat as many times as needed in a game, just gotta wait on cooldowns. With LA most vehicles and max units are gonna need both bricks so it's really a one time deal before you go back to spawn whether it's by redeploy or death. I'm not sure what to do about that, I know unlimited C4 isn't a good answer...

    Soft disable. I'm thinking my Nanite-Smoke™ and if they put flash on a 2 second fuse (after impact) and gave it a property to mark targets much like that radioactive dust from Evolve, rendering up to 25m away to allies and allowing them to be seen through walls for a second or two (or even just a marker like what nightstalkers have in destiny, or even just a HUD marker like tac mask pro in black ops, just some indication of the number and location of enemies in a room) This provides scouting for enemy positions in advance but flash requires a more precise hit to disable and doesn't last as long, so you trade a little from one hand to pick something up with the other. Put both of those grenades in our tool slot and come up with actual grenades for that slot lol. special grenades thrown with the F button.

    Escape is something I would see buffed through movement. because I do not agree that it is enough. Our jetpacks give us pathing options, but do little to get us around faster (i.e. actually make us mobile) What I propose.
  14. SupaFlea

    you must have the same opinion on a class that's meant for "infiltration being solely used for stealth assassination and burst alpha ddmg?.

    you need to stop thinking killing and survivability and start thinking versatility. If the other classes get what they want and take C4 away from LA. what is LA's purpose or use? to roof camp and stay out of combat because like you said our jetpacks are our main reason for being and being able to separate from a squad where we cant get revived since our jetpacks have no squad benefit.

    Why does a Medic need an assault rifle, his main job is supposed to be healing, it makes more sense for Light Assault to have the AR and the medic to have the carbines since combat should be a Medics 2nd thing.

    The main thing LA's need is usefulness, we don't need more ways to survive, as LA we are already aware we are more squishy than LA and the risk of being out of reach from any kind of revive mainly because if your out of reach of a revive or heal your kill farming which usually means your not wanting to be useful to a squad in the first place
  15. Dahwhatsdat???

    Honestly, I like the idea of deployable shields and agree with it wholeheartedly. Rooftops, as they are now, are deathtraps for LA's with every two bit lolpodder, HE tanker and l33t skillz OHK sniper with at least the faintest hint of protozoan intelligence looking to the nearest elevated surface for easy farming. Deybreakgames itself hasn't helped the situation in the slightest as virtually every rooftop is horridly exposed to fire and offers little in the way of cover from these threats. And the ones that aren't completely open to counter fire are easily accessible to other classes. I find it funny how often I find myself foot slogging just like everyone else rather then using my signature ability as an LA simply because I know that more often than not it will simply get me killed.

    Likewise the "assault" portion of our class is an equally laughable concept. There are very few directions we can genuinely "assault" an occupied building from that aren't either closed off to prevent HE farming (looking at you cap point rooms) or are heavily guarded. Hell some are even shielded to prevent access, such as with the roof access of amp stations.

    At this rate, the biggest buff LA's could get from the developers is a change in terrain/base layout that would make the game a little more friendly to them. But since that isn't happening they might as well just cook up an easy tool to give us the advantage where we SHOULD have it.

    Or, if that doesn't do it for you picky types, how about this. Say, for instance, the school of thought that the LA is the HA's "little brother" is correct. Shouldn't we have a tool that allows us to "assault" fortified positions better? Perhaps by giving us a launcher type weapon that shorts out shields (and maybe over shields? >:3) within a small area of effect but only does a little bit of damage. Giving us the ability to "soften up" a position from an unexpected angle would vastly expand the horizons for LA.

    P.S. Give us battle/scout rifles to plink with, unnerf jump jets for they are sluggish and are impossible to both use and still be able to (for anything other then shotguns at any rate) shoot effectively, proponents of other classes please stop stealing ideas for an LA tool, C4 is fine tankers you however aren't, and yes I am VERY salty on so many levels
  16. Joe_da_cro

    i like the ideas people are coming up with in these threads. though i think for pure awesomeness the LA tool should be being able to use two type of jet pack abilities.

    have the f key toggle between the jetpacks and awayyyy we go :D

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