I got shot out of the air with a bulldog lib that was chasing me.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Hoki, May 16, 2014.

  1. Gleerok

    ESFs need a speed boost, at least +30 default (no air frame) to all of them.
  2. JackD

    OP is just not a good pilot. Dont see why this would be a reason for balance changes
  3. IamnotAmazing

    it's funny
    cause you're either
    a( lying
    b( he was hacking

    I have a feeling it was a
    • Up x 4
  4. NaySayer

    If this incident was legitimate, a fully certed high speed lib should not even come close to the speed of a stock esf. It's a big bomber, how does this make sense? This game makes no sense anymore.
  5. lothbrook

    If you don't have AB pods and aren't using racer, a racer 3 lib with afterburners will easily keep pace with a mossie, scythes and reavers will be caught as they're at about a 30 KPH speed disadvantage. All thats needed for this scenario to work is for the lib pilot to be accurate enough with the TB to keep the mossies health down and if he does get close enough bell up a bit.

    As i posted earlier a racer 3 lib at about a 15 degree tilt will do 255, in a dive (like at flight ceiling) it can reach speeds of almost 300 without afterburners. If you're not in a racer 3 mossie, you're not the fastest thing in the sky :p.
  6. tZonkD

    Flying in a straight line a racer lib could perhaps keep up with a non racer esf. However the lib is far slower to change direction than any esf configuration. And if you're flying in a straight line with a tail, relative speeds & tail guns are the least of your problems anyhow :p

    Yes the lib tail gun can aim to much forwards and perhaps the relative lib<->esf top speeds could be a tad more defined. However a good ESF pilot will fly circles around just abt any liberator crew and most experienced pilots know this. So yeh i too say BS or hakks" to this. Also chased for 2 effin minutes?! that enough time to cross the whole continent in a ESF :p

    Next time turn and fight. You may well still end up and a burning wreck, but at least you may learn something abt fighting from it. If you just run away.. well you may get better at running away i guess ;)
    • Up x 2
  7. IamnotAmazing

    yes but you're not going to hit something flying on front of you with a tailgun

    also it's freaking stupid a lib can keep up with an esf
  8. Simferion

    Fix'd for you.
  9. lothbrook

    You just have to nose up slightly, like 15 degrees and the tail gun can shoot straight forward, so getting in range and nosing up is all thats required. Its even easier if the ESF flies lower than you, which is very common. I don't see why people think this is so crazy, i chase down ESFs all the time in a race lib now, mossies are definitely the hardest since they're baseline speed is almost as fast as mine. The only part thats crazy is getting chased for 2 minutes and not just heading straight to the WG.
  10. zaspacer

    You are forgetting that a running away ESF cannot fly in a pure straight line or they will be gunned out of the sky by the Lib/ESF chasing them.

    In order for an ESF to outrun their pursuer (another ESF or a Lib), they must be significantly faster. Fast enough to perform slight evasion and still outdistance their pursuer. Only being slightly faster means that they will only pull away slowly when moving in a straight line, and moving in that straight line will make them an easy target and get them killed.

    NOTE: I am a speed ESF pilot. Racer 3 and Fuel Pods almost all the time. I have Certs into all 3 ESFs, and I no longer use my fully Certed Scythe because it's TOO SLOW for what I need: I can't rely on it to escape pursuers. R3 Mosquitos has best regular speed and good Afterburner. R3 Reaver has comparable regular speed to R3 Scythe, but the R3 Reaver Afterburner speed is fantastic.

    What do you think about ESFs being able to go faster when they're flying upside down? (which they do, especially the Scythe)

    Anyone know if a Lib flies faster upside down too?

    Can't the Lib just fly either sideways or upside down as it's chasing the ESF?

    Both allow the Tail Gunner to arc his shot up in order to counteract drop. Sideways would give the Tankbuster/Bulldog a left/right coverage to fire at the ESF if it janked left right. And Upside Down using 3rd person view might give the Tail Gunner the ability to eyeball and lob shots at the ESF.

    I've read Hoki's posts many times before, and I haven't known him to make stuff up. He usually tries to be very precise in his posts.
  11. Loui5D

    Did you take into account that the lib could be running racer?
  12. IamnotAmazing

    but how is it logical a gunship should be able to chase down a fighter? The difference between the two is supposed to be maneuverability on the esf's side and firepower on the lib's side. Now it's very lopsided
  13. dstock

    Since this thread is somehow still going, after I took the time to MSPaint why it can't happen the way it was explained, ...

    Even if the Lib pilot could close to 150m, he would still be mag-dumping his TB just to get hits and keep the fighter's NAR from kicking in. For someone who claims to fly a Lib, you vastly over-estimate the accuracy of the TB. OP also states altitude of both crafts was relatively close, leaving out diving as a means of catching up.

    Seriously, did you even look at my diagram? It's closer to 30 degrees, which all but kills the Lib's forward momentum. There is no chase, no closing in on the target. And tell me, who do you chase down? People running flat out for the WG, or people floating around, dodging shots and trying to fight. There is a clear dichotomy here, one that seems lost on this thread.

    A Lib, regardless of frame, can't maneuver or accelerate like an ESF. I bet you get Daltoned a lot. Also, the answer to your question is no, because even if it did, a Lib does not respond fast enough to make it worth while, not to mention inverting your gunner's controls.

    Again, it cannot fly sideways or upside down and continuing chasing. This is false, the fastest way to fly a Lib is ~14-20 degrees nose down depending on frame, with VThrust engaged. Rolling or banking kills the top speed. Furthermore, the M-60A and M-60G have very different projectile characteristics, the -A version has a nearly flat trajectory and increased speed, meaning minimal drop out to ~300m. And for the last damn time, the Liberator gunners do not get a 3rd person camera angle, when you gun a Liberator, you are locked to your 1st-person camera.

    Seriously, has anyone complaining here ever even played in a Liberator? I'm beginning to think not, the amount of ignorance in this thread is palpable.

    We also have different opinions on the OP, I can ID flamebait when I see it. It's becoming too much to wade through the sycophants and try and explain things reasonably.

    ESF still has maneuverability, Lib still has firepower. The argument being made here doesn't even consider the facts of this sort of engagement, it's nothing short of the hear-say and torch-waving I've come to accept as normal on these forums. It doesn't matter what frame a Lib uses, they will never match the maneuverability of any fighter, regardless of that ESF's frame. Furthermore, taking Racer frame drastically reduces the moves and flight-habits available to the pilot, because he cannot rely on the massively improved V-Thrust from High-G to either hold altitude upside down, save altitude rolling, or provide the lateral movement available to a banking Liberator with High-G.

    I'd kindly ask every person in this thread to go fly a Lib in VR with both frames and recognize the differences before returning and spouting more BS. This is hands-down one of the least reasoned and productive threads I've seen in the vehicle forums lately.
    • Up x 1
  14. IamnotAmazing

    Now, I've flown with all the frames on a lib and mossie ( excluding dogfighter on the esf because it's garbage) both over several hundred hours counting my alts
    The fact that a GUNSHIP can keep up with a FIGHTER is so logic breaking, I can't imagine, just why?

    Esfs had their a2g role nerfed, because it was too good
    they then sort of let in lib into a2a ( which is freaking great and makes for fun battles)

    now we're loosing our speed advantage

    while I can still beat lib crews I"m one of few that can do it against the best, I"m starting to wonder why you'd pull an esf for anything but cheap kills with pp/banshee/airhammer and not really affecting balance
  15. PKfire

    Unless I'm mistaken, racer is the only frame that had its speed buffed. I could be wrong though, as I'm not very attentive at times.
  16. IamnotAmazing

    yes but it can now keep up with all esfs but the mosquito if not get ahead with afterburners, it hurts my mind to think about
  17. PKfire

    If it's any consolation, racer is still pretty unpopular. :oops:
  18. zaspacer

    After testing in VR...
    (NOTE: numbers are pretty good, but still rough)

    A Lib with High Speed frame and maintaining level altitude has a top speed of:
    Default: 220
    w/ Vertical Thrust: 248
    w/ Afterburner: 271
    w/ Afterburner + Vertical Thrust: 276

    Turn a Lib with High Speed frame sideways and maintaining level altitude you get:
    Default: 236
    w/ Vertical Thrust: 248
    w/ Afterburner: 296
    w/ Afterburner + Vertical Thrust: 296
    (NOTE: nose has to be pointed slightly up to maintain level altitude while sideways. The Lib can dip it's nose easily to fire the nosegun at forward targets or use the upward angle to offset the bullet drop of the nose gun. The sideways angle is much better for the belly and tail gunners than the nose dipped position for Libs to maintain top speed while rightside up. The Lib can roll onto it's back [or any number of degrees short of its back] to maxmize Afterburner Speed or non-Afterburner Speed)

    Flip a Lib with High Speed frame upside down and maintaining level altitude you get:
    Default: 250
    w/ Vertical Thrust: 248
    w/ Afterburner: 320
    w/ Afterburner + Vertical Thrust: 322
    (NOTE: nose has to be pointed severely up to maintain level altitude while upside down. This creates a problem for aiming w/ nosegun at targets that are not above, and for belly and tail guns to target forward at all. HOWEVER, this does seem like the ideal method of running away from and firing backward at targets. Flying this in 3rd person [for better down angle navigation] it looks like flying Slave 1)

    A default/stock Lib flying upside down and maintaining level altitude has a top speed of:
    Default: 205
    w/ Vertical Thrust: 218
    (NOTE: nose has to be pointed severely up to maintain level altitude while upside down. This creates a problem for aiming any of the guns forward and other details mentioned above for flying upside down)

    THAT is false. As I posted above, flying Sideways is much more effective at continuing a chase and bringing guns to bear.

    I just flew a Lib in VR, that's how I got the above numbers.

    This thread has now produced Lib speed numbers and identified currently largely unused methods as best methods of Lib rotation for some engagements. That's productive and reasoned.

    I seem to get Daltoned a lot on Amerish when it's dead and there is a good Lib crew hunting. Other than that it's just another threat, though a very high one and one I often take steps to try to identify and avoid.

    Since I am a careful pilot and run Mosquito/Reaver w/ Racer 3, Fuel Pods, Flare, and Nanintes, there are few single threats that can flat out kill me if I am undamaged, flare ready, and have AB fuel. Dalton, Vanguard, HA Dumbfire, and enemy ESFs are all in that category. AV Base Turret and Phoenix too, but those almost never happen. And I don't think I've ever been killed by C4 yet (though I have caught a LA trying a few times).

    If Dalton and Vanguard OHK on ESF were removed, I could fly a lot more aggressively in some encounters.

    In my experience the OP definitely has posted a lot of posts that are trying to lobby something. But I do feel most his actual content he references is intended to be precise and accurate. (relative to how much he can control that)
  19. jarree

    There is a reason why these kind of topics NEVER have a video capture attached to it. The story just sounds better without it. Most likely OP was doing really poor evasive manouvers, which caused a longer flight path than the lib chasing him, allowing the chasing lib to kill him.

    That's my educated guess, since I've been in the similar situation chasing an ESF and that's the only way you can keep up and kill it.
  20. Crushfield

    Bulldog and Dalton have the same projectile velocity if I'm not mistaken.

    Any time I've ever wanted to get away from a lib, I don't recall ever really having that much difficultly. Try flying more evasively?