I Call BS on PU2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by StayFrostyGents, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. AirSuperiority

    Oh and because having the most armor, a default higher m/s without needing to deploy, 1 shot high damage round, and a shield that lasts 8 seconds, about 2/3 of the TTK of another tank should only mean lock down, which makes prowlers a "HERE I AM IM NOT MOVING" target, should be nerfed.
  2. AirSuperiority

  3. Alarox

    400m/s: worth it
    325m/s: not worth it

    I still don't see how that makes any sense. Unless you're saying you can't aim without 400m/s. In which case it is a L2P issue, not lockdown suddenly becoming worthless.
  4. Riku

    Every rant thread I open has a PSA tag.
    Perhaps they should add a [Rant] tag?

    But yeah, I sorta agree. Although the difference in heaviness between zoe nerf and lockdown nerf is quite huge. If it potentially ruins the ability for some players, a refund demand is justified.
    • Up x 1
  5. AirSuperiority

    There is none at all. The main cause of death of vanguards were strikers and them just being total noobs and going right out in to the open. We know you're OP, but you're not invincible. The NC then die in their vanguards after being hit by 1 prowler round after the locks/av turrets do all the damage and then cry about the Prowler.

    TTK for every (1/2) tank, AP of course, to kill each other is about 14s. Vanguard shield is 8s long, thats 2/3 the ttk which means the vanguard will still have about 60% health after it wins. With a gunner, that shield duration is enough to kill another MBT without taking any damage.

    Here is most NC's argument. "You're a prowler, you're suppose to stay far away, use deploy and kill stuff." Alright, that makes sense. But wait, my prowler is suppose to be used long range, yet my Vulcan is close range? (On to an imaginary yet common situation)

    Here we have a maxed ap prowler with a vulcan, vulcan being our edge over our lack of armor/deploy downside. Far away is a maxed NC vanguard with its enforcer, the vanguard's special. The vanguard and prowler shoot at each other. The prowler shoots, his gunner unable to help. The vanguard and his enforcer gunner begin landing shots on the stationary prowler. Very easy to hit. The prowler however only has 1 source of damage, the main gun, and though his DPS is increased, he misses 1 or 2 shots because the vanguard isn't immobile and can move in between his shots. His gunner, constantly pounding the prowler. Fearing death, the prowler decides to disengage, and while trying to land those 2 extra shots, the vanguard decides to pop his shield. Though his shield was unneeded as he was out DPSing a prowler at long range, he decided to use his OP ability anyway. The prowler, believing that he should have won since everyone, TR,NC,VS say the prowler is best long range, dies since because of the time it takes to get un-anchored and out of sight.

    Lesson learned. Only bad vanguard players complain about the prowler.
  6. ManMelter

    Me too, haven't used it ever since the lock on nerf. SOE needs a clear and fair policy on this - stuff that gets is stats or usability changed should automatically offer an optional refund at least in certs. Everything else is just not a fair treatment and prevents us from happily spending more SC on things.
  7. GhostAvatar

    Explain the refunds on scout radar then? No change to how it works or even its effectiveness, just a change to the slot it is utilised in.
  8. Earlino

    Well at least one guy got it so far...
  9. Liquid23

    that is a change to how it works... because it used to "work" by replaceing one of the options in a different slot and now it works by replacing completely different alternative options in a different slot
  10. Dark Pulse

    Simple: They moved it from one slot to another. It no longer exists "as it was" so even though it's 100% identical to how it worked, due to it moving to a totally different slot, the "old way" would no longer exist. It's thus technically a functionality change (because it's changing slots) and so as a result, cert refund, because it no longer exists in its old home.

    Outright removal of something like that and moving it to a new slot will almost certainly grant a cert refund for that reason.
  11. Liquid23

    I still don't get why people think a cert refund should be an option... certs in this game are closer to a currency than something like "skill points" in other game... in another game you may get an option to redistribute your skill points but that is only because you have a limited number of them which aren't enough to "buy" every option available... we don't have that here... you can earn enough certs to actually purchase every single option in the game
    • Up x 2
  12. AirSuperiority

    Read my other post and it will make sense. I am not crying over the actual lowered velocity, but the principle that they still "nerfed" the prowler ability and yet have not even discussed lowering the duration or damage absorption of the vanguard ability.

    Anyways, if you still do not agree, then it is indeed a L2P case. If you cannot beat an equally certed prowler then somethings wrong with you.
  13. FateJH

    Staying on topic, I would like to suggest that maybe the Vanguard suffers because of its mobility. Theoretically, the Vanguard's mobility should not be able to compare with a Prowler or Magrider build. The former being locked down is a different issue and is not being considered. What I mean to argue is that the Vanguard moves too slow over-all. They are incapable of quickly fleeing from damage being dealt to them. Their superior armor bonuses and the "I-win-button," as people call it, mitigate damage but they are forced to remain exposed to the said punishment longer. Their reload speed stays glacial and their main cannon itself is less useful as their aim changes while trying to pull out.

    That was a long-winded hypothesis and I apologize for it not being a concise as I wished it could have been. My suggestion would be to adjust the acceleration of the stock Vanguard or its acceleration bonus from Racer Chassis.
  14. Bvenged

    I call BS on your BS.

    It's pretty simple, but clearly a lot of people still don't understand:
    • If the core purpose or function of an ability or equipment is changed, the users will get a Certification or SC refund.
    • If the purpose or function remains the same, but the item is made more specific to its intended situational usage, or is more tailored towards their initial design, you get nothing.
    Lockdown was still perfectly viable to use for their intended purposes, in their intended situations. That hasn't changed so you get nothing. ZOE and Nanoweave actually changed in how the user would apply them. Nanoweave no longer increases your health pool, and ZOE no longer toggles activity at the users discretion.

    Purpose and function changed, you get a refund as it is no longer the same item you purchased.
    Purpose stays the same or is tightened, you get nothing because the item is still appropriate for the situations you bought it for.
  15. GhostAvatar

    It still doesn't change how it works in any way. The only thing it changes is the combinations that you can now have. Which then begs the question on why the other things that now reside in the same slot werent also refunded. Since they haven't changed functionality either, but are also affected by the ability to combine them with scout radar.
  16. Koldorn

    It is solely my humble opinion that Anchor mode is complete BS for as long as it provides such a substantial DPS disparity between the MBTs. The default 37~ish %, is enough for faction flavor. Add anchormode into the mix; it goes to near 140% over the mag. That. Is. Dumb.
  17. Alarox

    I really don't understand your point of view. You stance is that, regardless of balance, the developers should nerf/buff things on the grounds of "fairness", so if your X is buffed so should mine, if your Y is nerfed so should mine? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless you're considering them as having perfectly equivalent roles.

    That's the stance you're taking when you say "if Anchor gets nerfed so should the Vanguard shield".

    Edit: Let me know if I'm wrong, but first hear me out with what I say below.

    The only thing they have in common is that they are faction specific tank abilities. But they're not balanced around the same idea. Your argument would have merit IF the default Prowler and Vanguard were perfectly balanced relative to one another, and the only thing that could make either overpowered/underpowered is the strength of their ability. But this is not the case as anchor mode is intended to be a situational buff while the Vanguard is essentially balanced around its ability.

    So, I have to say this. If you want to make the case for the vanguard shield being overpowered and needing a nerf you can do that, but the current change to anchor mode has no bearing on the case for it.
  18. Larington

    If we're going to have cert refunds for the things mentioned here, I'd also like a refund on my Saron change, which underwent a pretty significant change in its functionality too.
  19. Dark Pulse

    Correct, but they pulled it from one slot to another. Since it is no longer buyable in the old slot, but will literally no longer exist in the old slot, meaning even if you had it you no longer will, a cert refund is pretty much mandatory so you can re-buy it if you so choose.

    It also does the devs' desired effect of there being no one clearly superior choice for that particular slot, which that one was. It's the exact same thinking that got Nanoweave changed, only obviously there was no way to "move" Nanoweave.
  20. AirSuperiority

    My stance is that the two vehicles have too much separation in their roles. The vanguard lacks the AI capability of the prowler and the prowler lacks the av capability of the vanguard. Everyone knows that a vanguard will decimate a prowler in any situation unless his shield is not present. So what I'm trying to say is that instead of nerfing the prowler ability and making the vanguard have yet another edge on the prowler, they should work on making the two abilities give each tank an equal advantage.

    If you have ever played guild wars 2, you would know that no matter what class you play, you can customize your skills to fit any role, such as dps,healing,tanking,a combo. I don't like the idea that soe tried to implement, making each tank have a single role. They should balance all of them so that the operator can spawn a tank, no matter the faction, that should fit the role they customized it to just as well as another tank customized for the same role.

    I know this has almost nothing to do with my previous post but I realized we would never agree that either tank is op or underpowered. Rather than arguing about it, in which we are both bias as we favor a certain tank over the other, I instead offered a better solution to really balance it.