How i feel about the sniper changes

Please note: This is addressing the SNIPER part of the infiltrator class, NOT SMGs

I have always been with buffing the sniper/infiltrator class due to the immense skill it takes to land a headshot (or 2 successive shots) but not this time.

....Allow me to demonstrate why the sniper has been hated for so long:

1- Hurr Durr infiltrator snipers are useless

Are they? Are they really? Forgive me for this but im going to have to quote someone to answer this question

Now ask yourselves this: Are we dealing with a useless class, or a useless player?

2- You can not fight back

This right here is where the problem comes in. Lets have a typical (although its pretty rare but whatever) scenario where someone is sniping from a distance, take in mind that 150m is where the changes take place.Alright. So you've got an infiltrator sniping a light assault class from 200m out. He carefully and skillfully lines his shot up for the headshot and gets it... lets pause for a moment.

Did this take skill? Of course it did. You can not deny that

What could the receiving end have done to stop it? Stop moving.
You see.. this is where the problem number 1 comes in

You have to stop moving or at minimum reduce your movement speed to aim/shoot/interact with objects (terminals)

Problem number 2 is that it is fully dependent on the shooters skill.



So lets say for example rambo was shooting the sniper. He would get lots of kills without any resistance for at least a minute unless someone successfully comes for just him alone

I'll try to make a TL; DR after i go beast-mode ingame


I kinda rushed the last part of the thread so i might re-do that later too

More likely scenario:

"Man, I just installed ps2, wat do? Maybe I should try that sniper guy, I do ever so hate getting shot at and that seems like a safe choice."

20 minutes later.

"Oh, instant action, ok."

30 minutes later.

"Well, I think I figured out who to shoot at now. I thought people in red uniforms were always bad in games though."

40 minutes later

"Oh sweet! I slipped and my mouse fell off the table and my gun went off and I got a kill at that base I can't really see. Spec ops."

And scene.

My issue with snipers is, if they're on my team and they're sitting way back I find them useless. If they're on the other team and they're sitting way back, then I find them either useless and occasionally lucky (the vast majority) or very skilled with astonishingly little counterplay (inb4 pulling a scythe is counterplay)--and they are still useless. Snipers on these forums say they prioritize medics and engineers--what they mean is they prioritize the people who sit still the longest because that's what they can hit.

In any of those cases I don't mind nerfing them at all.

The best snipers I've seen, both in my outfit and in others, operate within the 150M range proposed anyway. Long live FPS talent.

My issue is that:
snipers that only kill on headshots but can do so from 150m+ and instagib stationary targets is skill
a regular infantry guy using a PA that only instagibs on a headshot within 8m on highly mobile enemies is OP and pure cheese.

I hate all instagibs equally, it sucks but I deal with it. Now if infiltrators can stop sending me hate tells after I headshot your cloaked smg toting ***...

now tell us how you really feel.

on topic: erm feels like you began a thought and then just dropped it also your sign makes it hard to take you serious

I play LA almost exclusively and always run with Adrenaline Pump. Certain classes, like sniper infiltrators, and vehicles (like ESF and Liberators) are natural enemies because they are excellent counters for all the time when you are either trying to get to or are usuing an elevated position. I tend to juxtapose sharpshooting (i.e. mid-long range engagement) with running lead. By running lead, you limit the effectiveness of the sniper and bomber counters but open yourself up to pretty much everything else. By playing more of a sharpshooting role, you can leverage advantage against everything else by using elevated and out of the way positions to ambush and multiple your team's firing lanes but now you are distinctly exposed to snipers and bombers.

I like this. Of course, I do find it frustrating when a sniper targets me and either OHK or forces me out of position (often into a much more vulnerable position), especially if this happens several times in relatively quick succession or during particularly engaging moments. Still, I do not begrudge the sniper for the OHK because, IMO, this is exactly the role of the sniper- to focus on singling out strategic targets, targets that other classes would have difficulty engaging specifically. This includes, 1) LAs in perchs and on roof tops, 2) Engineers manning long range AV and AI turrets or repairing long range artillery, 3) Medics behind the front lines sustaining the enemy push, 4) HAs nesting with launchers and 5) other snipers.

IMO, part of the issue is that, in this way, the sniper can be an effective counter to every other infantry class, given the right conditions- but it should be provided the sniper is at loss to these other classes outside those conditions, and for the most part it is. Just as IamDH points out, part of the issue is that, in order to function this way effectively, being on the receiving end of good sniper work pretty much means that (unless you too were a sniper) there was little to nothing you could do to fight back. Granted, you (and I) could have moved more and this would make things more difficult for sure, but still we have to accept that anytime you ADS, or even hipfire for any amount of time, you make yourself very vulnerable to good snipers.

...Then we have SMG infiltrators and here too the class is somewhat similar in that in the right conditions you can take people down in such a way that the ability for them to fight back (again, unless they too are infiltrators) is seriously diminished if not nullified. True, you can do this with any class and just "getting the drop" on someone but by the press of a button the infiltrator gets a seriously bonus in this department, often without even having to concern themselves with environment or "positioning" in the traditional sense. The drawbacks, of course, are 1) that they can only engage other infantry and 2) they can only accomplish this in the right conditions and outside of those conditions they have a disadvantage. IMO 100 less health is not much to give up but we do have to remember that it is there.

IMO, part of the grief that non-infiltrators feel towards infiltrators comes from the combination of these two things- that basically, in the right conditions, infiltrators can practically kill with impunity (i.e. you die in a way you feel you had little chance to fight back) and do so against any soft target. However, it is easy to forget that this is largely because the infiltrator is operating within the right conditions. Hanging back and choosing strategic targets is operating in those conditions. SMG'ing a small group or 1v1 by using the cloak and darts is operating in those conditions as is using the chaos of a larger fight and genuinely infiltrating unsuspecting enemies are also operating in those conditions.

I think the idea of having established ranges where certain rifles can reliably OHK a full health target is, in general, a good thing for both snipers and non-snipers. First, I think this helps snipers because it more reliably defines the correct operating conditions and (provided these are not absurd) that removes ambiguity and that is a good thing. Second, I think it helps non-snipers because now you know that the sniper who killed you is more likley to know what they are doing and are being forced to play to a relative specific condition. Personally, I hope that the high powered bolt actions will still OHK non-NW users (like myself) at range. With some hope they will realize that certain rifles (bolt actions) need to have long range OHK ability when compared to the higher ROF rifles. Basically, I would hope they would find a way to allow the right conditions to still result in long distance OHK headshots while perhaps making these right conditions a little harder to acheive- either by needing to run with rifles so specialized that you are boned anywhere else.

One idea is that perhaps they could look into making changes to the cloak based on the primary- use a CQC primary and your cloak is near transparent, use a long range primary and your cloak is a little more visible so there is more of a trade off (i.e. greater vulnerability) that you pay for those headshots rather than not having them at all at certain ranges. Idk, just an idea, but at the very least I am really really glad when SOE announces ideas and proposals to the forum community prior to actually making the changes- so big kudos there; at the very least, snipers should be somewhat grateful that there is even an opportunity to discuss these issues (especially considering how badly SOE handled how the camo changes went down).

TBH IamDH thats assuming that you are the only sniper on the field. As the devs said, this is PlanetSide, in many cases there are 10-15 snipers in one battle, at once. That means if you are any kind of infantry you have to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge 10-15 snipers out side of a base on top of all the other players shooting at you.

I personally think the change is in the right direction but it does need to be tweaked to maybe 200m

This is exactly what i was saying but with some differences.

The player is useless but not the class itself. A good team sniper would prioritize and spot stuff (and everything listed above)

Sniping is not easy and a lot of the targets don't stay still for long. I think shotguns are called easier because its point-blank range and is more frustrating to die from.

Well wouldn't there also be people running with you? I know my scenario was rather unnaccurate but 15 or even 3 snipers aiming at just you is pretty rare

I agree with you on most points except the SMG infiltrator part.
I find that SMG infils can be countered and relies more on the receiving end unlike snipers which can snipe with little drawbacks or any threats. I also find the suggestion of making cloak slightly visible from far a bad thing to do since not everyone snipes from that distance and cloak can already be seen from far (especially if you snipe back)

Well said nevertheless

I want VS infil booty. There i said it

It's not like snipers shoot frontline classes with impunity, there are always competent countersnipers just waiting for other snipers to decloak and it takes only 1 second to lose your head. Camping noobs are my primary food, i flank them and shoot them in the back of their heads and there are many SMG infs who do the same and are even better at the job.

do you advocate nerfs to other things with long range instagib potential like tank shells, phalanx turrets, mana turrets too? Even better, they are largely immune to small arms fire, have rock steady aim and body shots is all that's required so it's even more of a lopsided matchup.
Few days ago i did my thing and got gibbed twice by a mana AV out of the blue. When i found out where the guy was on top of a unclimbable mountain 200m away my 6x scope was not precise enough to do anything productive, i just hit the turret hitbox few times, while fighting sway, all while he sent a stream of OHK-on-bodyshot rockets in my direction with fly by wire capability and rock steady aim. Yup, i felt like a king of the infantry food chain all right.

I was going to disagree, but frankly you make some good points.

+1

Went off on a bit of a tangent don't ya think?

I just remember the days when they could OHK, it sucked. Especially being a defending sniper, where you would have to scan a large map 360 degrees while other snipers already had you in there sights and could take you out with out any chance to gather where the shot came from. Resulting in not being able to tell your teammates where to look.

Now your dead and that same sniper is instagibbing who ever he can you until can get back to scanning the terrain for him.

It also seems to me that many snipers on these forums don't really pair up. Why is that? Two snipers, one spots. You essentially get the same effect with out needing a headshot.

Keep in mind that there's a bit more to it here than you realize.

Many players have rather chaotic frame-rate issues, periodically plummeting at extremely inopportune times. Try to shoot off a perfect headshot when your game suddenly begins to lag and you'll understand, at least in my opinion, why so many snipers don't seem to do very much. Truth be told, I didn't even think of this until just recently despite it being one of my own primary problems.

I don't consider myself a good sniper in Planetside 2, I can't. I run the game off a very cheap Dell laptop on the lowest settings possible and find myself suffering because of it. Sometimes, upon landing in my drop-pod, the game will freeze for about a minute and I'm dead when it's finally unfroze. Other times, people will glitch about...

When I try to snipe, I will often lag and this causes my scope to sway very slowly...often blowing my chance to nail a target that I could have otherwise killed. Initially, I believed these problems were fully my own due to having such a shoddy method of playing the game. So, I've taken up the SMG to simply muck around with until I can get a superior computer.

We know that FPS issues aren't just my problem alone, they just released the first optimization update that has apparently helped significantly for many people and plan more updates to come regarding this endeavor. So, I fully assume that you'll see those snipers that you previously thought were doing absolutely nothing becoming more effective.

With a faster framerate, we can nail those targets.

It's the single most significant reason why I haven't been able to snipe nearly as much as I'd like. Sadly, now my game just crashes completely...so something in the update seems to be bothering my laptop.

Anyway, in regards to the prioritization of high priority targets...this is accurate.

Stationary targets are the single most lucrative mark a sniper can look for. Medics and Engineers are often the individuals who remain stationary the longest for a multitude of reasons. Heavy Assaults go stationary when they're about to use the Rocket Launcher...which makes them a high priority target.

So, even as a lone wolf oriented sniper, the most lucrative of targets are typically high priority. By trying to score as many kills as possible, we simultaneously perform the function of taking out these targets for our faction. All of which can sway the battle in factor of our faction and permit them the break in the enemy assault or defense needed to push in.

• If those HAs are taken out before they can take out our tanks, that's good.
• If those defense turrets are kept down, that's good.

So on and so forth.

All these situations are times where people make themselves lucrative sniper targets by holding still, and all of these situations are done by high priority targets that actually make a large impact in the battle by what they are trying to do.

I lol'd

A)The majority of snipers kills are from stationary targets. I say its easier to land a shot against a stationary target from 150m with a "0" cof with a high velocity in total safety than getting yourself into the fight, avoiding all encounters with any other weapon type (because they auto win those encounters due to super low range ability on the PA), landing a hit on a strafing jumping/crouching target while doing the same yourself.
B)Frustrating to die from is anything that instagibs and does not make a weapon harder or easier to use

So yeah, I don't believe bragging that your play type takes more skill than someone else's is really all that valid.

By all means, upload a video of you performing countless headshots in a row while keeping your time to kill ratio on par with your kill to death ratio as a run and gun oriented player. No montagues of successful kills to present a ruse that your efficency is on par with your run and gun ratio, solid and consistent gameplay of you performing on par, or greater, to your run and gun skill.

Until you do that, I'd recommend stiffing your giggling.

Sniping isn't as easy as you think.

Run and gun oriented gameplay takes superior twitch mechanics while sniping takes a good bit of intelligence and precision.

Well, at the end of the day it is simply just bragging. No harm & no gain from it

I have also mentioned the no-risk thing in my thread

It's a waiting game and requires a great deal of precision.

It's a completely different type of playing style to run and gun oriented combat. Both have their challenges, and neither are easy. I have yet to ever encounter a run and gun oriented player who has tried long ranged sniping and still presented the opinion that it was easy. I fully suspect that if ever there was one...they wouldn't have footage to back up the claim.

Our time to kill ratio has to equate or exceed your kill to death ratio...or we are failing as snipers and not obtaining experience as quickly as you are.

Making a perfect headshot on a stationary target that could move at any second with a short duration breathing mechanic that leaves you feeling drunk when it has run out is not as easy as you might think. You miss that shot, you have failed and potentially given away your location...which costs time, ammunition, and potentially your life if there's a counter sniper nearby to see it.

Our wasted time = your death.

Time to kill (Sniper)
Kill to death (Run and Gun)

I'm not saying its easy, I'm saying that elevating your entire class above others is arrogance. There are ten terribad snipers out there doing nothing for the team for everyone one who does well.