[Suggestion] How to Balance Close Range BASRs

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scroffel5, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Nice try, Billy. See, the thing about being condescending is you have to be, you know, right.
    Obviously this means that my and everyone else's definition of CQC is wrong. The only other possibility is that Smallz is attacking someone for a derailment which he precipitated in a desperate bid to score a point before he inevitably quits the field. Surely that cannot be the case?
    Actually, I was under the assumption that I was engaging in discussion with a functional, rational human being instead of a hapless brainlet. That is a mistake I shall not be repeating. At least you save me the trouble of addressing your argument by self-destructing it before our very eyes.
    • Up x 1
  2. Scroffel5

    You do realize that the CQC rifles can only OHK up to that range, right? At, least if I am not mistaken, but there is literally no point in having the max OHK range that far away as you won't use it in that range. And he did say CQC rifles.
  3. Scroffel5

    what is gay about infiltrators? Sniping isn't, as if you do actually score a kill and not miss every time, they are coming for you. If you hit the body, you alert them to your presence. If you kill them, you alert them to your presence. If you miss, you alert them to your presence. If you shoot, you alert them to your presence. If you cloak, you alert them to your presence. Snipers' presence is alerted, no matter what they do.

    I'd say SMG Infiltrators are gay and they they should be only allowed to be paired with NAC, and only Scout Rifles, Snipers, and Battle Rifles can go on the Hunter Infiltrator. Go ham with your NAC.

    I'd say Stalkers are gay because of only one means of detection and they choose the engagement, but they have a potential for greatness.

    Not all Infiltrators are gay.
  4. pnkdth


    Are we even talking about balancing a class anymore? If you guys need to get something off your chest, be our guests, we are who we are.
  5. DarkStarAnubis

    Godwin's Law dangerously creeping...
  6. Scroffel5

    I already discussed my ideas on balancing, but no one cares so I'm not gonna say it here. I already have said it elsewhere. Back on task, though. CQC bolt actions are pretty dang good and turn the Infiltrator from a 1v1 straggler killing, enemy disrupting, recon giving class to the likeness of an HA.
  7. Campagne

    That's something Hitler would say!
    • Up x 1
  8. adamts01

    Don't be ridiculous. 70% of players aren't infils. Counting infantry in baees I'd bet at least 50% are heavies, with maybe another 1/4 made up of medics.

    Removing the HA shield doesn't mean the class has to be weak. Maybe let it equip 3 armor slots instead. I'd much rather take nanoweave, flak and grenade bandoleer or ASC instead of the shield.

    And yeah, 20% body resistance is big. The industry standard for headshots is a 1.6 to 2x multiplier. And that's even in a lobby shooter with a match maker. That's the sweet spot for rewarding skill without going overboard. Nanoweave plus aux shield makes the heads hot multiplier 2.27x. Adrenaline shield bumps the multiplier over 3x. So yes, this game does stand out from the crowd in a huge way. When you ci spider other games with a 20% extra body shot resistance there's always a huge tradeoff for that strength, but in PS2 it's the stbandars choice with no real drawbacks.
  9. TRspy007


    perhaps, but a majority of them are. Sniping is painfully annoying, and unlike other classes, the victim typically isn't aware of the sniper, until he dies to him (of course, there are mega-idiots that miss, but for the sake of this I'll assume the typical scenario). An invisible class with a 1htk weapon at any range is not my idea of an fps. In real life, sure snipers (and practically every gun) can instagib me. However, this is a game. Most weapons, including "HEAVY" weapons take multiple shots to kill. Hell, most secondary guns, including the halberd don't kill you in one shot.

    The whole concept of this cloaking class that acts like a vulture, camping terminals, stalking points, killing people from extreme ranges with the protection of cloak in addition to cover - it just goes against the concept of the game.

    People are angry about how main TANK weapons can kill infantry with one hit. Why should snipers be allowed to instagib people if people have problems with tanks and shotguns doing so? Especially when, unlike with shotguns, snipers can 1htk at any range (and to the person that tried arguing against this, yes, most snipers can instagib you past the average render distance), not only that - their users can cloak and usually run away - unless they are complete morons.

    Since the change to nanoeve armor where it applies damage resistance instead of additional health, snipers have just been an increasing infestation of parasitic trolls to the game. It always seems like the people that snipe are pathetic losers, who have no skill in the game, and instead of learning to play proper classes decide to cover up their incompetence by camping terminals, stalking a base and overall just being complete trolls, without actually having any value to their team.

    Sure, there's some great players who play infil sometimes (VoodooMonkey for example) - but they do so because they have already mastered the difficult classes of the game, and contribute significantly more to their team when they play heavy/medic/engineer. A great majority of infils are just players who decide not to challenge themselves, and resort to infil as their only means of survival. It almost feels like the infiltrator class in itself is a hack: you're invisible (especially at night or on hossin), and you have the potential to wipe out entire squads without being noticed, unlike the heavy which usually gives up it's presence once shooting.


    Even removing my infiltrator bias, it's clear infiltrators are an anomaly in the game. All classes are either meant for support or pushing, the infiltrator doesn't fit in either. Hacking and recon devices could be transferred to the engineer, to make it a little bit more useful, and infiltrators removed from the overall experience. The class is so powerful the devs had to reduce it's base health, which clearly wasn't enough. Seriously - something is wrong with the infiltrator.
  10. TRspy007


    Asides from insulting people, going in circles and making poorly formed sarcasms, you haven't done anything. No facts, no points deconstructed: clearly you have no idea how the game works and are in no place to comment about anything. You haven't even managed to make a single logical/valuable statement in the whole thread.

    ...then again, what more could I expect from a gayinfiltraitor, who proudly displays so in in his profile.
  11. TRspy007

    The point is, there's a significant increase in infiltrators compared to the original days of the game (and that's not a good thing).

    The thing I'm saying is that 20% body resistance is good, but means nothing because a significant portion of players go for the head. Symbiote and nanoweave end up working against new players - they aren't protected by the 20% reduction since everyone goes for the head, and instead are penalized when they try shooting at a veteran who has either equipped.

    Equipping more suit slots might be a good idea for heavies, but it strips them of their ability to fulfill their role: leading the charge. That shield helps them take a bit more damage of any type (except sniper headshots), and effectively lead the way into buildings until the support classes come assist them. The point of the shield is to protect their health, so the damage resistance is used as last resort (because it only adds 1 more bullet to kill anyways). Removing that shield basically makes them weaker than a carapace medic, and puts them into a MAX state, where they wouldn't be able to fulfill their role without having support classes stuffed up their rear.

    Equipping multiple abilities should be something MAXes get to do, but it simply wouldn't work with heavies.
  12. Scroffel5

    Snipers aren't mega idiots just because they miss. The farther you go out, the harder it is to hit your shots, but the less likely you are to die. That allows you to kill a few guys if you are good enough, or if they are stupid enough to stand still, which greatly impacts your KDR. If 7 guys stand still and you are in a position to shoot them, you just got yourself 7 kills, sheerly because of how far away you are. However, when you get into close range, you are screwed.

    I think it also matters about the impact you make to the game as to whether or not your class matters, not just kills. A sniper could kill a ton of people and do literally nothing, while a Heavy Assault gets a few kills and leads the push into a spawn room or past a choke point. Its not about killing the most people; it is about killing the right people. You have to prioritize targets as a sniper and make sure you don't miss or that if you do, they die before they reveal your location.

    You can see a sniper shooting at you, and there is a limit to how long they can be cloaked. Along with this, there are bright tracers. Why are they called tracers? Idk, but if you trace the line back to its origin, you find the shooter, in this case a sniper. Tracers make the game so much easier, and if he shoots at you and misses, well whoop-dee-doo, you know where he is. If snipers were OP, they'd have a higher accuracy rating. Right now, the best accuracy I have seen is 50%. That is pretty good, but if you only have a 25% headshot accuracy rating, you are in trouble. That means that out of every 2 shots, 1 hits, and out of every 1 hit, only 0.25 are headshots. That means that out of every 8 shots, there are 4 hits, and out of every 4 hits, there are 1 headshots. That means you get 2 to 2.5 kills out of every 8 shots, given that 2 hits is enough to kill and you hit the same target with those 2 shots. You'd get 3 body shots and one headshot, and we know a headshot is enough to kill within a certain range.

    How do you ward off a sniper? Don't stand still, listen for sniper shots, listen for cloaking after the sniper shots, briefly shoot back. This greatly reduces the chances of you dying to a sniper. Honestly, if you are dying to snipers a lot, I really don't know what to say, TRspy007. I almost never die to snipers, and I should die the most to them because I am a sniper. I usually die to someone flanking me, so there are ways to deal with snipers without pulling a sniper.

    With the cloak, you only run as fast as everyone else, so that means that every 12 seconds, supposing you are at full cloak when you start, you are going to give them a hint to your location. If you run at 5m/s, that is every 60 meters, you are helping them find you. If you slow down to shoot, you are helping them find you. If you put down recon, you are helping them find you. If you shoot, you are helping them find you. Along with that, a sniper kills you with a headshot. A tank and a shotgun kill you with a bodyshot in a range where you can't do a single thing to stop it. Snipers get thrown off just by you moving, hence why we go for still targets. Also, tank shells are big and cause splash damage to you, so they just have to hit your general area to neutralize you.

    No one uses nano-armor cloak (NAC) for sniping. Why? The damage resistance only applies while you are cloaked. It only helps you run away. It is also very short. The extra 100 shield is nice, but that doesn't matter when you are sniping, as 100 shield probably won't help you much. You typically use Hunter for sniping because it lasts longer and recharges faster, which is much more helpful. What are the chances you are going to get headshotted by a sniper while you are cloaked? That is the thing NAC saves you from. Also, you keep mentioning stalking while you are talking about snipers. I agree with you that Stalkers are dumb because they can almost guarantee a kill per life, especially when using the Commissioner or Blackhand. Why are you mentioning Stalkers when we are mostly talking about sniping?

    Side note: Stalking does help your team, especially killing targets from behind enemy lines. One less enemy to deal with is better than having one more enemy to deal with.

    You compare the Heavy and the Infiltrator in this next paragraph. Yes, while it is true that Infiltrators have the POTENTIAL to take out a whole squad, it is very, very unlikely. After you fire the first shot, they can look at the minimap or trace your tracer to find out where you are. After all, they are a squad. They are also probably constantly moving, so you will have to lead every shot. If there are 12 people in the squad and you only have 5-8 bullets per mag (4 if you are the railjack and 3 for the Daimyo), you are going to have to reload 1-4 times to take them all out, not including the misses you make. It also takes time for the rechamber. Say they have 2 of each class. Their medics are going to revive all the fallen and they are going to know exactly where you are. So yeah, potential, but very, very unlikely. You'd have to be extremely skilled to make this play. The Heavy Assault can go on a freaking killing spree, taking out a whole squad if they run at him 1 by 1. If he is running medkits, it is even easier to get back into the fight. He can also regen his overshield after every kill, and if he is running Assimilate, he can get his shield back and be ready for the next guy. That is why I say it is much more likely for an HA to take out a squad than an Infiltrator with a sniper.

    Also, it is a big assumption to say that a player like VoodooMonkey is only good at Infiltrator because he is good at the other classes first.

    While other classes focus on going ham or supporting the people going ham, the Infiltrator focuses on stealth, flanking, and reconnaissance to work well. Along with that, they have overall worse weapons than every other class. I find that Infiltrators are the most competent in dealing with other classes, because they play on a tactical level. They can't go ham, and they know they are a bullet down in the game of pew pew. Their cloak only helps them escape or get into a position to attack, but never does it help them actually stay alive. They have to fight with the element of surprise, their superpower. They are at a disadvantage in a head to head fight, which is how you beat them. I say that SMG Infiltrators should go to NAC. That way, they are more on par with the other classes in a head to head fight, and just let Hunters use Scout Rifles, Battle Rifles, and Snipers. It forces them to play even more tactically.

    And no, you shouldn't give away the Infiltrators tools to another class and remove it. Imagine Heavy Assaults sniping. You would then have to have another Heavy Assault to combat it, thanks to the overshield. Imagine a Medic sniping. You didn't kill it on the first headshot? Too bad. He is back to full health. Imagine a Light Assault sniping. No where could you ever be safe, thanks to the ability for the LA to escape, attack, and get into a good position. Imagine an Engineer sniping. With access to the MANA AV turret, Hardlight Barrier, Spitfire, and unlimited ammo, take your pick. He is self sufficient. Vehicles better cower in fear. They won't be flanked thanks to Spitty over here. They can make their own cover, which yes, does give them off, but small arms can't damage it. They also never have to leave for more ammo. You see, cloaking is the least of your worries. Cloaking just makes it easier for them to get into position and easier for them to get away. Yet, the downside is that it doesn't help you stay alive, and it gives you off each time you use it. That is different than every other class other than LA, which you can faintly hear the Jetpack for ranges. When an Infiltrator is in the area, other than a Stalker, you know.

    You can deal with Infiltrators in the game, but if you are having a problem, maybe I can help you.
  13. Scroffel5

    As Wii Sports Baseball has told me many times, *ahem* "THATS THE GAME! You lose!"

    New players are always at a disadvantage to older players. That is true of every game.

    Snipers can't fight indoors because of being too close, minus CQC BASRs. Remove the sight options and only give them an iron sight. That would help make it harder to us. You don't necessarily need to delete everything good about the CQC BASR. You just have to make them much harder to use. Make that handling crap, screw its accuracy thanks to a shortened barrel or something, ect.

    Snipers are fine is what I am trying to say. CQC snipers are not. I have an idea for the HA or for nanoweave. Why not make a better resistance to body shots but increase the damage of headshots?
  14. TRspy007


    Imagine no sniping? Completely removing that from the game. Along with stalker infils, but the ones that play hide and seek in an empty base and the ones that run vampire and 1htk knife poor groups of ppl.

    I don't die from snipers that much, I know how to deal with these clowns. As I said they are pathetic, skill-less noobs, once I find them, they drop like flies and are subject to intense teabagging + v5/v6.

    The think is, most counters to infils are painfully long and annoying (hunting down stalkers or snipers) or simply handicap you (dark light, taking vehicles instead of walking). And every time I do die to a sniper, it feels irritating because you know there's nothing you could have done to counter that. What's one tracer in a fight with hundreds of them flying around? Half the tracers don't even render properly, much less expose a sniper, who's already cloaked and moved away after his shot anyways. It's also a pain seeing them run into groups of teamates, and trying to kill them without get ting weapons lock.

    Don't even try saying that, the whole point of the cloak is to give you survive-ability and hide your position. Cloak, run n hide/redeploy If your final claim was true, no one would play infil: it reveals where you are.
  15. TRspy007


    Yes, new players are at a disadvantage, but it's way more significant than in other games.

    INCREASE THE HEADSHOT DAMAGE EVEN MORE??!?!?! AND INCREASE THE RESISTANCE TO BODYSHOTS??!?!??!
    you are insane.The exact opposite of what I said, and most veterans complain about.
  16. Scroffel5

    If it was to hide your position, it wouldn't make noise, and redeploying only helps you. You technically still die, but its not counted as a death. It reveals where you are when you use the ability. That is how I narrow down where an Infiltrator is, and how I will continue to do so. Also, that is simply untrue. People use the Deep Freeze and it is garbage, and purposefully so. People use the Flash without a Wraith cloak in combat, even though that isn't very viable. When played right, you can do well as an Infiltrator. When played wrong, you die. A lot. In fact, I went on my first real killstreak using the Tomoe yesterday because I learned to aim for the head and play it right. I took out stragglers and main threats, and knew when to run. It was fun, and we beat the overpop and bought time for reinforcements.

    Its funny though. Your point about hunting down Infiltrators is pretty much how it is supposed to go with snipers. You seem to agree with me about the Stalker thing. You shouldn't need a darklight to find a Stalker. You should be able to use the Darklight to make it easier, but you should be able to find them without a Darklight. You don't use a Darklight for a sniper, though. Also, you don't even have to kill the Infiltrator to necessarily counter it. If you just shoot at them and not make any hits, or just spot them, people turn around and they shoot. Also, sniper traces work differently than other tracers. They make a loud sound when they whizz past your head and stay a little longer. That is how you know it is a sniper. Even if they cloak and move away, they are going to shoot again. Just run towards his location, but not in a straight line, and wait for him to shoot. He probably won't notice you. And have you ever seen a Heavy with an OHK knife? Talk about hard to kill. He gets into your group and you just let him kill your teammates cuz there is nothing you can do. Infiltrators get into your group easier, but they can't stay alive or shrug off damage like an HA with a OHK knife can.
  17. Scroffel5

    No, do not increase the resistance even more. Just slightly increase the damage headshots do to Nanoweave. That helps new players when they get a stray headshot, and it'll reward them for aiming at the head while making nanoweave less powerful. Also, most people say that noobs are at a bigger disadvantage IN THIS GAME than in other games, which is where I thought you were going with what you were saying.

    I was saying that with a 20% resistance to damage, increase the headshot damage by maybe 5% or 10%. Maybe we could do 20% higher headshot damage to nanoweave but 20% less damage to everything else, but that may be overdoing it, as headshots are already pretty powerful. Thats what I say anyways.
  18. pnkdth

    So is anyone actually going to provide some data that infiltrators are 1) a scourge upon Auraxis 2) are over-performing or is this thread just an echo chamber for HA players longing for a time when their favourite class was so powerful virtually everyone was playing it? No? Oh, ok, as you were then...

    In other words, trying to sound all alpha while throwing a temper tantrum is adorable.
  19. Scroffel5

    As said before, I am an Infiltrator. That guy that TRspy007 referenced, VoodooMonkey, has a 3.06 KDR with this weapon and a 1.5 KPM. That in itself doesn't prove anything, and numbers don't mean all that much without context. Certainly not his best in KDR, but it most likely contributes the most to a battle.

    A guy named RejectedFreedom has above an 8 KDR with the SAS-R, almost a 9. The next highest are LMGs. I just think that they are too easy to use. We can reduce the muzzle velocity so you have to lead targets or take away the sight options so they can only use iron sights. That way, the weapon is harder to use and if you can do so, congrats.
  20. adamts01

    You're contradicting yourself. You say 20% extra body resistance doesn't matter because everyone goes for the head, yet HAs would be broken and couldn't push without their bodyshot resistance, which coincidentally makes headshots much easier to land.

    I'd country by pointing out how lousy most headshot ratios are for most players. At least half of everyone aims for the body, and only half of the remainder who aim for the head can actually chain shots.