How does everyone feel about the Vanguard Shield now?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DashRendar, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. Takoita

    Same poop as it previously was.

    Just yesterday got a jump on a Vanguard from the rear quarter point-blank (we literally bumped it in the hull with our own tank) with a Vulcan Prowler. Guess what? The bastard killed us with ~25% health left.

    Make it block the weaponry, ffs! Reduced reduction by two seconds did squat.
  2. Govedo13

    You used AP or heat, what guns the vanguard had? Did you directly deployed before shooting?
    I mean that if you did you would had a fair chance. What do you used Nar front armour deploy or FS?
    I am up to cert my prowler after I finished my mag so I ask stupid questions.
  3. Klypto

    Clearly did not use AP rounds.
  4. Frozen-K

    My thoughts on the shield - It does what it's intended to do, and isn't as glaring a problem. Flanking a vanguard doesn't mean they just whip around and kill my prowler, it just means I drive away from the fight damaged.

    That being said, I still don't think nerfing the shield by health and duration was the best call, but it seems to have helped in the sense that a vanguard will still get punished if flanked. And as a side note, if you do flank a vanguard, be sure you push your tank right up into their backside. It will stop them from rotating.
  5. Slandebande

    Thanks for implying us that don't use Anchor at all times are dumb, I guess you know better than us with extensive experience with using it :rolleyes:. Well if you want to be effective and actually achieve something worthwhile, you are usually better off not being on the front lines. I can tell you this much, I have NEVER lost a tank to a Prowler at 500m (or even close to that distance). It is simply so easy to not lose your tank over such distances, that the only people you are killing are usually the very inexperienced ones. Hence, if you want to actually have a noticeable effect on the fight, you have to move in closer (to get to the well protected Sundies, experienced MBT crews, etc). You won't be killing many of those from a distance of 400-500m.

    Also, I'm not the type of guy to sit back and farm behind the safety of my own zerg (not just for the lack of effectiveness which I previously described, but also because it is boring as heck). I prefer to flank the enemies position away from friendlies (and closer than 500m, so experienced people cannot get to cover in time as easily), and actually use my tank as a tank. If you want to sit at a distance of 500m, you are generally better off using a MANA-AV turret in my opinion (but then again, playing as infantry being more effective than a tank for AV-duties is nothing new).

    Note, I'm not saying Anchor is useless, I'm just saying that there are plenty of situations where FS is the more effective choice for the Prowler. The same thing does not hold true for the Vanguard at all.

    So you want to imply that using those stats which are more suitable for comparing infantry weapons amongst each other is perfectly fine for arguing what you are doing?

    It wasn't all a reply to you, but whatever.

    Why? Vanguards still win the head-to-head fights pretty easily. Also, only if they are using Anchor, and 9/10 people using Anchor will not have a clue about how to use it properly. I still gobble up Prowlers easily in my Vanguard, and it requires much less effort than taking down a Vanguard with the other two MBTs (NOT saying it is impossible, but it does require more effort, thankfully the differential has decreased with the latest changes). I would've liked to see the Vanguard get something in return though. If you are whining about Prowlers, have cover nearby, and practice shooting stationary targets ;)

    Also, about the %-armor, it isn't "just" 2%, it is percentage points, meaning the effective HP increases by quite a bit more than the listed %-number. But I guess implying it your way helps your cause more than accurately describing it :rolleyes:

    Turn around and cover/repair? Are you showing your rear to the Prowlers when you go towards cover instead of backing up or something? If you are losing your tank at long ranges, you have done something wrong, try to plan ahead, don't turn your rear towards your enemies when you are running (planning ahead helps here), and generally try to predict possible locations for enemy Prowlers. Prowlers are seriously my favorite food in my Vanguard, they are simply so easy to take out.

    The Vulcan is also intended to destroy vehicles, but it only works as a glorified lance, which makes it practically unusable.

    About the 2%, see my comment in my reply to you above.

    Front to front, the Prowler will lose such a fight pretty badly. But if the fight happens with maneuvering etc, it might have a chance if the Vanguard panics or is caught off-guard.
  6. Epic High Five

    That list I linked is a giant list of conparisons of tank cannons. I seriously have no clue what the hell you're talking about
  7. Slandebande

    You were using KPU (amongst others) to illustrate the performance of the Vanguard. Using those parameters does not show much about the tank performance as a whole. THAT is my point.

    Is that to me? I have no clue what you are talking about either in this quote for instance:
    Just sitting down and spouting incorrect facts I guess? Unless you convieniantly "forgot" to say it was to the rear of the Vanguard, and that the Vanguard would have to be pretty terrible to lose to a 1/2 Prowler.
  8. Calisai

    HA... Maybe with a prowler or lightning. They'll scoot right under a full chassis upgraded Mag. I've tried blocking the Vannies that like to pop out from beneath Bio Labs, gotten right in behind them and then just slide right under me as if I wasn't there. I can stop Sundies this way, but Vannies have about a 75% chance of ducking under me. Prowlers are less often and usually front only... while in reverse they can be blocked a bit better.

    I do love blocking in a Sundy and keeping it locked in place though... it's an effective tactic if they don't have gunners or if they are on burning (as is Mag ramming a Sundy for the kill... Hilarious).
  9. Noppa

    I dont use Vanguard anymore... Harasser --> MBT :)
  10. Epic High Five


    Well okay allow me to bow out of an insistence on using data to compare the performance of things then, relying instead on the juggernaut of a philosophical engine that has guided us out of the darkness to where we are today: hastily formed opinion.

    "KPU isn't perfect, here's a better option" isn't really a controversial thing to say, the problem is that everybody INSTEAD says, "KPU isn't perfect" but then follows it up with stony silence or "you should just agree with whatever I say", then get all indignant when people respond with, "oh well you've got nothing so KPU it is." If you wanna trash the data, you best come packing some heat of your own.

    Another good example:

    Funny thing is, Prowlers kill more Vanguards than Magriders AND are far more likely to be 1/2 than 2/2. That means the scenario you're trying to dismiss is actually the most common one anybody will run into


    Nothing I said was based on opinion at all. You can literally log in, pull a Prowler, and do this very thing. It's a mathematical certainty that an AP Prowler if locked down will blow right through the shield and kill the Vanguard outright before it is killed itself, FROM THE FRONT, and if you don't believe me you are literally only seconds away from testing it out for yourself

    Try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised! Before the twin shield nerfs the Vanguard could come out on top depending on who got the first shots in. Now there's ~4 seconds between when the Vanguard would die and when the Prowler would die, meaning that while the Vanguard has to be perfectly accurate to stand a chance, the Prowler can miss 4 shots and still win.

    I mean, at least try these things out before you denounce them as impossible.


    You're a crazy person. Vanguard is still great.

    Harassers are pulled only when a TR/VS buddy is having an NC night and wants to feel first hand what can only be termed "Canister Despair" or "Phantom AI Syndrome"
  11. Qaz

  12. Epic High Five


    Assuming two gunners is an awfully big assumption when Prowlers are being factored in.

    Realistically the most common scenario is going to be AP/Enforcer coming up against a 1/2 HEAT Prowler, and that outcome is pretty easy to predict, with or without the Vanguard shield. But if we're including gunners a lot more questions pop up, like why Halberd? If it's a theoretical perfect world 1v1 why not assume it's close range and the Prowler is using a Vulcan? Or why not refuse to factor the shield in because it's only a couple seconds of protection every 45 seconds, meaning you're without it for the vast majority of the time?

    Anyway, the Prowler outputs 25% more damage than the Vanguard mag v mag, and even more when their quicker reload is factored in. The AP reload speed is 1.25 seconds per 2500 damage, compared to 3.5 seconds per 2075 damage, it really doesn't get much more stark than that. Even in your scenario it's the slimmest of margins, and as it plays out in-game the Prowler still wins over the Vanguard more often than vice versa, despite the Vanguard having better accuracy on the whole AND being gunned more often.

    The cries of OP are hilarious to me. Nerf X, and let X = whatever just killed me, indeed. I try to come here for conversations despite being warned that the tanker community was every bit as myopic and awful as the Infiltrator and Liberator community but oh geez, come on guys, stop rallying behind people who are literally just handwaving away everything they find inconvenient like DATA just so their precious worldview isn't affected.

    "The Vanguard is the most OP tank because I said so, QED. Now I wonder why the devs seem to avoid this forum like the plague?"
  13. Qaz

    You can use the ap-vulcan combination too. With that, the prowler would kill a vanguard in 7.975 seconds without the spin-up for the vulcan being factored in. Based on that, the conclusion remains that the vanguard with shield retains the advantage in any theoretical slug-fest*. As mentioned in the post I linked, the prowler is always going to win if it catches a vanguard off-guard while being locked down though.**

    * If you're factoring out the abilities (because anchor vs non-shield is BS on a theoretical level), the Prowler has the advantage, but TTKs are so close that whoever fires first and doesn't miss will win.
    **I'm not intending any of this as statement re balance. Just correctign the math and theoretical TTKs here.
  14. MongooseTwoFive

    Meh, my stance is pretty much the same. It's not OP, wasn't OP, just frustrating if you're stuck in close quarters or without cover. It's kind of like the paladin bubble of planetside. The nerf makes it a little bit toned down, but doesn't really address the core flaw with giving a vehicle pseudo-immortality for a few seconds in a game where TTK is pretty low.

    Most vanguard drivers I see are also pretty bad about using it. I'll make sure I'm right next to cover before engaging a vanguard if possible (based on situation) and many times they immediately pop the shield. Roll into cover, count 6 seconds, then pop back out again.

    Smart vanguard drivers are the ones who outmaneuver you or sneak up on you, such that you have no place to run, so you're dead, or if you try to fight they pop the shield, and you're dead. The shield nerf didn't do much to harm them in that scenario. But I feel if a vanguard jumped me in my magrider in the open, I'd be dead whether or not they had the shield assuming they don't have stormtrooper accuracy.
  15. lNeBl

    Does this mean that if you engaged an enemy while your NAR was repairing and popped your shield before he shot at you, you would be auto-repairing in the middle of the fight?

    Lolz.
  16. Taemien

    Dedgaem says he can "delete" a Vanguard with his prowler. What's your problem?

    Which one of you is right? He's saying its a non-issue, you're saying its still strong.
  17. BengalTiger

    Yes.
    Autorepair does not get shut off by damage the shield blocks.

    In fact I've never really thought about doing it that way - falling back early, waiting for repair to trigger and then getting back into the fight, shielding up and enjoying the repair working continuously if the enemy doesn't break the shield.
  18. Frozen-K


    Yes, the tactic is more effective for any tracked/wheeled vehicle.
  19. Noppa


    Vanguard days has been long gone in this game, time and time again NC pulls VG zergs and one after another they die every time, who the hell would wanna drive that slow thing and before any of u say anything that VG isnt slow, YES IT IS cos it is impossible to use Racer on it cos of the handling and yes i know the gear pop thing and use it all the time.

    Harasser is way more fun and way more deadly in right hands now again, have had a lot of fun with it after the buff once again.

    Even on TR side Harasser is fun when u have Vulcan on the roof and kill VG:s... so freeking fun, a bit risky, but never the less still fun :)
  20. lothbrook

    Some people still really hate it, magrider drivers cursing because they pulled in close and did their little magburn spin to get a shot on my rear and still lost, lol. Its like they have no intention of learning how to fight a VG and continue to do the thing that never works over and over.