[Suggestion] How to improve the Magrider

For some strange reason, people believe in bullet drop only when recalling the magrider's main cannon?
I played VS.

The math there is literally not meant to take into every variable.
It is stating the base line truth of the matter:
If you pull less of something, you must get less results than those who pulled more of something else.

So if you want to address every variable, you first must accept this truth:
Less magriders, means that they should be virtue of being less in number, be less effective.
Having near equal means they are not obeying this, and can not be inferior.

Why would Any MBT use AA as a secondary.

Explain to me where A magrider can not strafe, and we can talk about 100% terrain at every base.

The purpose of a MBT is nearly absent: This is for all MBT's.

When the concept of "To have less, is to have less effect" is accepted.
Given that if something is fewer in number, it must has less effect than what is pulled more.
As what is pulled more, needed those additional numbers to have that effect.
To achieve anywhere near equal to those numbers, with less, is to be superior.

I can't stand idiots.
But I don't try to call everyone an idiot.

Sniper Rifles and vehicles have bullet drop that's a known. But as a faction trait it's irrelevant because it's meant for the rest of the guns which due to base design have basically zero factor as a trait in the game.

Your maths are assumptions and there are too many variables that are excluded to make it as something concrete. Like most polled stats in this game there are variables that aren't even numbers to cause effect. Nothing near the truth cherry pick away.

The Magrider can't look up to shoot at air you have to move the whole body to have a chance. Good ESF pilots like there chops when they see afew maggies. Just from personal experience and I'm still waiting for that Maggie ESF youtube video of planes falling out of the sky seen Vanguard and Prowler.

When you pull and use the Maggie at the right places and time and don't feed the armour columns fewer people could altar the overall stats. Especially if newbs aren't pulling MBT's and dieing this would make the effect of skilled players pull the stats up.

"You know what they say about people that assume"

Not all VS sniper rifles have bullet drop actually.
And for actual firing at range, it matters greatly.

My math isn't dependent on any variables beyond 2: The effect of Magriders, the Number of Magriders.
It is the simplest expression of the results, and is the second variant of it on this thread.
It isn't meant to showcase the weakness or flaws of the magrider vs others.
It is to show the presented by both sides, the value of the magrider which is near equal to the others, with the fact that less magriders are pulled.

In order for this to be true, as it is, then each magrider is superior to a single tank of either side.
As with less tanks, it achieves nearly the same results as tanks pulled in significantly higher numbers.
If a man fights 15 other of equal skill, and doesn't have a score reflecting the 15:1 in favor of the greater number...
The singular fighter is equal to more than the other fighters.
IE if the end score isn't less, with the difference equal to the difference in population, then it favors the fewer:
And to favor the fewer, states in hard logic, that the smaller number is of superior quality.

I do not need a massive *** data table presenting any and all variables of magrider performance to state this fact.
As both those who favor buffs, and those against it, have provided the Data to show near equal performance with less tanks.

A Prowler & Vanguard need a hill, the same as a Magrider to elevate their weapons to hit aircraft.
They don't have Elevation capable of reliably hitting aircraft, the magrider simply has a slightly worse elevation limit.
IE they both Need AA guns the same as the Magrider; And neither have the magburn to escape.

It's the projectile drop rate and velocity difference of Vanguard Cannons that achieves that effect.
Not the elevation.

If new players fed maggies to opposing armor columns, the number of Magriders would rise.
Unless the 'skilled' magrider pilots were an even fewer Percentage and able to achieve an even higher effect.
IE do recall, both TR & NC have similarly skilled tank operators, yet pull more tanks to achieve their higher results.
Vanu pulls less tanks, and nearly equals both of those higher-pulled tank created values.

You implied it first.
I merely implied it back.
It takes a devil to spot a devil.

The phaseshift? LoL man you digging deep talking about arguably the worst gun in the game. You lost credibility when you referenced snipers and vehicles with the no bullet drop trait. As it has always been known those aren't counted within the trait.

You math lacks the +- factor which could swing them higher or lower, once again we have unknown data.

Assumption.

Assumption based on old stats that don't have enough variables to make them substantial.

This is totally false and your showing your lack of knowledge across all factions with this statement.

Once again you need greater polling data to make this assumption.


"Stay Classy"

More than just that gun, which got revamped.
So it's not all that deep.

The +- factor about vehicle pulls, and the literal tank kills.
As that is literally what it is about.
If you want the +-, how about read the massive *** arguments? I built the simplified variant based of their data.
Jesus.

Old stats are better than no stats, let alone that You want more variables?
Like what?

You believe a Vanguard Main gun can aim bloody into the sky really? The target is either far as ****, or inside that elevation.
It's not all that grand to render them to have no use for AA secondaries.... Like ask any Tank Driver.
Hell ask the ones in this thread.

I need greater polling data about tanks pulled, vs tank kills...
Go look at the pages of arguments. I provided a labeled simplified version based on that data.
I didn't state it was a massive *** data table showcasing the magrider in comparison.
It was a literal simplified set of data, that states that with Logic, and math, if something is less, it has less value equal to the difference in amount, or it is superior not inferior to those with greater amounts.

Both sides pulled up more data than You certainly did; A grand zero.

Stay Comic.

Getting your heart rate up, how nice.

The stats have always been flawed because there are missing stats that are important to the discussion. People have always cherry picked and used the stats to make there argument legit.

So do you believe the Alert stats to be a real solid identifier to the power of a faction?

Yap the the Vanu snipers have bullet drop... or yap theyd be OP. Start naming the guns with no drop, might be hard to come by.

There is no need to pull data I've done it in the past years before you were around and the only stats that matter anymore are population and guess what direction those are heading.

the only one finding me comic is yourself

So quite literally you claim the stats are flawed.
And there are unnamed missing stats that are important enough to be unnamed.
Their Arguments legit.
Just like what you yourself are doing? Expect that you are trying to invalid any data possible, with none named to replace it.

Who said I ever was using Alert Stats? As per the arguments here, we aren't using alert wins to determine data about tanks.
Hell, I'm using the data provided in this thread from people: Those people vetted their own information.

Given it is 2 maybe 3 Vanu Sniper rifles, specifically, no ****.
However, isn't literally every non-sniper rifle, including their shotguns that has no bullet drop? Oh right, Yes.

So there is no need to pull data, since you claim to have done it in the past...
Wait,

Wouldn't Your own data be literally ancient using inaccurate stats due to all the changes?
So your own data would be useless due to your own statement of the time of their collection.

Not to mention, you haven't provided any data of any kind, nor shown any at all in your posts.
You don't state any variables specifically that are lacking, or which are needed to make them substantial.

And you apparently don't need to pull data to say this, since you pulled data apparently years ago...
Which is data years older than most data showed here in this thread.
And given that the sources for any such Data, are all basically the same, unless you want to cite sources...
You quite literally invalid your own data, due to the lack of variables available in said data.

Unless you care to cite your years old data sources, and explain how such un-updated data is any more useful than more recent data.

Of course I find you comic. I did literally say it.
You are a damn comedy channel to me. Is that clear enough?

Wow guess we're taking into account bullet drop for shotguns lol... I guess falloff doesn't mean a damn thing. Really Shotgun bulletdrop rofl. How can anyone take you serious with that comment.

There is nothing more needed to be said, anyone can just read the thread...

keep kool stay calm

Taking into account, no.
Stating that even the shotguns where bullet drop is near worthless, still has the effect, yes.

So the point flew past your head.
That's just glorious.

The ignoring of logic however, that.
That is priceless.

increase turn speed and it will do better brawling.

and the great thing is that you can adjust this based on the circumference of a circle while strafing/turning and just ask yourself how tight you want it, rather than introducing a new feature which would then need adjustment later to bring it up/down to level...

I think the mag has sufficient advantages to make up for being the worst brawler. How far into last place it can get away with being is a little more subjective. Fortunately, tweaking turn rate is not a broad brush, and a happy point can be found.

When something is so minor to the point of being insignificant there is no logic.

You mean that your years old data being years old is so minor?
While you literally go off about mere mentioning of Shotguns, for examples of weapons without bullet drop.
Contradiction.

There is no logic in using years old data over more recent data.
There is no logic in believing any data available is invalid due to unlisted variables not being accounted for.
There is no logic in listing or account for variables, and factors that are unnamed, and unlisted in Data or systems not reliant on these acclaimed missing bits.

So minor a convenience that anything that proves your points, disproves mine, happens to be left missing.
Yet of course, the act of cherry picking a single weapon out of a list of weapons not affected by Bullet Drop isn't minor.

Did I summarize what you wish to hide?

I can get behind that sorta.
The main issue being the time it takes to turn the chassis for any tank... is horrid in general.
But certainly could be experimented with, for the Magrider at the least.
So we can see the effects, and if it isn't excessively effective, while still making them more effective in those closer ranges.
As turning... isn't a factor for Magrider ranged combat, that is handled by strafing:

Summary:
I can get behind this, as all it affects is the ability to operate the magrider in close range.
And is it literally easy to adjust.

I'm just waiting to see exactly what the devs decide to give the mag with all the handling improvements planned for the other tanks. It better be something worth a damn.

Personally, I have very little experience with vehicles in general tho I would love to master Magrider in some time. Main problem I have is that Mag, compared to any other tank, forces you to change your mindset. Aiming with it is not very intuitive coz of massive projectile drop. When I am in Mag column I often get bounced by other vehicles which makes my tank spin randomly throwing my aim through the window.

As this thread is about (or supposed to be) improving Mag... how about giving Mag main cannon no bullet drop while keeping its very low bullet velocity? I mean, it is way harder to aim with Mag already, you cannot really park it in a sweet spot that covers whole base while keeping you covered, right? You can hide any turret tank behind some rock or in a trench, remain stationary and still can aim. Not the case with Mag, you need to be almost fully visible and open to enemy fire. Also, that (in)famous climbing ability only means that good pilots can more efficiently flank enemy but at the same time it makes Mag easier targets.

VS weapons with bullet drop

Semi Auto Snipers and Phaseshift
Shotguns
Rocket Launchers (excluding the Lancer, Comet and Max Lancer clone)

Also those nice charts showing how deadly the Magrider was after the games release miss one minor point such as how many of those tanks had a second gunner?

As the VS figured out that the Mag sucked without a Saron on top (which was 30% off at the first Xmas sale incidentally) so tended to field them.
Amusingly on the test server (prior to GU2 aka the death of the magrider) a number of VS swapped to TR or NC and crushed magriders used by TR/NC because they also used gunners in said prowlers/vanguards whilst the maggies pilots were trying to solo the mag.

Since GU2 every VS has complained about how weak the magrider is not just on paper but out in the field. Oh it can straffe to avoid damage (except at less then 200m as it will still get hit) etc etc is the usual response.

Hence less mags in the field, its something that the devs have looked at but not figured out to balance out as increasing damage may make the mag too powerful and create a faction of the month feel to VS.

Same as the Max abilities, NC get something useable, TR get something very very situational, VS get diddly squat other than suicide mode now.

GodMode isnt enough? /facepalm

Personally I would increase the magriders projectile speed to that of the unlocked prowler.
Increase the straffe speed by 5 for racer and 10 for the other chassis.
Possibly look at also increasing the duration of mag burn from 1 second to about 10 and increase the turn speed of the mag.

Then leave for a few months to gather data and tweak as appropriate.

A 1000% increase in magburner duration?

1000%?

Not true.

Look at this chart for example:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=playtime&weapon1=3460&weapon2=3730&weapon3=4008

You'll see that while the Magrider is often the least used, it's not the least use by much until the ESAV update came along. You know the ESAV update? With those nice little Gatekeepers pewpewing everywhere...
Just looking somewhat back, you can even see times where the Magrider was the most used vehicle, rather than the least used. But if you are looking at the time-trends then you'll see that the Magrider is already going back to it's former levels. Since the Oracle Of Death has stopped the numbers might actually indicate that the Magrider is back on par again.

And no matter what you say, the Magrider is on-par or exceeds the other two MBT's in just about every single statistic. and that's despite being the least used.

Well within 1 month the "appropriate" tweak would be reverting the changes. The Magrider already scores similarly as the other two tanks. In fact the Vanguard is behind the other two on most fronts, and the only truly advantageous stat that the Vanguard was always giving, the best MBT killer, is exaggerated as the Magrider kills almost the same amount of MBT's per hour as the Vanguard. And that's just talking about the main gun, if we added the superior Saron gun...

Magrider suffers from the 10% rule. You have to be 10% smarter than the equipment you're using otherwise it won't work as intended.

The 10% rule was something we used to say when I was in the army and I was asked to fix a piece of equipment that wasn't broken. It's basically a way of saying the operator is the reason for the problem. Not the equipment.

The magrider is a damn fine piece of equipment, but it requires a bit more from the operator to get it to really shine.

So to all of you that says the magrider needs a buff, or is underpowered. I say the 10% rule is in effect. You have to be 10% smarter than the equipment you're trying to operate.

Figure it out or don't use it. (I'm guessing from usage statistics most people fall under the latter)

The magrider is incredible just the way it is.

http://ps4us.ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=ziggurat8&show=vehicles

In case you think I've never used a magrider.