I HAVE IT! I have found our TOOL!!!!!

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by McMan, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. Armcross

    You mean you want to replace C4 or drugs in that slot with other device? Not very compelling.
  2. Corezer

    What are you talking about? nobody mentioned removing c4...
  3. Armcross

    I didn't say that either. What I meant is why even considering other thing than c4. C4 is real fit with jetpack.
  4. Iridar51

    С4 is a utility slot, we're talking about a tool here.
  5. Corezer

    What I mentioned (buffing regeneration kits to provide a movement speed buff) would be more so that other classes can get speed buffs without needing LA, much like medkits let you get healing without needing a medic.
  6. Armcross

    Ok, sounds good
  7. Azawarau

    I think MAX suits are getting hit hard enough

    Anti tank mines

    The Archer

    No more half price

    The Archer....
    • Up x 1
  8. Cyndico

    I actually really like the idea of disruption actually. It's something not really employed by any other class yet (excluding turret hacking by infiltrator), and would definitely add to squad play much, much more. The stim thing is kind of neat, but it seems a little obsolete. Buffing movement speed isn't really anything special, since anyone can run Adrenaline Pump (is that what it's called?) if they'd like. Plus you'd have to determine how to even implement that, i.e. through a static time amount of increased speed, or if it is completely based on zone like the medics regen field. Either way, the amount of team "help" it gives is pretty much zero. It really doesn't give much of a boost in any situation, unless you're running away from something.

    I'm game for disruption though. +1
  9. Imp C Bravo

    It's fallacious to say that the LA already has a tool. It doesn't. This is an empirically verifiable fact.

    One could argue the LA doesn't NEED a tool because they have the best special ability. But that is a whole other argument.

    On topic -- MAX thing is unneeded. LA already has tools to deal with MAXs. Arguably the best one at that.
    Losing ADS is also unacceptable. ADS is a core concept in FPSs nowadays.

    What does the LA NOT do well? Make a tool that helps it do THAT well. (I actually can't think of anything the LA can't do well -- so someone will have to enlighten me.)

    OR

    What does it already do well? Make it do THAT better!

    Like a deployable jump pad or a tool to rewire your Jetpack to change between Regular, Drifter, and Icarus modes.
    • Up x 1
  10. Iridar51

    Anti air, long range combat, combat on flat surfaces, slow jump jets prohibit escape a lot of the time, team support...
  11. Imp C Bravo

    In order --

    LA is not designed for AA. Only MAX and HA are.

    Combat on flat surfaces -- theoretically the jump jets are designed to position the LA in unique places to create cover where there was none before. That is really LAs only weakness as far as personal risk goes. One could argue not to make it so that LAs are effective anywhere in the game -- however, one could also argue that LAs should be able to function in ANY environment as they are the flanking class. One could give them an X second deployable emergency shield bubble -- but that is more Medic/Engi areas. Also -- point of note: they have tools for this (variety of grenades.)

    Slow jump jets -- The icarus jump jets are quite good for getting out of a fire line fast -- unfortunately they don't take you anywhere so you come down just as vulnerable as before. Your idea of having jump jets being modular would allow them to be used for this role.

    Team support -- a tool to impart some mobility (the LA trait) to their team would be good.

    Considering the above, I would say a deployable jump pad would be workable. It will give LAs a boost to get into places faster as well as the momentum to manipulate their JJs more. It could be used by teammates. It could be used as an escape catapult if the LA is stuck behind even the most minimal of cover. It would be less effective inside small rooms where LAs are not supposed to dominate. It would also require tactical thinking as while LAs can control their flight -- their team can't -- so LAs would need to be aware of how far and how high the jumppad takes people. That covers 2.5 (Team support, Jump Jet speed, and to a small extent combat on flat surfaces) of the above you listed while still requiring tactical thinking and still being best taken advantage of by LAs.

    I assume that MAXs wouldn't be able to use said Jumppad OR they would get much less distance/height/speed.

    What flaws can you find with that suggestion.
    • Up x 2
  12. Iridar51

    I guess you could make an argument that a smoke grenade might allow to close the distance even on a flat surface. As I remember from Call of Duty 2 single player campaign, that's what infantry used smoke grenades for. Was quite effective.

    I'm afraid the deployable jump pad would have to be personal for LA. Otherwise it's highly liable to griefing, both intentional and non intentional. Like placing a jump pad right after a doorway, and you unwillingly fly away.

    And there's also the problem of using the jump pad by non-LAs, allowing them to get into unreachable places, devaluting LA himself. Jump pad in this case is just a nice tool for self-incertion into the fight.

    I'm not sure it's possible to make them personal, though. Maybe it can be just a limited use consumable tool, sort of like energy canister. You use it and and quickly propel forward + upwards like if you used a jump pad. That should be possible. It's not like you need a jump pad to be usable more than once if it's personal :)
  13. Imp C Bravo

    In that case -- a significant larger area of effect would allow them to be used outside without changing how they work inside maybe?

    I wouldn't think you could make jump pads personal. However, I would say make them short. 45 degree angle jump. Maybe 20 meters high -- 20 meters forward. Something small. It's the inertia and speed that Light assaults can use -- and other classes can only use minimally to make a hop over a short wall or over some outdoor stairs that are being camped. It would of course have a short shelf life -- 10 - x seconds before despawn. Not refillable by ammo packs. Can't be used to grief players in that respect and only for the smallest of terrain leaps. Whereas the LA itself could use it for much larger movements.
    • Up x 3
  14. Iridar51

    I think it would be more important for smoke grenades to prevent spotting. This should be possible to implement via the same means as infiltrators become de-spotted when cloaked.
    • Up x 1
  15. Imp C Bravo

    Oo. I like that!
    • Up x 1
  16. Demigan

    I think that a better solution than a deployable would be to build it into the suit. And rather than directly disrupting infiltrator scans I would let it create false signatures on the radar. The amount of certs you put into it regulates the amount of false signatures. So at level one it would create only 2 or 3 false signatures, at max level around 6 to 8. This way players need to seek out which signature is the real one, and as LA you could even simulate an incomming Zerg attack if you have some friends with you, while the real attack is somewhere else.
    --> this also means it can be used when there's no infiltrators about, or when you simply get spotted. You can confuse your enemies about your actual whereabouts. This means players will actually use it rather than have it as a potential "I might need it" tool.

    The LA is a mobility class, but the deployable isn't mobile. I think that any deployable for the LA is completely opposite of the function of the LA. If the LA brings anyone a speedboost it should be centered on the LA itself and maybe burn jumpjet fuel or something while active.
    That aside I think the LA needs to focus more on it's disruptive abilities. He overlaps a lot with the Infiltrator, but the LA is far better designed to strike in area's you aren't supposed to get, assaulting from positions and directions that other classes can barely even reach in any combat scenario, or using flash/smoke grenades to sow confusion and create cover for himself/his friendlies to attack/escape.

    Speed is a dangerous thing in PS2 due to the latency system and client-based damage. It's why I never really created idea's for it. If possible in the game mechanics without problems I like it, otherwise we should spent more time with other idea's instead.
    How about instead of speed increase, reduce the maximum COF during jumping/jetting, walking and ADS walking? That way players will be able to move more during a fight when an LA activates this ability/places this deployable. This could work semi-well as a deployable in defense situations or when you have time to place one before a breach situation.
    You could even introduce the ability to shoot while sprinting to LA's (and people using regen kits get it too for a short time), but with a relatively large COF. That way LA's can actually be the fastest moving entities while firing, perfect for breaching places when standing still is a death sentence. The lower accuracy is a clear and strong drawback.

    Could be nice... Especially the 'In all states' part.

    I really like this one. It prevents the forced and high-maintenance teamwork required to get people nearby equip their NV scopes and also means that an LA does not have to slow himself down with ADS to see and hit enemies (provided they are in the smoke bubble).
    And ofcourse the additional advantage of smoke grenades over underbarrel is more than welcome.

    And explode-on-contact please.
    • Up x 1
  17. Moz

    I always thought the "tool" for the light assault was being able to get to places other classes cant!?
  18. Demigan

    And the tool of the Medic is to have an AOE heal, no need for a heal/revive tool!
    And the tool of the Heavy is it's shield, no need for a rocket/missile launcher!
    And the tool for the infiltrator is stealth, no need for recon darts/motion sensor!
    And the tool for the Engineer is the ammo package, no need for the repair tool!

    Edit:
    Oh and no need for the engineer to carry turrets either!
    No need for the infiltrator to hack either!

    Can you really say that these classes haven't become better because of these additions? Can you really say these classes have stepped outside of their role or got too good because of these additions? Why would the LA, who is the least used in any teamwork assault and is in almost every scenario eclipsed by other classes not need more tools to make him more effective?
    It would mean the LA could do more than perch up high and shoot, or drop C4 on tanks. He would become useful alongside assaults on points, get unique capabilities for more variation in the game when attacking or defending, open up ways to scout, travel or avoid things for both himself and his teammates!
    • Up x 1
  19. Moz


    The classes skills go hand in hand as you point out above.

    What your saying is like me saying:

    And the light assault has a jump pack, no need for him to get to awkward places.

    The class tools allow for the use of ability..... The LA's charm is this is the other way round.... You use you ability to give access to your tool. Your tool being the ability to open up new fire angles other cant.

    If you ask me that is more powerful than a repair tool for example.

    All that said.... I do agree that the LA isn't utilized enough in your average squad.
  20. Demigan

    I don't see how this is a reason for the LA not to get extra tools at his disposal?



    The Jetpack alone is better than, say, AOE heal or an ammo pack. But it's a far cry from having an AOE heal+heal/revive device. Or ammo+turrets+repair tool. Or shield+rocketlauncher. Because the thing is, while being able to get at new fire angles is powerful, all classes can utilize flanking attacks to their advantage, and being high up or at an angle other classes can't get to isn't too big an advantage if you use the other classes with similar insight in combat flow and where you need to be for that surprise attack.

    Jetpacks are good, but there is absolutely no reason why other tools could help the LA. These could synergise with Jetpacks, or they could be capable in completely separate area's. Such as indoor combat or something similar.
    • Up x 2

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