I don't honestly feel the Mana Turret is useless.

I know my opinion isn't in the majority here, but just hear me out.

I'll say up front that I don't find it to be a critical game changer, but neither do I find it to be the worthless hump of scrap metal it's been repeatedly called here on the forums. On more than one occasion I've been able to use it to respectable effect. I've used it for a temporary fortification, as well as to help block doorways to slow the tides of the incoming enemy hordes.

Truth be told I'd sort of worry if it were to get any considerable buff. I manage with it well enough as it is, but if it were to become a more capable weapon, I think you'd find bio-labs go from bad to slash-your-own-wrists-to-stop-the-pain levels of annoyance.

I've used my turret to rake doorways and openings to lay down cover fire, make the enemy think more than an engineer might be behind a door, or to actually catch people going down a passageway. I think a lot of the complaining comes from the fact that most people will kill the engineer through that frontal gap, the shield isn't as protective as we would like it to be, and it is ineffective against vehicles(well, it does a little against ESFs, but so do all small arms).

And, I'm an idiot because all the guides I've read and listened to kept telling me I could deploy ammo packs with the turret and I always thought it meant while using the turret and pushing B. I thought I was doing something wrong. Just figured out today that before I deploy the darn thing, I can trade between ammo pack or Mana Turret with the B button. I'm either really stupid or the instuctions weren't idiot-proof enough for me to not know my own job until a month and a half later.

Maybe so many people are use to engineer turrets being a bigger threat in games like TF2, they feel the PS2 turret is inferior. It is a forum where people will state their opinion. It's just up to everyone to hold a discourse and brainstorm how to better use the tools we have.

plus it renders like a vehicle and becomes and giant shoot here sign.

Besides the occasional deployment for cover fire, this is what I use it for. If I am on Esamir or Amerish solo capping stuff it can sometimes be useful in that the enemy fires at it, and I instantly know where they are. I use the 'shoot here sign' to my advantage.

Oh, and out in the open at mid to long ranges it's more accurate at putting multiple bullets on target than any of my NC Infantry weapons.

It's a situational weapon. It is good, shock and awe, in the right situation. Can't help but feel that the people that whine a lot about the turret fit under the following categories:

1. People that are mad that PS2 is not exactly the same as PS1, except with updated graphics.
2. People that want an I win button.
3. People that do not comprehend that a support class shouldn't be as good at fighting infantry as an anti-infantry class.
4. People that do not know how to use the turret properly.
5. People that have not yet discovered you can convert the turret to an ammo pack.
6. People that need to blame their own failings on something/someone else.

Seriously, in terms of their versatility and the benefits they bring to battles, Engineers are on of the best classes (if not THE best). They don't need some insanely powerful turret to make a difference.

I want the vehicle turret. That not withstanding, the engineer turret is fine. It's a no recoil, high damage gun with a shield on it and unlimited ammo. People that are asking for more, either can't aim, or deploy it in a stupid location, like in the center of a room. Yes, people can head shot you in the turret, but lets be honest here, they can do that anywhere. Now if you want to use a turret effectivly here is what you need.

2-3 anti perosnal mines (much better then the ammo pack), put those mines in the doorways of a room you are not covering. aim at the other door, and be ready to disengage the turret if you need to. Place turret in corner facing non mined door. Your golden.

I actually use mine all of the time:

1. Hold the turret and hit "B", and it magically transforms into an ammo pack (so you can feel even better about carrying AV mines). The ammo pack lasts much longer than the default ammo pack (which I don't run anyway since I carry AT mines), and is worth the turret alone...
2. Place the turret to provide fire support (works well, but is not OP or unstoppable). It's not perfect in all situations, and it's not a killing machine. What it does for me an my squad is suppresses the enemy inf and draws fire from the rest of the squad. Do I get sniped out of my turret? Yes, but there is usually a medic around to revive me...
3. Place turret to provide additional cover for my squad.
4. Place turret as a target to draw fire. This actually works very well, especially in more open areas.

I have yet to put any Certs into my turret, and I would love AV and AA versions as well. Could it be better? Absolutely... Is it useless, absolutely not...

Anti air mana would be great IMO- not something you'd want all the time though.

If it's flak it would be hard to hit infantry with it like AA maxes. (and doing little damage)
If it's a lockon only rocket can't be used against land/infantry at all
Indoors it would be only useful as distraction/cover.

I like it, and use it all the time.

I use it mostly as a barricade for doors or crouching behind, or distraction - if I'm capping a point alone, I find that people usually presume the room is empty if they find an turret and noone behind it.

The only time I actually use the HMG on it, is when the enemy only has the opportunity to attack me from where I have it pointed. You can crank out a ton of kills in fx. biolabs in the right place with little effort

Meh, some players just don't know or appreciate the concept of suppressive fire and the use of a good position, cover, and elevation.
If they expect to rack up the kills just by placing the turret anywhere, then they are clearly misguided.

I

I use mine in methods 1, 3 and 4. Additionally I use it at a stepping ladder to get to normally inaccessible places for my class.

I just wish the engineer had more options.

What i would like if you guys don't mind is not a frigging mounted shotgun and instead an actual machine gun that can from a window give fire support to my friends barley 50 meters away that is getting pushed back by a MAX and 8 infantry men. Hitting them instead of hitting the wall and ground around them. They didn't even notice me or even thought of taking cover.I didn't even get assist. Normally a machine gun in a position like that locks down the entire area it can see. Oh and i got killed by an ESF that spotted the shield light. <.<

WTF is the idea of an CQC mounted weapon. Read that twice and realise how ridiculous it sounds. Here i stand with a mounted machine gun twice the size of the normal LMG and it can't hit anything beyond 20 meters. Unless you one shot then it's better than the sniper rifles. And it overheats faster than anything else in game. I am now completely convinced that the head scientific group making these weapons and vehicles is lead by a group of poop throwing monkeys.

I actually saw an enemy engineer killed our newbie in a skirmish with the MANA turret today.
Then I walked up and killed him, no damage taken.

Yesterday, I was raiding a base by myself (as an Engy) against a MAX, a light assault, and an Engy. Luckily the Engy dropped the turret to guard the cap point instead of pocket healing the MAX.
I sniped the light assault (the most dangerous target at range), then drew out the MAX and bombed him with a nade and mine. He went down.
And the Engy on his turret?...muwahahahaha. Seriously, I was at red HP with no grenade, and I still kill the Engy on his turret. It was simple--ran up and weather the nerf darts that is the MANA turret, jumped onto a box so I was higher than turret can turn, jumped down and knifed the guy. The problem here was that the turret did not kill me before I got behind him (as expected), despite me already being in red HP, with zero survivability upgrade. It was beyond pathetic.

The MANA turret will always be marginally useful against new players. But against more experienced players, you will NEVER beat anyone with it. Ever. Heck, I walked into one the other day right at a door, point blank range, yet it didn't kill me. I 'nade the Engy to death. Suppressive fire only works if the enemies are afraid to pop their heads out. However, MANA turret does so little damage that no one cares.

Pretty much this.

I did not realize it turned into an ammopack, +1

No.4 has been discussed to death:
Distraction/bait, ladder, ammo pack, shield, blocks door way.

Not for laying down cover fire, unless Engineer is not want to be credit to team! I wouldn't mind if accuracy is extremely laughable so long as it actually hurts enough that people would at least focus on you before your team. But no..the damage is so low, no one is going to care that you're laying down cover fire. And in a tight corridor..well, like I said--any experienced players will simply kill you if you put down a turret.

Here's another fun story--I did lay down a turret in the position to defend a generator once. 10 seconds later, a grenade flies in and exploded on it. I was hiding to the side, and all that was at the turret was an AI Mine. Needless to say, the assault blew himself up when he walked in to C4 the generator while I watched. Like I said--if I had tried to man the turret like I should, the LA (who was quite experienced with the game from the looks of it) would've killed me and destroyed the generator. But I knew better. Every Engy on this forums knew better.

I never use one. It doesn't offer enough protection. It's cone of fire is much too large and doesn't hit properly, machine gun fire should be fairly pin point in controlled bursts. The arc of fire is miniscule. Lock on missiles work on them and you will die, the turret won't but you will in one hit. Snipers and everyone else can only hit you with head shots and you will die. You're stationary, easier to flank and much easier to hit, the dip in the shield is like an automatic spotting system for head shots.

Turrets just don't threaten me and they should. The basic problem is that they should not allow headshots, the shield should cover the whole engineer and a bit to the sides for others to duck behind. A proper emplacement that must be taken out with explosives.

The only use for them is surprise and that only happens once.

a pile of scrap metal would provide more portection then the mana turret

Its pretty close to useless for anything other than a shield.

I would like if it gets some AA capability.