How do you deal with heavies?

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by tornflags, Jul 14, 2015.

  1. tornflags

    At the risk of starting a ****post, honestly, how do you guys handle heavies? In this game there is a class which has TWICE hp than you (and the majority of playerbase chooses it). It surely had happened to you at some point: you close in on a guy and attack him with an SMG, he presses F, turns around and kills you. I don't mind dying in this game, but I'm very frustrated by the very idea of an instant overshield. So how do you handle the rage when you encounter them? Also, should I simply git gud, or should I throw my NS7 PDW in the sea?
  2. AlterEgo

    As Infiltrator: Snipe, or use SMG while not shielded.
    As LA: Get on roof, and surprise attack.
    As Engineer: Use AM Rifle (Anti-MAX, which is pretty good).
    As Medic: Do not engage, maybe shoot if far away or head-on with a shotgun.
    As Heavy: Even fight, head-on. This is about the skill.
    As MAX: Pray there is no RL involved and fire away.
  3. Catalyist

    Well, there is no perfect solution, but there are quite a few options. This is just off the top of my head, probably missed some:
    1. Don't engage the Heavy at all.
    2. Don't engage and until the Heavy is preoccupied with something else (perfect when he has the RL out), then attack
    3. Get really close and force them into a hipfire battle and aim for the head.
    5. Don't engage the Heavy if aren't in your SMG's optimal damage range. Chances of winning decrease rapidly in a straight-up 1v1 the further you are apart.
    6. Throw an EMP grenade, then attack.
    7. Lure the Heavy into a trap, drop mine. If the mine doesn't kill him, finish him off with your SMG.
    8. If the Heavy is chasing you, run off to friendlies and have them deal with him.
    The biggest advantage you have over Heavies however is that you have superior intel about his position, compared to what he knows about yours. Use motion spotters and darts frequently and aggressively. All options above work just so much better if you have a motion spotter down that covers the whole building and the area beyond.
    Regarding #1: Realizing that you don't have to engage anything or anyone all the time will greatly increase your survivability and overall effectiveness as an infiltrator. Less downtime for you means more recon for you and your allies and instead of looking at the redeploy map, you can focus on taking out primary targets like Medics, Engineers, turrets etc.
    • Up x 1
  4. IronMouse

    While I play my HA, Infiltrators usually shoot at me. :eek:

    That's their tactics of choosing, however crazy that might sound. It's obviously crazy enough to work!

    It's easy to kill the HA. Aim for the head, SMG's have low TTK. If you're stalking, obviously don't open while they have their shield on, wait for the right moment. Seriously, it's easy. I main LA, so I'm not a HA fanboy who defends them.

    If you aim at the head, HAs won't have the time to react. Literally. And if you fail to do it, and they fight back - LMGs are terrible in CQC. Strafe around them frantically while keeping your aim on them and they should be done for.

    Report back on how you improved. ;)
    • Up x 1
  5. CuteBeaver

    Simple truth for SMG is headshots against Heavies or else your probably going to loose. The trouble is when you run into a really good HA who also goes primarily for headshots. Good Heavies do this because its the only way they can win against other really good heavies. It comes down to their ability to snap aim and their accuracy. That makes it so much worse for us because your dealing with (in many cases) someone who knows exactly how to counter your ambush by sheer DPS output alone. The good ones will literally just spin around and end you.

    Your best solution is to focus on the situation before the ambush (or general shooting) begins. How can you get the jump on the enemy and make the most of your bullets?

    (Possibly Run) Mines.
    Quick knife.

    Can you get the Heavies attention away from you?

    Ex: Drop a spotter wait for them to take it out, and once his backs turned then shoot. Dropping behind cover while doing this and jump out again. By poping in and out from behind cover you have lag compensation on your side. Just remember to make the most of your echo and don't stand still. This makes it hard for him to return fire. Another option for quick knife could possibly include just running wildly with a knife if hes ADS'd. Its really hard to track a sprinting player who is orbiting around you.

    Can you Juke the HA? Or mentally mess with him so he thinks your attack is over, but you come back and shoot him once he drops the shield?

    Can you divert his focus on other more obvious alies and use cover to block some of the inevitable returning fire?

    Can you flash cloak often so he comes to investigate and runs over a mine?

    Personally I loved the NS7-PDW, It was my favorite SMG before I switched to stalker infil. Once stalker was released I went full time crossbow, mines and EMP. Many of my tactics for stalker came from my time spent with the NS7-PDW. This is why I feel more comfortable playing stalker with very high mobility. You will see that in any of my footage, Ill just snap and go full out SMG mode on them even though I have a tiny little crossbow. Whats great about SMG is you learn to embrace even the smallest of advantages against your enemies.

    This helps a ton with stalkers too because to many of us wait for a "perfect" ambush, and just like anything in life that rarely ever happens. Learning to set up an ambush quickly and know when you have the upper hand are great skills to develop.

    I used to love pairing my NS7-PDW with Bando and 4 EMPs. It has such wonderful accuracy, even silenced the velocity didn't bother me. (MKV didn't exist back then) I used to run with with the COMMY and alternate between the two weapons to compensate for any lost stopping power up close with the knife. (Crossbow also didn't exist back then.) As with any SMG medkits were an off and on love affair. They are just so useful for taking extra damage and escaping i would probably recommend using them. It pains me to say that because I personally ended up favoring mines, and did eventually switch to mines (when regeneration implant came out) . Honestly that choice really comes down to play style and how often you set traps with an SMG.

    A final tip, don't be afraid to pre-fire doors (or EMP) based on the information your mini map is telling you.
    • Up x 5
  6. AlterEgo

    Whenever I pull the Infiltrator as soon as I feel I've gotten enough kills with the Polaris or SV on my Heavy Assault, I use the Siriusly Sirius Sirius (Triple mind-f**k). What I've noticed is that if I get behind any HAs from behind, they'll be too late to press F 8-9/10 times. The Sirius has pretty good TTK, and 1st-generation SMGs are even better. But that's just from an average Infiltrator. I also carry the Cerberus when I have to make those L33T headshots. Even the Manticore is good for that, especially when it has higher fire rate and such. Overall, playing Infiltrator versus Heavy is all good; you just have to deal enough damage so that even pulling up the shield can't save you.
  7. breeje

    there are many ways to kill HA my favorite is shoot some bullets at him and run behind a corner place a mine and wait for him
    as he comes around the corner boom, if the mine did not kill him it's really easy to finish them
    one other tactic i like to use is sitting cloaked with the HA running up to me ( he dos not know i am there)
    i uncloak and smg him head on
    let your imagination run free and don't be afraid because its a HA, be a sneaky basted and fight them on your terms or run away
    • Up x 1
  8. Peasnriz

    Form a pressure group, post on forums and imaginative slogans e.g. 'I win shield OP' or something like that.
    • Up x 3
  9. Akashar

    Hey this is the solution most people chose, so, it must be the best! :eek:
    Seriously, if you constantly lose against HA, it's a L2P problem, and there are lots of very good solutions above. The game is pretty balanced but infiltrator has a steeper learning curve than HA, so fighting an average HA with a starting infiltrator will get you a lot of tears. Learn to play and to read carefully every situation, and you're good. Infiltrators are not supposed to take on HA in 1v1 and win by dps, in any world.
  10. Iridar51

    I was gonna say "git gud" be going for headshots. It is the main strength of NS7, which keeps its optimal 4 headshot kill range up to 20m with SPA and no suppressor. Focusing for headshots works with any other SMG as well, and it is the main mechanism of killing heavies at close range - for me. But I main LA.

    CuteBeaver is the real infiltrator here, and she's outlined so many more ways for you to "git gud" than just learning to shoot for the head. Goes to show how much more thought you infiltrators have to put in your play than we lumberjacks. Just shooting accurately alone can get you far. But smart stuff - this is where the real game begins.
  11. Daveofthedead

    Typically I don't deal with them unless there's just one or two. My trick is to pump a round or two from the blackhand into their back and lead the wounded into a waiting prox mine. Or if you can sneak up behind one 3 quick swipes with the knife will bring them down or one or two swipes to the head I believe. Never take them on without a plan of attack and preferably one at a time.
  12. AnuErebus

    First off I avoid direct confrontations with heavies. That's a recipe for disaster unless you're a Heavy, MAX or dealing with a bad player. As infil though you thankfully have access to radar, specifically motion spotters which allow you to see where your opponent is and where they're going. Use the terrain and that information to ambush them. If you know they're a particularly good heavy or aren't sure in your abilities soften them up first. EMPs are amazing for this since you completely nullify any advantage they have. A quick hit and run with bullets to strip their shields before they can react, disappearing and then returning moments later to finish the job is also possible with decent weapons.

    I also consider weapon choice very carefully. Unless you're EMPing everything that moves low damage or notoriously innacurate weapons should never be used to face strong classes or players. NS-7, MKV and the Failstorm especially are weapons which I would never want to use in a shootout with a heavy regardless of whether or not I ambushed them. They just do not pack enough punch at any range to make them viable. Semi-auto snipers as well with their accuracy problems at higher fire rates are just not worth the frustration. Cyclone, Armsitice, Sirius, Blitz and Eridani are the only SMGs I consider usable against heavies. The Cyclone and Armistice especially should lead to a dead heavy if you ambush them. The other three will work in most situations, but a good heavy might still be able to turn on you. Go for headshots. With scout rifles keep a bit of distance, don't get too close while playing cat and mouse and you can do alright. Go for headshots. For bolt-actions try and trick them into dropping their shields so you can pull off a quick headshot, otherwise you're best off running away.
  13. bjack

    Noob question: Which defenses do headshots penetrate/ignore?
  14. Booface

    If you catch them by surprise, headshots should go through their shield.

    If you are in a more hectic situation, consider trying out EMPs with a grenade bandolier. It has a decent radius, goes through cover, and strips both their shields and their heavy shield (since a couple patches ago). Good way to put yourself on even footing again, even if you're using a pistol.

    If you take EMP Shield as your implant, you can even throw EMP grenades at your own feet to catch anybody in close quarters. Since it goes through cover, you can toss it without exposing yourself to any direct line of sight and have your gun back out before the shooting starts.
  15. SW0V

    Heavies are the front-line infantry of this game. By definition, if you go head-to-head with any other class you should lose. It's not how I would have balanced the game, but it is what it is. This would be similar to asking "How do you deal with an AP MBT as a HE MBT or a Skyguard Lightning"... the answer is, you don't that's not your role.

    In case you were wondering:

    Infiltrator: Area denial/Suppression
    Combat medic: Keeping your team alive and healthy
    Engineer: Helping MAX's and keeping everyone fed
    Light assault: Flank positions that you want heavies to advance to stay away from normal combat flow corridores
  16. Plastikfrosch

    1. infiltrator cqc: emp-nade the HA and then get him down.
    2. medic: start selfhealing and one of the cqc AR (800-845rpm) is always a good idea --> HAs dont have weapons with such a fast ttk (shotguns excluded).
    3. engy: stickys / use your turret as cover when possible / cqc carbines (the same as the thing with the ARs) / shoot him, run around corner and drop a mine (also good for infils) / longrange carbines and cover (acx11/cougar/pulsar c/ ns11c with HVA)
    4. LA engage from above when possible. most people look around but not up and when they do its to late / also, c4 delivery
  17. Iridar51

    Only nanoweave armor.
  18. tornflags

    Seriously? I always thought they penetrate adrenaline / NMG shield but not resist. That sounds fun..
  19. Iridar51

    All HA shields work against headshots. It's common knowledge. There used to be a bug/feature of bolt action rifles penetrating resist shield, but it's been fixed long time ago.
  20. CuteBeaver

    Last I checked everyone had a purpose and I hate this argument being used since all of our classes are on the same front line together. PS2 wasn't always mostly all heavies... but that was such a long time ago that hardly anyone remembers what it was like.

    Infiltrators are a flanking and support class. No deep hacking meta exists within the game at this present time. (I remain hopeful) All we have is radar, cloak and our own creativity. While it might not be my intended role, I'll gladly keep killing these "superior" frontline soldiers as long as they don't watch their six... The way I see it infiltrators are by design meant to encourage squad play and teamwork within the game because its all too easy for us to pick off people not paying attention. Its much harder for a lone infiltrator to take on an entire group of enemies. If you really think about this, being frail as a stealth class is actually excellent design. A stealth class should be encouraged to play in a discreet manner, otherwise whats the point. I think it has nothing to do with HAs and more a design choice by the developers for our intended purpose. I personally love the challenge that comes along with the class and it plays very differently then both a HA and LA.

    I really would like to see Heavies get more options besides just killing and be able to give back to those around them. Example deploy-able cover, or some type of option for them besides just having more rocket launchers. If they really are meant to be on the front line, at least give them the tool to reinforce those boundaries. As it stands now the engineer provides front line cover, and the medic maintains the initiative... Theres no one class responsible for the failure or success of a front line.
    • Up x 3