I guess there are similar topics already but most are just hate/like and not precise. I don't have any experience boosts active since alpha squad boost ended nor I have ever been a member. I have only bought 3 packages of implants with certs (600 certs) and the implants I got from them are maybe 2% of what I have got for now. Most of them just come by from doing ordinary stuff what I would do anyway. So I have been using Enhanced Sensors (whatever is called, the one that shows healthbars) full time since implants got introduced. I have been easily able to upkeep that with drop chargers and MUCH more. I currently have 1000 energy, 50x600 chargers, 1x1000 charger that I made for test and 2x 10000 chargers that I made from implants (not bought) and 3 tier implants that are kind of useless and could make 3x10000 more if I wanted to. All of these have been came from averaging 3h playing per day for 15-20k SPH.
their are not P2W but they come dam close imo! I don't use them and I'm glad I don't. I don't feel any impulse to use them yet.
I will answer your question. Running Level 3 Implants require the most Energy to run. Energy can be currently acquired through either: 1) $$ 2) through performance while playing. Currently, many players are finding their play performance is inadequate to sustain using a Tier 3 Implant 100% of the time. So right now Implants are a system that gives a performance edge (in the form of being able to use Tier 3 Implants 100% of the time) to players who either: 1) excel at performance to such a level, that they are able to achieve Charge drops at a rate beyond many other players 2) pay Do you want a player who pays to get a performance edge that many other players cannot get no matter how much time they spend? I don't. Do you want a player who performs better (or farms better) in the game to get a special performance edge (so now they can perform even better) that other players do not get unless they buy it? I don't. Boo to special performance advantage bonuses only for (1) players who are already performing better or to (2) players who will pay for them. Better Solution: All players should get Charge at same rate. BUT, players can spend $$ or perform better to acquire Implants faster than other players. (or without having to grind or grind as much the RNG crafting)
Looking at their Implant model from a Game Design perspective and fixing it for them. 1) change Energy so that all players receive energy at the same rate while playing. Maybe make it so that players must earn XP at a very small rate so players don't just log on and AFK to charge. Set an energy Cap that is high, but not unlimited. (max Cap being they could play x hours at max Implant before running dry) 2) change Impants to copy Hearthstone's TCG model: a. players can get a random Implant during play as they get XP. The have a common chance to get Level 1, Uncommon to get Level 2, and Rare to get Level 3 b. players can purchase packs of Implants in the store c. players can use unwanted Implants to craft Implants they want. Players CHOOSE the Implant they want and then sacrifice a specific number of the right Impants to get it. Set the ratio as 1:x (where 1 is the desired Implant, and x is the Implants sacrificed). Maybe 1:5 to get an Implant on the same rarity, and 1:10 to get an Implant one rarity up. d. SOE release a LOT more Implants, so that getting them all is not trivial like it is now, and players have a reason to try to farm for them e. SOE allows players to use more Implants at the same time or can stack multiples of the same Implant (at a decreasing bonus), so that players are incentivized to collect or buy implants, especially to cover their different class/vehicle preferences. f. adjust energy so that players can use level 1 Impants in all Implant slots and STILL stockpile energy at a slow rate. Players can use Level 2 Implants in all slots and stay level in their energy. Players can use Level 3 Implants in all their implant slots and they will slowly lose energy. Players can use NO Implants and it will gain Energy faster. Players can mix and match Implant Levels to get Energy drain rates in between. This system removes pay or elite player performance advantage. But it sets up a deep and versatile Implant options system. And it's set around a F2P TCG model, such that players can earn RNG Implants, craft out what Implants they want, or buy Implants in RNG packs. This system fits the current grind or pay to get resources model. This system makes it so that players who invest the time are not at a play disadvantage. This system makes it so that players can pay more to reduce their time to acquire Implants.
3) don't run tier 3 implants 24/7. I've got 80k energy banked and even I don't feel the need to run implants on all my loadouts. Most get battle hardened if they'll see combat, but ones for like engineer or infil get regen sometimes but generally nothing Also we don't know yet what reliably procs chances of getting an implant. It isn't entirely luck because I've been getting a lot and you should just see what luck-based drops get me in games like Diablo 3 (hint: not a whole lot). Best theory so far is that it's based on exp events, though who knows? Having a great SPM doesn't seem to guarantee anything
This is approximately my stats, too. Just like you, I mostly use Enhanced Targeting (IMO the most useful of them all, and its effect is always visible). I don't have any useful Tier 3 implants yet (just Range Finder & Sensor Shield), or neither Tier 2 (I have EOD II and Hold Breath II, and also this useless Marker), so my energy consumption is low. I don't have as much energy as you overall, but I have enough. So, no, it does not feel like P2W. At all. Besides, even if I paid for implant packs, it would be a very wasteful transaction. The amount of implants I get for SC in 5-pack is the same I am going to earn during an hour or two. Spending certs or SC is not effecient at all, prices are high. I wonder if they've had any implant related SC transactions at all.
The OP's question was "How can anyone say implants are P2W?" Their Question was not "How can I most effectively use Implants if I don't pay?" The point is that players can only PAY to get Level 3 Implant 24/7. That is the definition of a P2W scenario: being able to pay for an in-game performance advantage. And the P2W concern is not over the Impants themselves (all players can grind them to attain them). The concern is over the ability to get and maintain Energy. (and thus empowering access to greater abilities, for longer periods via pay).
I disagree with the fundamental premise that T3 implants provide anything like that huge of an advantage, and where they do (Clear Vision) they are so obviously suited for a very specific situation that running it 24/7 would be crazy. I run T2 implants because the only T3 one I've been able to get so far are lame infil ones like Hold Breath III that immediately get recycled. They're still quite effective. In the end, the "win" that people would be buying would be the ability to get an additional 2% healing per second from hour 5-6 of playtime where a free player would have run out of energy. That's....pretty marginal. So far the only implant I've found that's worth running 24/7 is Battle Hardened and that's a full time implant if you can get a single charger every 900 seconds of alive time. I've not run into a single person who hasn't been able to manage this rate. The way implants are set up right now, to my mind, is actually extremely favorable to the F2P player. Like, so favorable that I don't think it's intentional, and if it is SOE is being exceptionally generous.
They provide an advantage. Prior to Implants, only Squads provided much of an advantage the average player couldn't get. This introduces a new slot that is most effective when payed for. And you don't think they will make MORE Implants? More poweful Implants at Level 3? Magic introduced "Mythic" rarity (cards with unprecedented scarcity) with the statement that "Mythic will be epic themed cards and not tournament staples"... then time passed... and now tournament decks run ton of Mythic cards. Notice how the better Camos are now tied to Membership or Player Rewards? Once the system is in place, companies can't resist pushing the "make more money" button and skewing better content to the areas that generate cash. P2W is a slippery slope. "Exceptionally generous"? Because they introduced the first item type in the game that can be paid to maintain a better version? Compromising their fully non-cosmetic F2P game that had been in effect til then? I do not consider that generous or good at all. I get it, you like it. More power to you. But I don't like it, and it is an element of P2W.
the only implant i am using is the default one, enhanced targeting. it is really useful in loads of situations, whereas most of the other implants are highly situational, making energy go to waste.
As you can see in this thread, it's the members/XP boost users who tell us that implants are fine. You get more implants/chargers = energy if your SPM is high, you can raise your SPM by spending money. That is the whole thing about Pay to Win I think. If you have a playstyle that features low SPM, for example, protecting sunderers or Anti Air, you will get in trouble to find enough chargers.
PTW concept: The definition of pay to win is when one player pays to have advantage over the non-paying player. SOE Lies: SOE lied about implants claiming that FTP player would be able to sustain T3 implant only by drops. SOE also lied about giving the people that does not want to use implants default bonus to compensate, the default bonus happened to be implant that uses energy. Average SPM: Energy is based on SPM. Average non-boosted, non-member SPM is around 140-180. 140-180 SPM allows you to run T3 implant around 15 min of each playing hour based on drops. Membership/Boost SPM: If you have membership you get this doubled so you run T3 30 min from one hour based on drops, if you on top of the membership you buy boost you can run 24/7 with implants. So yes the implants are pure PTW. This make me really sorry for paying any money to SOE and motivates me not to buy more SC. The average players does not have 3 KDR and 366 SPM as the OP unless he uses boosts/membership. You can easily check the statistics about the average KDR and SPM. Implants are useful only for paying players and for the tiny small amount of elite players. Solution: If they wanted to compensate they would make the default implant not to take energy so the other Implants could count as sidegrades as promised.
I guess they call it that because you pay, and then you win. An average non boosted non member player cant sustain implants unless he puts $$ into it.
My issue with 'em is the constantly ticking clock. I hate timed missions in games, I hate short-term timers, I hate anything that makes me stressed. I want to play calmly and just have fun, implants do not allow me to do that.
We don't know this. It is not confirmed. In my experience it is based on experience events. It's unfair now because it may be unfair in the future because they may release real energy hog implants that cannot be run 24/7. Got it. P2W is a slippery slope but we aren't slipping on it so it's irrelevant. "Better camos" lol, I wear bright *** golden camo 100% of the time with a bright pink gun and it's a non-factor. I'm a member and it means I get access to weird Harasser grills, oh many p2w such shame. The game needs to make money. If it's making money off people wanting to jump off towers and live instead of making money off escalating OP weaponry well then sign me up because that's perfect
It's already unfair to anyone who DOES want to use current Level 3 Implants. It will be unfair in the future to anyone who wants to use future Level 3 Implants. The "power creep" on premium priced resources is a common occurrence across many games. It would be reckless and short sighted to not be vigilant about this element in PS2. That is just spin and denial. camouflage - the act, means, or result of obscuring things to deceive an enemy, as by painting or screening objects so that they are lost to view in the background, or by making up objects that from a distance have the appearance of fortifications, guns, roads, etc. What you are wearing is an outfit. Not camoflage. Many of the most desired camoflages are restricted access. Recon. Dark Digital. That is cosmetic. I have been talking about non-cosmetic stuff. SOE is TERRIBLE at making games that keep players around. They usually start with a neat/original idea and fun implementation... then once they see what's there they (a) have no idea how to comprehend/fix the rough edges, and (b) tinker endlessly to warp it to their personal preference and away from what their players want. These Implants are SOE being SOE. Tinkering endlessly to warp their game and drive players off. Trying to add something they don't know how to design properly and so they're adding a potential train wreck. This isn't a "companies need to make money" argument. This is a "please step down from the ledge so you don't fall off the building" argument. I've already covered how SOE can make GOBS of money doing Implants in a proven TCG format. SOE leadership has demonstrated time and again that it doesn't see or understand how to tweak its own systems well in certain areas. It's what makes it so easy for other companies to copy their games and then be more successful. SOE needs to recognize this career pattern of behavior and not just keep running into the same wall. I've worked with SOE people before, I've been on the inside of a SOE spinoff company. It's in their culture. So they need to take extraordinary steps in these matters and outsource to consultants who can think outside the box for them. SOE is GREAT at what they do well. And TERRIBLE at what they don't do well. Also... (1) Excessive RNG (drops AND subsequent crafting both?!) and (2) Energy meters that constantly drain frustrate people for no real gain. Frustrating players is not a good thing, especially for no gain.
I and nobody in my outfit nor anybody I have spoken to about it across many outfits across the entire server have expressed any problem with collecting enough charge to keep implants running. The pertinent things that seems to be universal are: 1) gain is not based on xp but rather on xp events, that is to say, you'll get as many drops from 100 kills as 100 resupply ticks. This is fantastic as it encourages support and rewards things like AA and punishes useless people who are not helping, like bush wookies, as they COULD be getting fantastic amounts of implants from recon darts/spotting tools but they are not 2) literally everybody I have talked to about this outside of this thread is running at an excess of implant energy and implants themselves. I have made a special effort to weed out all the f2p warriors and ask them as well. I don't know what you guys are doing wrong 3) Nothing TCG is a good idea. MTG was brought up on this very page as a horrible example of how to do things. TCG bad bad bad Also camo is entirely placebo. If you want to blend in you should wear extremely white camo because that's what all medics on all factions look like, or Giraffe because everybody wearing Giraffe looks pretty much the same regardless of faction. Hence the longstand GOON tradition of killing all Giraffe camo users on sight. Indar Dry Brush is also good for this because it is much, much more common. My "outfit" functions exactly as well as my "camo" consisting of gray scales and a head wrap, because there's a billion ways to get spotted before your camo even comes into the equation and being bright neon and farting balloons doesn't even matter if you can land headshots more reliably than the other guy
I'm an FTP player (money woes meant my sub had to go, soz SOE) and implants aren't PtW in the slightest. Given that most of the people saying "they're pay to win" don't even use them, it's especially funny and reeks of "I'M SCARED OF CHANGE!" tbh.
