How would each MBT do if it also had access to the other empires Abilities?

GUYS


Relax, this thread isn't about Which MBT is "better".

Teamkilling aircraft...... with a flying tank.

Yeah, it's not hard at all to outmaneuver a Vanguard with even a Lightning. I've gotten plenty of kills just by driving in circles around them. I'd have to say the shield is hands-down the best option out of any of them, and the only thing keeping the Vanguard from being utter rubbish. If it had a coaxial gun, like it did in the alpha, then it'd be a bit more dangerous.

This.. Vanguard is one solid tank.

With that said...

Vanguard and Prowler wouldn't gain much from magburn.. unless it turned them into temp hover tanks. But that sounds silly.

Prowler with shield and Vanguard with Lockdown would be pretty meh. The effects really strengthen the strengths of the tanks they are on. They make the tanks not terrible at anything and decent all round on each other.

Vanguard with lockdown isn't going to gain much DPS. And the velocity isn't going to be noticeable. Its already good. Prowler with shield would make it scary in CQC but that's it.

Magrider with shield would be meh. Magrider with Lockdown would be hilarious.. it'd flip over or some shtuff.

Lockdown Vanguard is going to be closer to the original Vanguard concept art, but the current tank's meh firepower won't really benefit from it. Lockdown Magrider looks like it would really become the mobile tank destroyer of old, but the gun's lackluster performance wouldn't have any of it.

Magburner doesn't really work with the two other tanks.

Vanguard Shield works with the two other tanks, but that's to be expected from such a bog-standard general-purpose ability.

Vanguard AP + max rank lockdown = devastating bombardment

I agree about the Vanguard, but the Prowler? Really? I could definitely find some uses for it, especially using it over Anchor mode in certain fights where staying still isn't likely to be very effective. It would be very nice for open plains and for places with abundant cover. Especially using the GK in open plains, and the Halberd for the cover-abundant terrain. I explained a bit in my previous post in this thread.

It would also be excellent for chasing down pesky Harassers, something I rather enjoy doing in my Magrider.

Why would it be meh? The Prowler already has the lowest TTK against the other tanks (barring special abilities), and with the Shield, it would even be able to stand toe-to-toe with a shielded Vanguard in a fair fight. Imagine a AP/Vulcan Prowler in cover-heavy terrain which enables it to get up close. I would take the Shield over Anchor every single day of the week. But then again, I'm a tanker, not a farmer

Fixed your mistake regarding the name of the ability But to stay on topic, I think the Vanguard would be pretty swell with Anchor. The real problem with 1/2 Vanguards compared to 1/2 Prowlers is the lack of kill potential at long range. Utilizing Anchor, the Titan-AP Shell would reach a velocity of 357m/s, and the reload speed would be reduced to around 2 seconds. I can see that being a DEVASTING AA piece (especially if using maxed Vehicle Stealth), and it would be awesome for the long-range flanks that can happen at times. I still would personally be using Shield most of the time though of course.

I assume you have done the math on this in order to make such a statement? According to my quick thinking, the Vanguard would gain a higher %-increase in DPS than the Prowler would. Why you say? For one thing, the reload bonus isn't a fixed number (like the reload cert upgrades) but rather a %. This means the DPS (from a base point of view) is upgraded the same percentage using Anchor. However, when it comes to the Prowler, the main cannons have a re-fire time of 1 second per cycle (½ a second after each shot) compared to only ½ a second for the Vanguard. Furthermore, this re-fire time isn't reduced by Anchor mode at all. And the 1 second re-fire time for the Prowler is a HUGE part of it's overall cycle with Anchor, meaning Anchor doesn't actually do as much as expected, due to the 1 second hardcap on re-fire time. With the Vanguard, the ½ second re-fire time is a smaller part of the overall cycle, meaning a larger part of the cycle is reduced by Anchor, leading to a higer increase in DPS compared to the Prowler.

Isn't it noticable on the Prowler? Again, the %-increase is the same, meaning it is actually a larger numerical increase for the Vanguard compared to the Prowler.

How so? The %-increase in the DPS of the Vanguard is higher than for the Prowler. Do you mean the Vanguard does such abysmal DPS that increasing isn't noticable? That sounds really weird, as the TTK's for the tanks is actually pretty close, and shaving off a significant amount is noticable. Combined with the strongest natural armor, which sort-of makes up for the stationary part. Just don't use a Vanguard-Anchor like a Vanguard-Shield, just like you won't be using your Prowler-Anchor like you would be using your Prowler-Shield.

This is actually a fun conundrum.

On one side you have the most basic assumptions:

1. The vanguard with it's slow but heavy hitting ap gun would for sure gain the most from lockdown
2. Arguably a prowler with magburn could rain HE death onto a base like no other tank
3. Vanu ... uh shield to not scratch the paintjob while driving over friendlies?


But then there is the reality (playstyle) of tankfights you have to consider:

At locations where larger tank battles actually happen/can happen it tends to end up in a "long" range *********** of tanks trying to nudge themself into place.

Here the vanguard shields only advantage is that you might have a bit more time to push that stupid lightning blocking your retreat out of the way.
On the other hand the lockdown ability (if somewhat coordinated or just trough the sheer number of people) shines in those cases.
And then there is the magburn, which is completly useless in those mass brawls.



Now on paper each tank should have more or less a defined role here ...
Tr are siege units
Nc could break trough lines
Vanu would be good for hit&run or using terrain


And this is what puzzles me ...
In a small fight, you actually see mbt drivers use their tanks mostly like that.
At least they try their best to play to their tanks advantage.


But once you herd a bunch of them together it suddenly always ends the same way.

Forget using the nc shield to break trough or rush into the tr prowler swarm.
Forget the manouverability magriders have.

It always ends in a ball of tanks huddling together until they are barely able to move an inch and long range bombardment.
I can understand if tr does this BUT it's the same for all.

Vanu loses the mobility.
The vanguards shield is worth crap all, if you can't even move behind cover (thanks to the guy humping your back).



Tl;dr.:
So while in theory you could come up with great combinations here ... truth be told it's lockdown for all empires.
All the other abilities will get ruined by your own faction, once a big tankfight starts.

Ehh I'm not so sure about that.

The Prowler has the highest DPS, equipped with a Vulcan secondary I'm pretty sure it is unmatched. It is also the fastest MBT and has a turret, which makes it possible to circle around an opponent - which the Magrider can't do as well because it has a fixed main gun and his sideways movement is too slow.
If you add the shield to that you have an undisputable close quarter (tank-)combat monster.

Adding the anchormode to the Magrider would be silly of course, unless VS could still turn their tank.
But to the Vanguard? The Vanguard already has the fastest shells.
A firing cycle of a reload maxed P2-120 AP is 2.5 seconds. 2 seconds reload and 0.5 seconds refire time for the second barrel.
Anchored its 1.5 seconds, the reload is halved but you can't reduce the refire tiime.
A Titan AP has afaik 3.5 seconds reload (maxed)
Anchored it would be 1.75s , almost as fast as the prowler.
The Prowler still has a great edge in DPS (1,666 vs 1,186) because its main gun is almost a quarter stronger (2*1250 vs 2075)
But especially on longer ranges (and where else would you use anchor?) the prowler can't just hold down the "fire" button, because the first shot has enough recoil to pull the second one off target, so you have to wait the recoil out or miss - which kinda equalizes this.
Unless of course you're shooting a building or your target is simply saturating an area with HE shells without caring where they actually land.

Aye many of the non-dedicated tankers are going to be using Anchor, since they are most likely in tanks to farm, not to "tank". Granted, a fair bit of tankers will also be using Anchor, but there will definitely be people using Shield. Also, try not staying near 3745 friendly units and instead try to flank the enemies, either alone, or in small groups. It is generally much more effective if you want to have an impact on the larger fights while being in a tank.

I'd rather keep traits where they belong, but to PS1 way:

VEHICLE HACKING!

Because Vanguard looks sexy in TR color scheme.



ninja edit: I have sex daily. I mean dyslexia.

First I'm shocked that you think that the shield is simply a throwaway ability to use to get close to your enemies. That's saying "hey we have similar tanks except for higher health pool, let's throw that extra health away just to get close, at which point our enemies higher maneuverability and DPS will nullify any advantage..."

I think that the problem is that getting together is simply the most effective way to deal with large-scale tank battles.

• Moving means a lower accuracy, thus less DPS and less chance of winning because large-scale battles are first and foremost a DPS battle
• Moving means focus-fire happens more easily. Not to mention that most battles happen from cover or around a chokepoint. Moving up to your enemy means leaving your cover or moving through a chokepoint, making you an easier target and allowing the enemy to focus-fire and reduce your faction's DPS faster
• Magriders need far less space around them to be capable of retreating to safety, their maneuverability also allows them to make use of more ground that would hamper the Vanguard and Prowler or be deemed unsafe due to the lack of nearby cover or reduced options for retreat. Not to mention the fact that Magriders can partly float under/over each other or float over Lightnings, reducing the chance of being blocked and increasing the chance of finding safety behind friendlies. This way you can have more guns pointing the same direction and boost your DPS for fewer deaths.
• Prowlers have DPS advantage, and the more Prowlers you get the more DPS you have standard over your enemy. This allows Prowlers to more easily deal with large concentrations of Magriders and keep a similar DPS despite the extra Magrider guns pointed at them.
• Vanguards have a shield... Which isn't to be used lightly. More often than not, the full 2000 health of the shield is never really used, especially since it's a perfect way to survive a bit longer if you can get behind cover. The small bit of extra damage resistance of the Vanguard isn't that useful, as only the people getting shot "benefit" while every single player on the VS or TR can benefit from their advantages. But in the long run, the long and sluggish Vanguards that are waiting around for their shield to recharge mean that they have more trouble getting enough guns pointed in the same direction, since they need tons of space to retreat and maneuver safely without blocking each other. This can be seen in the statistics: Vanguards survive the longest, but per time unit they get the least done by far.

I really wonder why no one else gets that the base Vanguard chassis needs an upgrade, and that the Vanguard shield needs a change (not necessarily a nerf) to make it more fun for everyone to both use and be used against you.

Amen brotha! I've been advocating such a change for years (before the Shield nerf, which I didn't think was neccesary with the proper changes made to the Vanguard and Shield to begin with). Just be prepared to be yelled at a lot

I'm interested, what kind of changes have you been advocating?

I tried focussing on passive increases and/or simple chassis improvements. Such as the ability to reverse at high speeds, which would instantly give the Vanguard a unique property compared to the other two that has a lot of use, especially in conjunction with it's higher armor allowing it to better do retreats, which in turn allows them to be more aggressive and pop out of cover farther without fear of not reaching cover in time.
Other alternatives are things like a stronger engine, allowing the Vanguard to deal more damage to other vehicles when he rams them and to even push them out of the way at a decent speed even if the opponent is trying to fight it.

going to have to disagree there, sure lockdown wouldn't be as good as on a vanguard and they'd be vulnerable, but the prowler? expect terrain that is good for lockdown? take lockdown and GK, close-mode combat with plenty of cover? AP, Vulcan with shield, shred magrider, lightnings and shielded vanguards.

Wait, how is the magrider not a tank?

magrider with shield could be pretty amazing in a tank fight,
vanguard with lockdown could be hellish for the person on the receiving end!
boost just doesn't really seem like it would work well for the tracked vehicles, you'd be more likely to tip yourself XD

The Prowler would benefit the most since it's main ability is completely against what the tank is for. Its high speed is one of its strong points and it give that up to gain even more firepower.

Prowler with shield: can just charge up to any other tank and with the shield and its higher dps will basically win any one on one fight with another tank. Or in the very least buy it some time to run away.

Prowler with boost: kinda like how lockdown gives it more firepower but takes away the ability to move this would make it even faster but doesn't impact the ability to shoot. Expect to see a lot of Vulcan Prowlers.

Vanguard would benefit the most from lockdown, and only a little bit from the boost. You use lockdown at ranges where the enemy should only ever be able to shoot at your front and a lockdown Vanguard with front armor combined with its already tough front armor would be a great synergy.

Magrider would do okay with the shield but lockdown would be amazing, since the tank has no turret it means the entire tank would have to be able to turn (or it would be beyond useless), which means it can lockdown right next to an enemy tank and turn to always ensure its front is facing the enemy.

Because it has the lowest firepower, is tied with the lowest armor and has several significant limitations like fixed main turret that discourage trying to play like an actual MBT, and traits like better-then-average hillclimbing, strafe and mobility quirks that encourage playing more like a heavy Harasser.

You're right about Lightnings, we can easily float over them, although that usually results in a nice AP round from that lightning to our undersides.

But I don't think you have seen a Magrider try to go OVER another Magrider, as 90% of the time it results in the Magrider on top flipping over, exploding and trapping the Magrider underneath with its lovely flaming debris.

Seriously, join Vanu and participate in a Magrider race to see just how easily this happens. Even better, is that when you are trying to go over a madrider in front of you, the plow design usually means your nose is going under their chassis and is lifting their rear, which plows THEIR nose into the ground, so that when you accelerate forward you neatly flip their Maggie on end and they topple upside down to their death.

Pretty spectacular, but not exactly useful.

It's been a while since people have been seriously jumping on the "NREF SHIELD!" bandwagon, so I can't remember it all. But yes, some of it has been increased mobility somehow (the Magrider actually already reverses pretty quickly, but it could go for the VG as well I guess). I'll have to look at threads at some point to refresh my memory, I just remembered I had been down that road repeatedly

Nowadays, tweaking the secondary-AV weapons is also a very easy thing to do, and I think that especially the Enforcer is a bit lackluster against moving targets at range. Of course I still prefer the Halberd, but I'm sure a good (and different from the Halberd) Enforcer could be pretty sweet.