I hate cloaked Flashes, and getting run down, etc.

My absolute least favorite thing in this game is how easy it is to get run down by vehicles, and I am most annoyed by the Flashes and cloaked Flashes. It's annoying and feels like a ******** tactic, which doesn't seem like it should work, but it does.

* An ATV like a Flash would never be as durable as they are in the game. Even a near miss from explosive cannon (from MBTs) doesn't seem able to stop a Flash. In real life, someone on an ATV trying to charge even one enemy soldier with an automatic rifle would get shot down very quickly. I wish ATVs and other non-tanks were more vulnerable.
* It's very difficult to avoid getting run down in this game - much more difficult that it seems like it would be in real life. Not only are vehicles in the game able to drive almost everywhere without problems, but a person on foot could jump to one side more effectively than it is in the game. Even when I see a vehicle coming from a ways off, if he's aiming for me, I almost always get run down and killed no matter what I do. This seems very unrealistic, wrong and annoying. I think it should be much easier to dodge incoming vehicles.
* If an ATV ran into someone (especially someone in heavy armor and weapons) I don;t think it would just be a win for the ATV. It's highly annoying how the ATVs can drive through just about any terrain and through people without concern. I think ATV's should be at great risk of damage, tumbling, losing control and/or launching riders when running into anything.
* All vehicles seem to be pretty immune to all but the most severe terrain - why have all that lovely terrain detail and then have it have so little effect on movement? Real wheeled vehicles are hugely affected by off-road terrain, even flat open ground, compared to road speed. I wish wheeled vehicles were not so amazingly capable off-road, and that flying through the air was much more dangerous for them.
* In real life, I can hear off-road vehicles about a mile away, and if one is anywhere near me, I am very aware of where it is. In this game, it's very difficult to tell when there is a vehicle nearby until it is too late to get out of the way. I'd like to be able to turn up vehicle volume and get a directional warning of nearby vehicles (and footsteps, but especially vehicles).

I am saying this largely to vent my great aggravation from all the times these things happen. I realize that the idea seems to be "oh isn't this cool and fun" and trying to make these things viable. I'm just voicing my perspective that I don't personally find it cool or fun. I think it would be cool and fun if ATV's were very vulnerable to getting damaged, if Harassers and Sunderers were also more prone to destruction by weapons such as tank cannon and other anti-vehicle weapons, if wheeled vehicles had a harder time doing amazing acrobatic stunts and going full-speed everywhere, and above all, if it were far more easy to not get run down when on foot.

My FMTV was capable of quicker speeds than the Sunderer and both vehicles would be about the same size. I think the realism that terrain has on vehicles in PS2 is.. good enough. Its not perfect, but its close enough that if I go up a hill, the vehicle slows down about how much I'd expect it to.

Tanks are the same way. I've seen an Abrams keep up with my Lancer doing 50mph. My Lancer was on open flat road, the tank was running parallel to the road but offroad in some pretty rough stuff.

i think making vehicles (and infiltrators) so invisible that they don't even cast shadows - what reality is that from - is ridiculous.

IRL Quaddrivers and IG Flashdrivers die exactly the same when they charge an enemy with an assault rifle.
the IRL enemy is just more likely to not be bad and totally ignore the flash until he's dead

a "flash is op thread"

now I've seen everything

Due to how it's completely invisible beyond a short distance (stops rendering entirely), it can move from beyond render distance, run over a whole line of otherwise well positioned people while still cloaked, and vanish beyond render distance again all about 10 seconds. When things are busy, you can't hear it coming. Even if you did hear it coming, it moves so fast you won't have time to react to it.

And that's not even considering the fact that it can have a weapon.

Yeah, it's not balanced. Makes a mighty fine trolling machine though, as we're seeing more and more, because... the Internet...

To balance it, I offer the following suggestions:

• Reduce the speed while cloaked by 50%.
• Reduce the amount of time it can spend cloaked to 15 seconds.
• Allow lock on rocket launchers to lock even while it is cloaked, to increase the risk vs. reward of using it.
• Add a 10 second cool down before the cloak can be enabled after decloaking.
• Put a 5 second delay on the use of the weapon after decloaking.
• Remove the road kill for MAX units, by applying no damage to the MAX and 50% damage to the Flash. An Engineer turret will stop a Harasser dead in its tracks, and a Flash costs much less than a MAX so...
• Remove 100% road kill damage to infantry while the Flash is cloaked.
• Make sure that it's actually visible on all graphical settings.

This is where I stopped reading.

This is a game.

The Flash is fine.

@ Taemien Thanks for the reality check! I just mean wheeled vehicles do go faster on roads, and can't pass some terrain easily or at all. Tracked vehicles are less affected by road vs off-road as you report (and can cross a much wider range of terrain IRL).

@ Prudentia My in-game experience trying to shoot at Flashes with an LMG even when I see them coming, is that I get a few hits in that do nothing and then I get run down and killed without even slowing down the Flash, at least 80% of the time. I hardly ever am able to kill a Flash that is coming to ram me.

@ Dieter Perras Hehe. But I am not saying Flash is OP. I am saying I find it highly annoying and undermining of my fun and immersion in the game. Flash ramming people and surviving full auto bullets and even tank fire, not to mention having cloaking devices and mounted weapons, is annoying, counter-intuitive and unbelievable. It sabotages my enjoyment of playing a game of having a powerful gun or a tank, to be embarrassed by a smartypants cloaked ATV that in the game is hard to notice, hard to hit, hard to kill, and can mow people down and do acrobatics without even slowing down and cloak... and I would find it far more appropriate if riding an ATV into combat was extremely dangerous, not likely to be effective at all, and certainly was easily swat-able by machineguns and tank fire, and that noticing and avoiding getting run down by them and other vehicles was far easier.

Oh, and another thing that's silly and contributes to this: These vehicles can all go full speed straight into a solid obstacle and they just stop with no effects - no damage or disruption or flying passengers or anything, unless they actually flip upside down, which they don't do unless they mess up completely.

Having used a wraith flash myself and fought against many I really don't think they're op as the only players I see getting hugely impressive kill streaks with them are high level players that can usually get the same results with many other things in the game.

When you're driving a wraith flash even one guy spots you and he can kill you very quickly. Hell I've had it where I raced through a whole hoard of infantry and missed every one of them by inches.

Look I get that getting killed by something invisible isn't fun but gutting the thing isn't the answer.

^^ No to all that

The only thing I would say is add some kind of collision penalty to hitting an enemy. So if you run into a troop your speed will be dropped by say 40%. That way you could still get roadkills but you couldn't ride through a crowd of 10 people with no effect on your speed. Still, I think this is a non-issue - it happens very rarely and is easy to deal with.

As someone who has tried this tactic before I can tell you that yes you can get a few cheesy kills on unsuspecting troops but they will soon get wise and be on the lookout for you. They will then listen out for you and spray you with their LMGs when you come in again. If your cloak runs out you are dead as you are very vulnerable on the Flash. If you hit a turret you will stop dead and then enemies will destroy you. The bar mounted weapons are very inaccurate whilst moving meaning to engage you really have to stop and aim and that will get you destroyed in no time.

If you see a Wraith Flash buzzing around, go to your Sundy and equip your Engineer. Put down a few tank mines and that Flash will be dust in no time.

So... We make them worthless to solve a non existent problem?

most vulnerable vehicle in the game, with broken cloak and broken vehicle ejection...
well, i tried to roadkill about 10 players.. succeed at 5 (2 was teammates).. and i died a lot

Have you even played wraith flash? It's not that easy. You can die from every thing. The only thing you have going for you is speed and maneuverability which the latter is not that good. Without the cloak a flash is a sitting duck. There are so many counters to a flash it's not really feasible to change the current cloak mechanic. Else take it out of the game.

Flash nerf thread? Really?

aim for the driver not the flash?
i can bolt the driver of a cloaked flash with a slugshotgun, if you can't kill him with an LMG...
hell i knifed a flashdriver once by jumping over it while he was charging at me...

No. Your suggestions would **** over Flashes even for transport. The cloak isn't long enough to go from render distance, and that beyond a few meters they stop rendering is a lie, at least with my settings. I do have lots of problem running over people because the weird hit-detection and terrain; if the terrain is not flat, I can't roadkill people. Also, the sound is extremely loud right now, if you can't hear it you've got a problem.

Also, a Flash is really weak. Any rocket(even HE) will kill them in one shot, and Flashes don't move fast enough for close range(aka the only range for their weapons). Then, I have been killed too many times by people who just shoot me, even when I'm going to roadkill them while cloaked. If you want to counter us, just use HA or place AV mines, it's really easy to kill us.

Trust me, running people over isn't as easy as it sounds. In addition to combating the flash's stlll godawful handling, you have to run over the air pocket in front of the guy, and not the guy himself. How far in front? Who knows. It all depends on his ping.

You raise several problems in this post. I get the idea that you never really piloted a flash, so here is the state of the flash, point by point.
*The flash is incredibly easy to destroy. Nearly any explosive will destroy it instantly, and if not, damage the driver by incredible amounts. A mistake is to shoot the flash with small arms fire. Always aim for the driver. The driver is still dead as quickly as normal, and you automatically get more head shots, as you are forced to aim a bit higher. If you know one is coming, or one just missed you, it is incredibly easy to shoot them down. Nearly all cloaked flashes I encounter die while I live.

*Running someone over is difficult. Unlike shooting, this is dependent on the screen of the guy being run over. With the latency accounted for, this means that running over on the drivers screen does nothing. You only get a kill if the infantry gets run over on his screen. This means that you have to predict the latency, your lag and his lag, count all that time up (guess between 0,5 and 1 second, it is often viable) and then run him over at that spot. That doesn't work if he changes direction or loses speed because he spotted you. Another great thing against being run over is jumping. Jumping seems to prevent or severely reduce the damage, rarely killing people.

*The ATV is sometimes difficult to control. It is difficult to predict at which small incline you will suddenly come into a spin. It happens from time to time, but enough to severely cripple manoeuvres. Hitting people is nearly the only thing that doesn't make you lose control from time to time, unless you count the trying to hit people and going over that big incline, losing control. With a flash you also need to have an exit strategy, or you are in a position where you can't get enough speed to escape even the most blind newby in the game. You get too easily stuck on rocks or against walls.

*The terrain itself maybe should change speeds, but it is highly unlikely that these vehicles in the game aren't build for offroad stuff. Besides that, especially flashes have been buffed to flip less, as the flipped randomly way too often.

*Flashes rarely surprise me. I just developed that nice Pavlov reaction to stealth signatures, which my eye now picks up quickly, even from distances. These things have a quite big visibility when moving at distance, and the only thing that makes it hard is that the flash is farther away, and thus smaller.

All in all, the flash is a difficult vehicle to drive. You are often spotted, sometimes at much greater distances than you expect, and nearly everything except small arms kills you instantly. Small arms is incredibly dangerous at close to medium ranges, or when the enemy is hunting you. Even when stealthed.

This destroys the flash. Besides the fact that they went to great lengths and made the stealth nearly the same on all graphic settings, which was a nerf for the stealth for higher settings, there is a great many things wrong. 10 second cool-downs between stealthing? 5 second delay between de-cloaking? Lock on launchers locking on even when it is cloaked? All the idea's would completely destroy the stealth combat flash. It would be completely useless, except as transport.

I would agree to a more expensive flash, to show that the utility is increased with a tremendous amount. 75 to a utter maximum of 150 nanites, but preferably the 75 one. The cloaked flash gives one of the few hit and run tactics in this whole game, and should not be nerfed for that. It is the weakest vehicle in the game you know.

Some overrun damage applied to Flashes and Harassers will be nice.
Not much but still.
Specially MAX vs Flash is rather flashy considering cost and armor protection.

Some situations like this are where the flash can really do damage and it does seem cheap. It is cheesy and the one change I would like to see to a flash is collisions with infantry and maxes to slow it down and or flicker its cloak. Right now you can run over infantry and kill tanks pretty effectively.