How to use the jetpack sound of the LA to your advantage

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by InfamousOrnio, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Chemicalnurd

    I play a decent amount of both LA and infiltrator. I'm totally fine with the new LA sounds - they sound pretty cool I think, and the light assault isn't supposed to be the stealth class really. However, it'd be pretty cool if we could choose between this, a jetpack that is quiet but casts light, and a jetpack that does neither but has less fuel.
    A decrease in infiltrator cloak sound would be great though. If they keep it how it is it needs to last longer or actually make you difficult to see when you're moving.
    More choice is always better.
  2. Goretzu

    No one has actually explained how adding a sound that warns a target that a sniper is aiming at them is anything remotely like making the Jetpack noise a bit louder than it was.

    Dispite being repeated asked to do so. :confused:
  3. Hagestol

    Yes they did, and everyone understood and agreed with the hypothetical except for you.

    This again? Sigh.

    The intro movie doesn't show stealth, but it does show us bashing aircraft. So it is wrong. The site tells us that we're supposed to be assault, but it has been wrong since alpha so it has no credence. There are no dev quotes as to the sneakyness of LA.

    Contra: It has been sneaky since alpha.

    So if your vague opinion is correct then the devs must be extremely incompetent. Either way the LA is supposed to be a stealth class, or we'd have more survivability. Flanking is the name of the game and flanking doesn't do well with being heard or seen - at which point it becomes head on assault and we don't have the weaponry or survivability for that.

    As for the sound: They tried the CQC silent INF in beta. They stopped it, so while there isn't much proof LA isn't supposed to be silent, there is plenty that INFs are designed as snipers and not actual infiltrators, and thus the sound is well balanced for the range you're supposed to play at :)
  4. Chemicalnurd

    In that case, why call them infiltrators? Pretty dumb. In fact, why even bother with the cloak?
    Light Assault also implies that the class isn't made for stealth.
    For the record, I'm totally okay with it being used for stealth, but I'm totally okay with the infiltrator being the stealth class. Just not both at once. It seems like if they're gonna make Light Assault louder and let the infiltrator have SMGs they should go all the way and make the cloak good.
    However, the range at which the light assault jetpack DEFINITELY needs to be a lot shorter if they're going to do it that way, as you said, it's for flanking. A bit more maneuverability and speed would be great too (and it'd fit with the new sound, which makes it sound as if it's got more power.).
    If the jetpack has to be loud, it definitely does need some kind of buff in return, since the silence was the main reason it was good originally.
    Also, the infiltrator's abilities with regards to hacking terminals and such also imply that it should actually be able to infiltrate. Stuff like that should be fleshed out and made the main focus of the class imo.

    Therefore, more choice (between normal and stealth jetpacks, loud, long lasting cloaks and quiet, short lived ones) would probably be great for everyone.

    Also, the silent CQC infiltrator in beta sucked because it had a shotgun. With an SMG I don't think that's as much of a problem.
  5. Hagestol

    Easy. They were actual infiltrators in PS1 with real infiltrator jobs, needed to cap bases and they could hijack tanks etc. Now they are snipers. I mean why call engineers engineers when they don't actually make new stuff - only use pre-fab turrets and repair?

    As for the beta example: They could do the same with a pistol. They removed the shotgun and added sounds - and righfully so, nobody could do anything about it and it was frustrating. At least the LA were never invisible and silent at the same time as having OHK, now they only have 1/3 with select weapons.
  6. Goretzu

    No one has explained how adding a sound when a sniper aims at you is exactly the same as making the Jetpack noise a bit louder. :confused:

    There's a lot of differences, and the only stated similarity is that you keep saying it is exactly the same without ever saying why or how. o_O

    For example all LA Jetpacks make the same sound, does that mean that friendly snipers aiming at you would also make the "a sniper aiming at you" warning sound?

    And why only snipers when LMG, Battle Rifles and Slug Shotguns are all capable of dropping a infantry person from sniper rifle range? Should they then not get it too?

    What about Liberators aiming at you? Or MBT or Lightenings?
  7. Hagestol

    No one has explained how adding a sound when a LA jet packs at you is exactly the same as making the cloak make noise at enterance and exit.

    Nothing is exactly the same, they are just comparisons, utility for long range vs short range classes, with completely different properties - one is only on activation/deactivation and renders you invisible in the meanwhile while one makes noise all the time and makes you visible both to the eye and ears.

    These are all just hypothetical comparisons, even yours. You've yet to prove that the comparison LA:INF is valid yourself, and no LA has yet to believe you on that. But when we come with a valid comparison to the actual situation where the noise is generated (right before a kill, unnoticable and not possible to react to) you refuse to see a likeness, because apparently the INF deserves the kill without any notification but the LA doesn't. An that either makes you a troll or unable to see a point that everybody else in this thread got.

    Either way you're wrong. Sorry mate.
  8. Wolfwood82

    Snipers and LA are both capable of OHKs with the proper weapon and ideal circumstances.

    One difference is the range the two are capable of doing it at. While the LA is capable of only doing it consistently at somewhere between 0-5m, the sniper is able to accomplish this feat on any infantry within LoS. However the sniper is only marginally less capable of doing this as close as 0-5m, again given the ideal circumstances.

    The other difference is that the sniper has to aim for a head shot, which isn't as difficult as people like to make it sound. Really it's no more difficult then having to close from 20-5m on a target without being seen or noticed (before the nerf). The LA doesn't really need a head shot, but again has to be within that 0-5m range to get a consistent OHK, and even in this range it isn't a sure thing.

    Before the nerf, these two situations were fairly well balanced with each other. The probabilities were such that, while infiltrators had a bit more work and skill needed to perform their OHK, they could do so at virtually any range so long as they had LoS to their target. LA did not have that massive killing field, and those with a pump action shotgun are severely limiting themselves in range and forcing a set play style on themselves. Less skill for about the same effect, but far less versatility and operation ranges to compensate.

    After the nerf, snipers now hold a key advantage. No one is warned of their presence until after they start shooting, and usually only the guy they kill is the one who knows that a sniper is shooting at them. The only way for such news to spread quickly is for a platoon mate to die to sniper fire and immediately report it to the whole platoon as much information as he can get (which isn't a lot because it's a OHK and you don't even get a direction from that shot).

    The two situations are identical because before the nerf, the two weapons were balanced with each other (after the shotgun nerf that is). Now, they are no longer balanced and snipers can easily remain undetected for extended periods of time while enjoying their OHK capability.
  9. Goretzu

    They aren't the same thing, but they are done for exactly the same reasons, to give a warning and counter (ironically, of course, dispite the sky is falling drama here, Jetpack aren't that big a deal Live still, certainly compared to the cloaking sound).

    Adding a sound to a sniper rifle aiming at you is like adding a sound to anything aiming at you..... because that IS exactly the same thing. :confused:
  10. Goretzu

    So basically you want to nerf snipers?

    Fair enough, that still has nothing to do with LA Jetpacks getting the noise increase they needed though.

    I however do love how you "justify" it by saying that as sneaky OSKs by LAs (which previously both you and Haggiston claimed "never happened" and therefore there was "no need" for a sound increase on Jetpack o_O ) have been "taken away" and therefore snipers need to be nerfed because they can OSK - which mean you both must now agree about the cheesey issues with a silent Jetpack.

    I suggest you get onto SoE about your "noise if someone is aiming at you" idea. :)
  11. Hagestol

    Last attempt: INFs have (had) three ways of instantly killing others without notification:
    Shotgun/pistol/SMG to the face immediately from behind with no warning.
    Snipe from 200-400m distance with no warning.
    Flash/Wraith with stealth.

    LA had one way of instantly killing others without notification:
    Shotgun at close range if a person didn't spot him.

    Now the LA wasn't invisible, so it was psuedo-stealth. All the cases of INF stealth is either absolute or as close as you get.
    Adding sounds to other weapons would be overkill as you can easily spot their user and/or respond by taking cover etc. The sniper will in both said cases just OHK, the TTK of the SMG is so low that it might as well be at short range, and none of them can be responded to.

    Also, stop putting words into peoples mouths. Just because they don't repeat the same arguments over and over like you doesn't mean they agree with your warped opinions. The noise kills us on live and is still silly, and we've given feedback on that. Now we're trying to teach you how your own logic can easily be applied back at you.

    Your point: LA should have noise on their jetpack because they come from unexpected angles. Stealth. It was "overpowered". You died because you had no way of avoiding it. There is no difference to sniping someone at hundreds of meters away and silently shotgunning someone with one shot. Either way there is no response time.

    If your reasoning is that the unexpected angles were OP without sound then INF should get a proper nerf next patch.
    If your reasoning is that LA should get it because of logic I refer you to immortality, floating tanks and stealth devices.
    If your reasoning is that LA should be nerfed because you personally had a problem with it I suggest learning to look up.
  12. Goretzu

    So you too NOW agree that the silent Jetpack was a massive advantege and very capable of getting the silent OSK?

    This is exactly why they increase the sound level. So we agree it was needed. :)

    Now if you want to nerf snipers that's up to you. I completely disagree that putting a noise one sniper rifles so you know that some one is aiming at you is the same or needed, or even possible (which is going to be your biggest issues in getting that implimented :eek: ), but if you think that should happen you need to take it to SoE not me - although your only reasoning still seems to be some sort of misplaces bitterness, as otherwise you'd want this noise for all weapons. :confused:

    I'm just happy we've finally agreed that a functionally silent Jetpack needed a noise increase. :)
  13. WaiZen

    That sound on the jetpack got me killed so many times, It's annoying lol. I was flying up a tower and seemed like some TR heavy was waiting for me... :eek:
  14. Hagestol

    Wait, you quoted this:

    And got to this conclusion?

    Now I know you're just trolling. Just had to check.

    FYI: No. I accepted the premise of your argument for my example only as I said earlier, to prove that if the LA is overpowered with silent jetpack, then the INF is thrice overpowered with flash, snipe and cloak. But the premise is wrong, as did everyone on the previous page agree to. But still, A for trolling effort.
  15. Goretzu

    I quote your whole post where you agreed that the silent OSK from a LA was too much, and therefore should have been changed with the extra sound levels they put in.

    I disgree that a "Shotgun/pistol/SMG to the face immediately from behind with no warning" is possible given that Inflitrators cannot attack when cloaked and there IS a destealth sound (just like with Jetpacks now).

    And I disagree with "Flash/Wraith with stealth" because again that can't kill you whilst stealthed.

    So there was one and one.

    Sniper shot and LA effectively silent Jetpack (which has now been fixed).

    Now I disagree that a sniper rifle should somehow make a sound warning thier victims they are being aimed at (although if it were to have that then I think all weapons should also have it) and have seen NO reasonable cogent reasons why it should.

    But you finally agree that the Jetpack needed an audiable noise.
  16. Hagestol

    That was the premise of the discussion we had with you, nobody conceded your point as it is wrong and silly. Sorry.

    But for the sake of you understanding: Nobody agrees with you. Stop putting words into our mouths. You are wrong.

    The thing is: You can't really kill while jet packing, you have to land (turn it off if you will) so the CoF bloom isn't all over the place. So we couldn't kill while jetpacking either. So if it has to be an absolute likeness then all the examples fail.
  17. Goretzu

    Saying "no one" agrees with me repeatedly is neither proof that sniper rifles need to give a warning sound when aiming at someone nor that there is any problem whatsoever with the new more audiable Jetpack sound. :confused:

    So far all the proof seems to suggest that yes the new Jetpack noise is doing exactly what it is supposed to do (as you agree) and that a sound when snipers aim at you isn't needed.

    Also C4 whilst Jetpacking works, so do ballistic weapons if you're close enough, unless they've changed something since yesterday.
  18. Hagestol

    Nobody over many pages agreeing with you is statistical proof that nobody agrees with you. Sorry mate.

    And no, I don't agree, as I specifically said over multiple posts. Stop lying.
  19. Goretzu

    Statisitcal proof of what?

    There is neither any statistical proof of Jetpack noise (of any volume) nor of any need or no need for an sniper rifle being aimed at you noise any more than there is statisticaly proof of the yeti or that the colour blue is strawberry flavoured (even though someone with sense disporia might percieve it as such).

    You do agree that the silent OSK with Jetpacks was too much though, as you have said it was very powerful (at least a powerful as sniping), we just disagree that adding an noise that lets you know when a sniper rifle is being aimed at you is needed or would "balance" the more auidable Jetpack noise.
  20. Hagestol

    Nobody over many pages agreeing with you is statistical proof that nobody agrees with you.

    does not equal

    statistical proof of Jetpack noise

    I don't agree with it no. I've said it plenty of times, the INF vs LA argument was a made up argument to make you see how your examples could easily be applied back to the INF being OP. Everyone else agreed, but you didn't get it so we gave up. That doesn't make it our opinion, it was an attempt at making you see your own flawed logic.