[Suggestion] How to improve the Magrider

And that's the whole problem. It's easier to figure out how to use a Prowler or a Vanguard.

I've used both. Wouldn't trade my magrider for either one. Prowler is better at long range bombardment. Vanguard is...well...It's slightly harder to kill if you're caught flat out.

All the MBT's require a pretty steep learning curve on how to best use them. Prowler and Vanguard are hard hitting beefier lightnings but they follow the same principles of use as the lightning tank and any understanding of how to play a tracked/turret vehicle crosses over to all 3. The magrider is the most unique so it takes a fresh perspective and nothing else plays like a magrider.

It doesn't make the magrider worse. Just different.

Well..... being different doesn't make it worse, but it's got a bunch of things that do make it worse as "balancing factors" because it's different.

From a response I made to a similar thread on reddit (edited for applicability) :

When has the Magrider been slower than the Vanguard?

I admit the velocity is **** on the magrider.
But it does preform damn well for having less tanks than both TR & NC;
Which should by the numbers alone, mean it should be getting less results, as there is less tanks on the battlefield.
If it does nearly equal, or better to tanks fielded in much higher bulk, it would give superior results in excess if equal in tank numbers.

Turning is a simple thing to test & tweak.
Still, don't undersell the magrider.
It's a devil to fight.

I propose a new line of utility-slot equipment for the Magrider, Vanguard, and Prowler, which would focus on a more aggressive play-style and engaging on favorable terms (tactical knowledge and assessment):

1. Vanguard- Sentinel EMB (Electra-Magnetic Barrier).
-Vanguard Titan-150 AP- -10% Damage Per Round.
-Vanguard Titan-150 HEAT- -15% Damage Per Round.
-Vanguard Titan-150 HE- No Effect.

-+5% flat resistance against all damage types.

-Rounds, upon successfully hitting an enemy target, do splash damage applied to all enemy infantry and armor that is not the originally hit target: 750 & 3 Meters - 0 & 6 Meters.

-Upon a successful enemy armor kill, a charge of EMB is gained (stacks up to 10 times):
-Vanguard gains 30% damage resistance against the next damage-capable attack against it (1 attack per charge).
-Upon the EMB being broken, the Vanguard main cannon is supercharged for the next shot of the main cannon (lasts up to 15 seconds):
-1.5x damage is dealt by the main cannon and secondary gun for the next shot / burst / 3 shots (for enforcer) / 30 shots (for machine guns).
-Upon a successful hit against enemy armor, an EMP effect (screen distortion + HUD disappearing) and reduced handling is applied to the target and all enemy infantry and armor within 15 meters.
-Upon a successful hit against enemy armor, the 1.5 damage of the shot (both main cannon and secondary gun) arcs to the closest 3 enemy vehicles within 15 meters of the original target, for full EMP + reduced handling effect, and dealing 2/3, 1/2, and 1/3 damage to them (from closest to farthest).

- 6 Upgrade Levels: 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 500 / 1000 certs
- Each upgrade level increases arc radius: 5 / 7 / 10 / 13 / 14 / 15 Meters
- Each upgrade level increases EMP effects
- Each upgrade level increases EMB charge capacity: 3 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 9 / 10
- Each upgrade level increases EMB damage reduction: 20 / 22 / 24 / 26 / 28 / 30 percent

As seen, this would require more gunner and driver skill in landing shots and managing damage, at the expense of the shield and main cannon damage. *This would be completely useless to HE-farmers*

2. Magrider- VX-30c Apastron Overdrive Core

- 10% Flat Movement Speed Reduction (in All Directions)
- -30% Hover Height
- -15% Acceleration
- +50% Gun Elevation
- +50% Gun Depression
- +30% Damage Vulnerability

- With each enemy vehicle kill (stacks up to 6 times):
- +15% Movement Speed
- +25% Hover Height
- +30% Acceleration
- -5% Main Gun Muzzle Velocity
- -5% Main Gun Shell Arc

- ONLY provides a flat +10% movement speed, hover height, and acceleration if using Supernova VPC (Anti-Infantry HE Main Gun)

- As seen, this would place more of an emphasis on using the Magrider's added maneuverability, speed, and hover height to survive, while being forced to compensate for increased damage vulnerability, and decreased main gun effectiveness. This relies heavily on personal skill and competence.

- 6 Upgrade Levels: 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 500 / 1000 certs
- Exact effects of each upgrade level to be decided (I'm lazy).

*Not very useful to HE farmers, now is it? No super-fast Supernova VPC + Photon II PPA Magriders Running Away From Tank Combat!*

3. Prowler- TR-9 Wolverine AOE (Advanced On-Board Electronics)

- +5% Movement Speed
- +10% Acceleration
- -10% Main Gun Damage
- +50% Main Gun Rate of Fire

- Prowler Main Cannon shells are now wire-guided, with no reload capability until both shells have hit.
- Prowler Main Cannon is now a 2-round burst auto-loader.

- Each enemy vehicle kill activates one charge of Wolverine AOE (Stacks up to 6 times):
- +5% Movement Speed and Acceleration
- +15% Main Gun Rate of Fire
- +10% Main Gun Muzzle Velocity
- +10% Main Gun Projectile Turning Rate
- +10% Main Gun Reload Speed
- +25% Main Gun Cone of Fire

- This would put a greater emphasis on getting kills, and choosing engagements wisely.

- If P2-120 HE is equipped as the Main Gun, effects are changed to +5% movement speed, rate of fire, and acceleration.
- Not so useful for HE farmers, now is it, SUCKERS?

*- CHARGE DEGRADATION-*

- Each charge of EMB / Core / AOE degrades over 6 / 10 / 13 / 15 / 17 / 20 seconds.

So the more pro you are at MBT, the more dangerous you get! I like it though it is screaming OP

Soo.... basically you're suggesting that the Vanguard and Prowler get almost straight up buffs, while the Maggie gets screwed in the A$$ ?! Hell, no.

Let's look at your suggestions in summary, minus all the numbers fluff around them.

Vanguard:
- Direct damage, + AOE
+ tons of damage resistance
+ damage and EMP on effects

Yeah, that looks real balanced. Sure, there's a minor direct damage reduction, but it's more than offset by the damage boosts provided by the ability, as well as getting a bunch of damage resistance and other nice toys like EMP effects.

Prowler:
+ Movement, + DPS and +accuracy (don't even need to aim and lead shots, just wire-guide 'em).
Ability is straight up buffs for as long as you can maintain it.

Yeah, I don't think so. This is a straight up buff to the Prowler with absolutely no real downsides that I can see.


Magrider:
- Movement, + elevation / declination, - 30 F'N PERCENT damage resistance
Each kill (assuming you could get any after the massive nerfs above) would add more movement and change up your guns velocity and arc, meaning that you'll be less accurate at range because your weapon characteristics are changing all the f'n time!

What?! What the actual ****?! This is a straight up nerf with absolutely no redeeming qualities.


Summary
These ideas are awful and you should feel bad even for making them! This is, in fact, No0T level ********! All I can say is "Thank GOD you're not a dev at DBG!" and I don't even believe in god!

Yeah, I don't get it too. How can someone propose an "aggressive" utility which practically ***** tank and makes its user confused as ***. After playing any other tank getting into Maggy requires complete change of mindset already. Even if I have lil experience in tank combat changing from Lightning into Maggy always confuses me.

Anyway, I think Mag is fine as it is tho I fail to understand why it has to suffer from less damage even if its gun elevation and muzzle velocity is so bad. On top of it it's manouverability doesn't always compensate for less armor tho I understand the idea of "flying" tank should weight less so it can... fly.... but .... advanced Vanu tech....

Let's break this one down, I've added in the numbers into the quote:

1: You are moving enough to dodge. As I already mentioned, aiming for the exact center means you basically try to hit the edges of the Magrider, which is only 50% all the way to 33% of the hitbox size of the center. Additionally most players won't be able to aim so perfectly at the center, and just slowing down to a stop while your enemy still leads you means they overshoot your chassis yourself and miss.

2: The fixed central gun and the hull-down abilities are seperate things.
Fixed central gun in PS2 means less speed for turning your gun. This is compensated by increasing the turn ratio's of the chassis, allowing the Magrider the fastest course changes and preventing enemies from getting more shots in the flank and rear. Another advantage is that you'll always be facing your opponents with your stronger frontal armor. So the only actual disadvantages is the inability to return fire while fleeing at max speed, and a lower turn ratio for your gun. Since the Magrider has the highest chance to actually survive fleeing the scene compared to the other two tanks, because of it's hover and Magburn, this is a pretty balanced option.
Hull-down is completely and 100% overrated. There's barely anywhere in PS2 where you can hull-down. As for the ability to "show less of your tank", the magrider only has to show around 60% of it's frontal area to it's opponents to do pop-up attacks from cover. The frontal area of the Magrider is relatively small and has that nice frontal-armor damage reduction. As a bonus the edges of the magrider have a much smaller hitbox, meaning players that fire too early might miss more often, however small this chance might be depending on the distance. In the meantime the incredibly long Vanguard and the blocky Prowler use the side-armor and still need to show... around 60% to clear their turret from their own cover and open fire. Ofcourse that side-armor has a larger hitbox and a lower side-armor (although not by much with the Vanguard), so in actuality the Magrider is the top best tank to be doing pop-up attacks with. Especially since as a Magrider isn't bound by it's chassis facing to go out of and back into cover, and since it has a smaller amount of tank that needs to clear the cover to get a shot off it's also faster in doing the pop-up attacks. Add that during pop-up attacks the Magrider basically negates the abilities of the other two: Prowler's DPS is negated by reducing the time it has to use it's higher fire-rate and the Vanguard by simply sitting behind cover during it's shield, and the Magrider is the absolute dominating king of pop-up attacks. Oh and since there's more Magriders that can use the same cover for this type of attack compared to the NC and TR this advantage is increased the more tanks there are.

3: The Magburn allows you to keep track, also the speed difference isn't great enough to actually escape unless you have a massive distance you can cover. And if you aren't capable of escaping in the Magrider, you are doing it wrong.

4: Already covered this in number 2

5: When a tank tries to drive under a Magrider it's basically a free advantage for the Magrider, because you can easily get off at the rear of the enemy tank, turn around and shoot them before they can turn. Also have you ever tried shooting a Magrider this way? Half the time your vision is clipping through and you don't know if your gun is aiming at the Magrider or missing the Magrider belly entirely. Since you only get one salvo before the magrider is behind you and murdering you this is a recipy for disaster.
And even if they did hit you in the belly, you can turn fast enough before they reload (even if they are Anchored) to prevent another rear-shot.

6: "The Vanguard reasonably well as 1/2"... I can make these type of setups work, but if there's any tank that requires 2/2 it's the Vanguard. The Magrider can still move and pull off a range of attacks and maneuvers, even seat-switching is useful for a nice finisher with the Saron. But the Vanguard? Once the battle begins the Vanguard can only react to what the enemy is doing, assuming the enemy does anything ofcourse. The Prowler and Magrider are either faster or more maneuverable.
Also the last results from Oracle of Death was that the Magrider was used around 70% of the time the other two tanks were used, however the trend was going back up again back to around 90 to 100%, where it usually is. So if someone could post an up-to-date monthly stat site or something we could prove that.

And lastly: The Magrider isn't underperforming. If you look at what the Magrider achieves for every minute it's in use, you can see that the Magrider keeps up and often surpasses the other two tanks. So it doesn't matter what disadvantages the Magrider has, even though it's the least used MBT it still manages to keep up.

1. After killing a vehicle, you get 30% damage resistance for the next shot taken. After this is broken, you get the extra damage and effects. Once per vehicle kill. And it degrades over time. And your flat damage done for every other shot fired is reduced. And you actually have to hit. So in summary: Once per kill. Degrades. Less effective in other circumstances. Oh, and you don't get the shield.

2. The idea with the Magrider utility (it's optional!!!) is that your mobility increases per vehicle kill, at the expense of extra damage done to you, and starting mobility. So, basically, you are rewarded for making use of the increased mobility to dodge shots and pick your engagements. But if you do screw up, you're going to regret it.

3. The Prowler main gun becomes and increasingly lethal 2-shot burst, which can't be reloaded until it actually hits something.

I read all that... what you're proposing is still a straight up buff to the Vanguard, a situational buff to the Prowler and a straight up nerf to the Magrider. Nothing's going to change that, the idea is still terrible.

These are utilities. If you can abuse the Magrider's extra mobility while dodging shots and choosing your engagements, this is for you. If not, Magburner. With the Vanguard, you either get the shield, or very situational extra damage and damage resistance. With the Prowler, you get chunky, precise damage at the expense of DPS. Again, these are all utilities. Not buffs and nerfs to the tanks themselves.

I see you're clearly of the No0T school of debate - Say the same thing over and over and over and hope to just wear down your opponent. Your ideas are horrible and have no place in the game, but I'm done arguing with you. I'm only prepared to smash my head against the wall so much.....

"everyone who disagrees with me is noot" is probably the 2nd worst thing you could use as an argument, right behind "everyone who disagrees with me is hitler"

Dude. Literally all that you've been saying is that my ideas are terrible because vanguards will be OP because reasons. When I attempted to explain to you why they would not be OP due to this utility, you just kept repeating this, and then called me a NoOT.

There was no argument to begin with. When you didn't get an echo chamber, you started repeating yourself. Then blindly insulted me. At least I tried to explain myself to you.