How do people feel about ADADA and bullet travel

Agreed with killing ADAD spam. All they would to do is add momentum to strafe movements. Much like how spamming jump slows you down, rapid change is strafe direction should also slow you down.

I haven't liked ADDDADADAADADA ever since I saw the first sniper do it on the sniper deck on a 2fort5 map in 1997.

Way too easy to jump around like a bunny.
Changes WANTED:
COF and COF bloom should be reduced
bullet velocities increased
add stamina that depletes while running

bonus for standing still while aiming is useless now, because of snipers.

The problem is that people are usually dead by the first ADA (or left-right-left). Unless they put momentum on every strafing turn, it won't work.

Also forget about fast peeking through doorways safely.

Tbh I don't care at all for ADAD being there, it took me a little while to adjust to it, and I've played games where it was much more prominent, so I'm perfectly fine with it being in the game.

Also - realism is not applicable here, you can take several bullets to your head and torso and continue running like nothing happened. With realistic movement you should be crippled. All in all, no offence but this whole issue smells of "stop moving when I shoot you, waaaah waaaaaah". It really doesn't take much skill to adjust aim, especially with clientside hit reg.

They do that already...

I meant even higher. It would completely wreck hip firing though.

I found that it became unreasonably hard to aim at people ADADing only when my frame rate was dipping near or below 30+. At any other time, the movement was too smooth for me to ruin my aim.

I like the system as it is, and think realism is always a bad argument when talking about a game, unless that game is specifically designed as a simulation.
A pure hitscan game would be much more oriented towards positioning, as CS always was, while PS2 is a lot more about movement, though not to the point of a Tribes type of game. It works quite well in my opinion.

On a sidenote, it's fun to see CS brought up as a "shallower" shooter in 2014. I was already hearing that back in 1999 at the time of beta 5.2, mostly by Quake3 fans. Brings me back!

Are there any posters here who play with 60 or 120 fps as mainly infantry? I'm feeling like there's something incredibly wonky about strafing, as I keep losing fights against players that don't actually dodge, but merely wiggle in place. They're not even moving enough for their head to leave my crosshair, yet it feels like my shots aren't landing, yet they can land +50% headshots every fight.

Don't call it ADwhatever, it's called dodging, it looks like this in Quake 3 vanilla / Live

Hmmm, even the VS guys are behind this, and no mention of VS or Orion/SVA-88 in particular....... Interseting....

I remember this having changed with the nerf to the ZOE MAX, what happened with it?
Infantry behaves like they don't have any inertia at all, are they particles or waves?

Guys! Guys! how about you learn what these things offer?

ADAD spam does improve the game. Rather than shooting static enemies (everyone standing still the moment you face eachother) you can shoot moving targets who try to dodge your attacks.
Furthermore, the ADAD vs standing still accuracy is already different. There are countless battles where I won because I stopped and started shooting while standing still. Countless other battles I won because I strafed around.
This shows, people might be using ADAD spam where they could much better have stood still to kill their enemy. The game has a very nice balance where both standing still or ADAD can be advantageous. Learn when to use which! Since most enemies rely on ADAD spam you can get the advantage by knowing when you can win by standing still.

As for bullet travel and cone-of-fire. How about learning trigger discipline? Good trigger discipline goes a long way, allowing you to win longer-range engagements by being more selective when you shoot. Fire in short bursts, allow the reticule to go down a little (even in ADS your COF increases, but you can't see this!).
Bullet travel is an incredibly important part of a good, skill based game. Leading a target and getting a hit shows you know the bullets travel time and can judge the distance to the enemy target. Saying "well, but they can instantly go into another direction!" isn't exactly a good argument. Yes, they can instantly go in another direction, does this mean you can reliably dodge a stream of bullets? Or even a single bullet? No, absolutely not.
Do this: Get a friend with a sniper rifle, and go stand at range and start strafing. (if he's a bad shot, stand still and wait until he fires)
Your friend now starts taking shots at you, and you are going to try and dodge his shot by strafing...
You'll find you can't dodge the shots, despite the travel time. This is for two reasons: you don't know exactly when your enemy is going to shoot, and most people aren't busy with thinking "If I head here right now I can dodge the most bullets", they focus on "I'm gonna blow his face off faster than he blows mine, in the meanwhile I'll do some strafing to try and dodge something along the way".
Another point is that there is the latency issue. If you see a bullet that you dodge on your screen, then the enemy can still hit you because on his screen you are somewhere else. And the game works with "if you hit someone on your screen, you hit, regardless of where the enemy actually is". This prevents frustrating events where you fire 100 bullets into someone while he actually is a tiny bit farther away, so all your "hits" become misses.

Are you kidding me?
I have ADAD not firing, while a guy stood still and tried to kill me, when he ran out ammo, I ran over knifed him.
That is broken, lol.

I dodged 6 shotgun shells from a guy last night, then killed the poor guy..
He was BR 11, he ragequit, I felt bad, even told the /yell chat I felt bad.

LOL... My answer to encountering the straffing experts it pull a MAX

A bit like that classic Indiana Jones scene where the guy with the sword confronts Jones with an impressive display and Jones shoots him...

Seriously, I wish I could straffe but I'm awful at it and so lose most 1v1 fights.

I thought that's how you deal with the shotgun cheese assaults.

Basically what PS2 needs is an equivalent to blue place specials?

And skiing down the hills of Amerish.

Hue.

This is why I cannot respect VS players and their ridiculous counter-arguments of why weapons like the Orion are not OP.

I've always been adamant about the bad state of infantry combat in this game. Bullet travel time is low as hell, every player is an Olympic Sprinter and players can smash C or ADAD to glitch out of getting shot.

When you face an Orion user, he doesn't win because he aimed... he wins because you missed. But how can you not miss, when your bullets obey a bad caricature of projectile physics and he is moonwalking all over the God damn place?

In CoD (MW3 and before at least), infantry combat was solid. Good players with good k/d had high accuracy because their bullets went where they aimed. Engagements were not complete coinflips and moving about (walking and sprinting) was a means to get into position, NOT a means to affect gunfights!!!!!

In a perfect world where everyone's latency was optimal, ADAD spamming, as it exists now, wouldn't be an issue.

The problem is that several players know how to use it, and the game's current mechanics, to generate very erratic movement on their opponent's screen; giving them a massive advantage. Worse, more than a handful of players use macros to do this automatically (30-60hz crouching while strafing and firing).
Realism arguments are one thing, but people need to remember we're playing a game where one faction shoots plasma balls and laser beams. The real problem with ADAD spamming is that the game's engine can't handle it gracefully/fairly. High ROF weapons can mitigate the advantage these exploits grant, but they're far from fool-proof and only applicable for a subset of the available weapons.

I used to think that implementing a cumulative movement penalty on strafing was the answer, but -- as noted by others in this thread -- players that take advantage of this are typically killing before they finish their second or third ADAD iteration. Better solutions may be to (a) lower all of the ADS speed modifiers to 0.5 (or lower?) or (b) have an aiming penalty that could mitigate the advantage rapid direction changes provide. Maybe something along the lines of a "stability" penalty for a second following sudden direction which would increase your COF to that of the sprinting size.

How's your aim against running targets? It must be awful if you can't hit somebody ADADing in the speeds they do in this game.

SOE please stealth nerf Orion's speed to 0.5. I'm pretty sure nobody will notice a thing and the usual suspects will whine instead of trying to improve.

Latency is not much of an issue regarding missed shots in this game, since your hits and misses are handled client side and then negotiated with the server (which is why you get so many simultaneous deaths). It plays a much bigger role if you can keep a relatively high frame rate, than if your connection is extremely good.

In reality what happens is that people's frame rate dips when confronted with somebody that moves erratically, especially the closer he is to them. The end result is a choppy enemy movement, that makes hitting them an exercise in frustration.

Certainly if there was a skill-intensive thing like blue plate specials that regularly happened in infantry combat, that would make PS2's infantry play more interesting. Realistically there are too many weapons that work with fairly rapid bullet speeds to add that to the game currently.

They could do other things though, like crisper strafing, which would allow other types of player skill to be valuable during typical fights. They could also balance MAXes and enlarge some indoor spaces, so there's actually more area where infantry have a chance to be valuable in the first place. There are a lot of ways to increase the amount of (and types of) skill which are rewarded that still fit within the game's current design.