[Guide] How to not be a C4 victim as a tanker

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by jak, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. Phazaar

    The reason the cost for C4 didn't double when the cost for a tank is very simple. Light Assaults are not using a force modifier (neither are medics/HAs/engies), they're simply using a utility. The utility is haphazard at best, and exceedingly costly given that it has a finite amount of damage it can do. The absolute best case scenario is using 2 C4 for 200 resources and killing two tanks+4 occupants, if those tanks are immediately adjacent to one and other. That means 500*2+300*4 xp if ALL of them are extreme menaces. Oh, and 10xp for the group kill. So 2210xp. 1100xp in a more reasonable situation, IF you're successful. 0xp if you're not.

    For 450 vehicle resources, you MIGHT die to 200 resources spent on C4. You might die to 0 resources spend on rockets (why does no one complain about this? It takes -far- less risk than C4. Oh, because it's less annoying, and they've more chance of getting the kill whilst still not having to pay attention). But, for that 450 resources, you put yourself in what is essentially a 3* force multiplier (3 times higher score per hour, last time I checked, anyway). In fact, it's more than that because your gunner gets a 2.something force multiplier too.

    Rather than having a finite potential earning, as with C4 (or tank mines, AV grenades etc etc), or the potential that your resource investment does not increase your power (grenades miss, C4 doesn't detonate, mines get avoided. Tank shell replaces your main gun; if you don't hit, that's only the same as missing with your carbine/RL. Tank armour replaces your health; anything that would kill your tank would have killed your inf.), you -become- your resource investment, and in return, it amplifies your score. An 'average' LA will earn 7-10kxp/hour. This is tripled to ~30k/hour in an MBT. If you only make the MBT survive for 6 minutes, rather than earning 1kxp, you'll earn 3kxp. If, on the other hand, you make your MBT survive for 30 minutes (the battle for what, 2 bases? maybe none during high pop), you'll earn 15kxp instead of 5kxp. So for 450 resources, you're making 10kxp, vs a maximum of 5.5kxp for the same amount of infantry resources (and a FAR more likely number around the 1-2k mark).

    TL;DR: Stop trying to argue for costs based upon what kills what, and start realising that costs need to be relative to what something achieves on average, not what it might achieve under perfect circumstances. If spending 100 resources on a MAX nets an average player 20kxp, whilst 100 resources on C4 nets them 500xp, there's a problem. If spending 200 resources on C4 nets an average player 10kxp whilst spending 400 on a tank nets them 1kxp, there's a problem. The former was the case. The latter has never been, and isn't the case.
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  2. NC_agent00kevin

    I dont like somthing that cost 200 certs destroying something that costs over twice that. I even use it pretty often, though I use it on Maxes more than tanks. It doesnt need nerfed and it already costs 100 resources so you cant exactly spam it; but its out of balance with the cost of an MBT.

    On the rare occasion I die to C4, it was either a player in a totally random location or he spent a LOT of time setting up and going around the fight/coming from another base just to C4 one vehicle. IMO I still won that one since he wasted so much time getting no kills, certs or score per hour just getting to me. While he was riding a flash from 100m away intent on destroying ONE vehicle I was killing the crap out of everything. All good thing must come to an end; be it by C4, Dalton, or another MBT.
  3. TheBlindFreak

    Really now? Rockets launchers use no resources and they can kill something that is 450 resources. Same with the AV MANA. And also with the bases Phalanx turret. Hell, the phalanx doesn't even require any certs.

    Obvious fallacy is obvious.
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  4. Mythicrose12

    I've used a decent amount of C-4 against tanks (though mostly sunderers plush UBGL). While I disagree with tankers wanting C-4 nerfed in damage or cost even more resources, I do at least have some empathy for them (especially as people catch on to the squad deploy, squad beacon SNAFU). There's still no need to insult tank drivers nor should they be insulting the C4 user. Admit it not, they know there's usually more luck (if not skill) when an infantry gets them (them as in the good tankers).

    Eskimo and I even discussed a certable defense similar to blockade armor that wouldn't be too bad (it's in the MBT vs C4 thread). In essence, it would give the tank a little more protection from rockets (such like direction armor) and reduce C-4 damage. However, it would also make the tank using it a bit more vulnerable to AP tank cannons and daltons. Besides, mines would blow them up (which...squad deply + mine works as well as C-4).

    I do think C4 is over hyped. At best, I can use all my C-4 to kill 20 tanks (20-40 people if they don't bail for what ever reason). How many infantry and vehicles could those same 20 tanks possible kill? I'm sure that count would be much, much greater. Even the best tank drivers will be caught off guard. Proximity radar does help, but it almost useless to a drop pod attack or even from a galaxy drop.
  5. NC_agent00kevin

    Rockets give you warning and take more time.

    AV Mana turret gives you warning because it takes time.

    Base Phalanx Turret takes time and gives you warning.

    C4 is instantaneous without warning.

    Obvious fallacy is obvious.

    Either post something constructive or dont bother kiddie. I even said I didnt think it needed nerfed or the cost increased, and yet here you are frothing at the mouth over it. You can even see that I make use of it in my signature. But no, you dont care about that - anyone who doesnt agree with you 100% MUST be wrong. Telltale signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
  6. TheBlindFreak

    I'm sorry, but what the actual ****?

    How does the effectiveness of the rocket launcher change the situation? You asserted that C4 since c4 only costs 200 inf resources to kill something that costs 450 resources, the balance was off.

    I pointed out the error in you logic by providing examples other examples.

    Quit being a jack *** and put your grownup thinking cap on, "kiddie".
  7. jak

    Well, if you were to follow my lessons, you would be moving more often than not - in which case, the likelihood of someone being able to drop on your moving tank, toss two C4, and eliminate you from the gene pool is very poor. Trust me, nothing irritates me more than wasting my beacon or squad drop on a tank that starts moving as soon as I start steering the drop pod. All that being said, you should be going into 3rd person anytime you hear a drop pod to determine if it's friendly or foe. It's really not that hard.
  8. RogueComet

    He put vehicle stealth on the list for those times you are NOT shooting the enemies. You'd be surprised how many of our C4 kills are also from people who fall back to repair. If you do that, you aren't shooting, thus you aren't on the map, so we don't know exactly where you are at.
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  9. NietCheese

    you do realise that removing Vanguard shield and Nanite auto repair is a substantial nerf for a tank? Won't get C4ed but you'll be far more likely to lose fights against armor or be hoverspammed.

    The problem is C4. Tanks just need more survivability against it.
  10. jak

    Use movement in conjunction with stealth. Stealth is arguably irrelevant with good situational awareness and movement, but it's an added tool in the chest. As a tanker, you will drastically increase your lifespan by understanding when and how often to move.
  11. jak

    I realize that your death machine shouldn't be immune to everything simply because you want it to be, yes.
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  12. NietCheese

    I'm sorry, at this stage, with powerful base turrets, AV turrets, Strikers, tank mines, C4, ESFs, Liberators, Raven Maxes, Fracture Maxes, ZOE Comet Maxes, various lock ons, various dumb fire rockets, if you cannot kill tanks you are just bad at the game.

    They are no "death machines immune to everything", they are fragile and can quickly die to any number of anti-vehicle tools in the hand of "competent" players. Yes, you need to be competent. Good luck.
  13. jak

    Interesting that you take a passive aggressive jab at my skill level.

    Tanks *can* be fragile when you don't use the tools in place to make them less fragile. My lightning actually runs smoke and I almost never die rockets (if you're dying to dumbfire rockets, you're not paying attention). ESFs/Libs aren't generally a problem because I don't drive a tank out into enemy territory where I'm not somewhat supported by AA. Tank mines...lol. Maxes, about the same level of threat as dumbfire rockets. AV turrets can be dangerous, but are static and shouldn't take a whole lot of intelligence to deal with unless they're in packs. C4...well, that's the whole post.

    Pick your poison. We all have to make sacrifices in the game because the game doesn't currently allow a super soldier or a super vehicle.
  14. TheBlindFreak

    Yes, go back and edit the post to which I already responded. Sure;y I won't catch that.

    Anyways, I always hear people whining about MANA turrets and how the rounds don't render, I.E. invisible projectiles ripping your tank apart. Yet you claim that you have plenty of warning.

    And c4 isn't instantaneous. It requires careful play as an infantry unit and getting close to the tank isn't always easy. It's only instantaneous to your perception because you didn't see it coming. Same goes for AV turrets, if you don't see them coming, which is often the case, they will seem instantaneous.

    And jeez, overreaction much? I never said that you thought it should be increased, I was just pointing out the error in your argument. And since you obviously don't understand how debating works, you should know that countering an arguement counts as being constructive to the debate.

    And yes, I did see your sig, and guess what, here I am having to respond to a post for the second time. (Since you probably won't understand this, I'm saying that you're a hypocrite, but I'm implying it.)
  15. Klondik3

    But isn't the vehicle stealth redundant if I'm already on the move because C4 sprinters can't catch up?
    If I don't move because I'm farming infantry then isn't the vehicle stealth redundant again as I will show on the minimap?

    Please shed some light on this.
  16. Klondik3

    But why is vehicle stealth better than auto-repair then?
  17. GraphicJ

    Proximity Radar... the mother of all C4 counters.
  18. RogueComet

    They are complaining about C4. If they can't find you, they can't C4 you. No need for auto-repair then.

    People need to realize that certs are SIDE GRADES. They specialize you in one area, not make you good in all areas. If you chose stealth it will help against the C4 people. If you choose auto-repair you have no right to complain because it isn't meant to be used against C4. If you chose radar, you have your item that will help against C4 but will not help as much against lock-on rockets. If you chose IR smoke, then you can have defense against lock-on rockets, but not so much against C4.

    You can't have it good in all areas like too many MBT drivers seem to want. SOE has never said that was supposed to be the case, they said they want side grades.
  19. Klondik3

    This is getting confusing.
    If I have auto-rep I don't have to go out and repair my tank. If I have vehicle stealth then I have to go out and repair my tank but at least c4 fairies won't see me. I'm curious why do you guys think vehicle stealth is better alternative to nanite autorepair?
  20. RogueComet

    See that's the problem. According to SOE, one thing SHOULDN'T be better than another if the game was properly balanced for certable stuff you can put on your MBT or MAX. Side grade means you get better in one area at a sacrifice for another area. It is kind of like, imagine you have armor tyep A that protects against rockets type 1. You also have armor type B that protects against rockets type 2. If you raise the effectiveness of type A so you take less damage against type 1 rockets, you lose effectiveness for type B that protects against type 2 rockets.

    In-game examples:
    Sunderer blockade armor protects from rockets but leaves you vulnerable to mines. Mineguard protects from mines but leaves you vulnerable to rockets.
    Nanoweave armor helps against bullets but not splash damage from explosives. Flak armor helps against explosives but not against bullets.
    A 12x scope on a sniper rifle helps at extreme ranges but not close ranges. A 2x reflex helps with close ranges but still doesn't have enough magnification for extreme ranges.
    Radar and stealth may help against C4 users but it won't help against rockets (due to distance) as much (I DO think Stealth should add up to 2 seconds for lock-on time for it to be viable at max level.) IR smoke, Vanguard shield, those things leave you vulnerable to C4 attacks but help you defend against rockets.