How are more casual players supposed to compete with experienced ESF pilots?

... Seriously? If someone hits you with a sniper rifle and you crash, they get the kill. But it wasn't the sniper rifle that killed you, it was the crash that killed you. And the sniper rifle didn't cause the crash. You're really proving my point if that's the type of example you have to rely on. As I said, small arms effects the ESF, but the pilot is uneffected since it's literally and factually IMPOSSIBLE for small arms fire to kill an esf unless the pilot intentionally lets it happen.

And anyways, the reason we're even on this topic is because the reason it's difficult for new pilots is because of PS2s inherent crappy flight system that requires far too much time and effort just to be competent. In normal flight mechancs even a newbie can figure out how to fly and shoot at the enemy, yeah ace pilots will still vastly out perform the newbie but the newbie can still be useful, same as they are with infantry or tanks. In PS2s flight model a new player is completely worthless and is required to spend thousands of certs and dedicate hours upon hours of time just to be able to fly for more than 5 minutes, and he'd STILL get chewed up by aces instantly.

As has been said, the skill ceiling for ESFs is high, and that's fine. But the skill -FLOOR- is too high and that's what needs to be changed.

I disagree. The flight mechanics in PS2 are unique and challenging, therefore rewarding as well. SOE has done many things to bring new players some "ease" with flying like coyotes and afterburner cert line. Small arms can still heavily damage an ESF so there is that.

The call for traditional flight mechanics has been howled many times on these forums and I doubt it will ever be implemented. PS2 ESFs are not jets. They are VTOL aircraft. I, as a pilot who is directly effected by flight mechanics, rather love the flight model because it is unique and challenging. I doubt SOE would change the DEFINING core mechanic of flight in their game. If the flight model is not for you, then flying may not be your thing!

That's the sort of mistaken silken makes, just because something is hard or challenging doesn't automatically make it good. Something can be challenging and still be unfun. You like it, obviously, that's why you fly. But how many people out there are like me who don't like it and thus can't fly because we have no options? I wouldn't be surprised if there was a rather large portion of people out there who want to fly but don't like PS2s mechanics.

Also, it's not just about being VTOL. Battlefield 2142 had VTOL aircraft that could hover and the like, and those were infinitely superior to what we have here and I flew in that game too. If PS2 had a GOOD VTOL flight model, like 2142 it wouldn't be an issue, but it doesn't. It doesn't strictly have to be "you're planes now" but the flight model should change to make it more accessible to more players. The current model is just too restrictive.

I feel likewise about infantry. I am not good at infantry play and that is why I don't fight ground fights. I hope that SOE will make meaningful changes to infantry play so that career pilots like myself can access ground fights without getting stomped by career infantry players.

How exactly did the ps2 flight crew keep the devs from murdering flight combat in the first place? They seemed pretty hell-bent on turning airplay into a contest of loadouts, like ground vehicle combat currently is.

And what changes would you propose? Because if you're bad at infantry play you're bad at FPS' in general, since PS2 has exceptionally generic infantry gameplay. If you are incapable of playing FPS games then nothing SOE changes will help you.

Dang I was hoping they would help make the ground game more accessible to new players.

Except the ground game is perfectly accessible to new players as anyone who's played a video game before can jump in and kill guys.

Why are the forums full of idiots like you?

I dont know about that, I disagree. I tend to lose to career infantry players all the time. It does not feel accessible to me, I always get jumped by three dudes who were behind me.

Sounds like the devs have been too easy on you guys

Care to clarify? Cuz when I first got into PS2 I had zero trouble figuring things out, same with everyone I've introduced to it. In what way is PS2 a difficult game to understand? Grab a gun, run out, kill guys. It aint hard.

That is exactly what my experience was like flying. I got in an aircraft, went out, started killing ESFs. It only took about two hours to get the feel for it.

All new players can 1v1 Therum on PTS and win upon first logging in, right?

Seriously doubt that since even ACE pilots routinely state they took a long time to get good.

Being competent =/= being the best. New players can figure out how to use a tank or how to be infantry, it's not hard, they run in and kill things. But they're not the best. In a 1v1 against a veteran player they will most likely lose. That goes back to the whole "the skill ceiling is high" thing. In infantry/ground vehicle gameplay the skill FLOOR isn't very high, anybody can figure it out in 5 minutes and get kills pretty easily. But the skill CEILING is pretty high and there is a very clear and distinct separation between a new player and a veteran.

That isn't the case with air. In the sky the skill floor is so high that even entering the air game to be on even the most basic level requires thousands of certs and hours upon hours of practice. The skill floor for the air game needs to be the same as everything else in the game. Easy to learn, difficult to master, that's how it works with infantry or tanks, why shouldn't it work that way with ESFs?

I don't know about that, I have to disagree. The infantry skill floor is too high. Career infantry players have put thousands of certs into their loudouts and unless I just dedicate all my time to infantry play I will never be able to enter the infantry game, it is inaccessible.

Ok, back up a second. Look at what you just posted, you don't like the mechanics or flying in Planetside in general yet you're asking SOE to change the fundamental way the air game in PS2 operates?

You seem to not like flying, or the mechanics at least, in PS2 in general. But thats the thing, the flight style in PS2 IS the defining characteristic of it. Just like SC has space physics with coupled/decoupled mode, PS2 has super duper crazy VTOL and helojets.

To me, the challenge of getting the experience and (swine would disagree) skill to solo or goomba stomp an outfit was a pretty ****** and painful process. I had to learn to lead, to constantly keep the target in my sights, to make myself hard to hit, and get good angles on the enemy. But, its the same like that for any game. The difference is, PS2 doesn't have leagues. You don't always fight Silver league like in CS:GO, you may, or often, run into the global elite.

I'd add that this was my experience in BF3 after buying it later than most. I had the Beta/Alpha and loved it but didn't but it till later. Generally speaking, when trying to fly I'd pretty consistently get a2a'd by another chopper/jet within a minute or two. Then once I got my own a2am and learned to tail someone, they'd pop flares/ECM. This has also, shockingly, been my experience with Star Citizen too. I mean, come on dude, its like that for all games. You're just dramatizing it, you flibertigibbet you (google dat word homie).

Again, this isn't Battlefield brotha. This is super duper no recoil pew pew flashy lasers and bloom shooter with vehicles. You could turn that around and say if 2142 (which I never played, apologies) had more arcade style mechanics, it'd would be a lot more fun!

In any case, that last part is true about all aspects of PS2. You really, REALLY are restricted by what you can and cannot do by certs and resources, it just so happens that other players contribute to that lack of accessibility and you have the means to actually call them out and complain about it, rather than call out SOE about their pay for "convenience" model (AKA certs/SC).

I'll just say this, you've never been lancer'd or small arms'd to hell by DA/AC after you lolpod one of them. All weapons affect an ESF.

So in a nutshell "I worked my way around the **** controls to a point I'm now good at it and now don't want anyone else to play with me" ?

Dude, I'll be blunt - that's an incredibly selfish attitude to have. We're haemorrhaging players. Having something as vital to the game as ESFs be so insanely hard to get half decent in is BAD FOR THE GAME.

As for easy games being boring? PS2 is easy? Since when? The removal of certain ****** up bugs - and they are bugs, not "features" no matter how much you people say it is as it keeps out the rif-raf - would improve the air game AND give YOU more to shoot at...I mean, do you not like certs?

I have literally no idea why you could be against smoothing out the ESF controls so they're not such a buggy ****-fest that only people with 200 hours and/or aspergers could EVER get even remotely proficient at.

I mean, other than "I don't want to run the risk some of the new people will be better than me some day" I LITERALLY can't think of a single reason.

Please enlighten me oh Skylord

I agree with you, just about infantry and tank combat. I think those controls and mechanics need a complete redesign so that I don't have to learn a bunch of magic maneuvers in order to get into those kinds of fights. It is truly BAD FOR THE GAME for current ground mechanics to be so difficult to get into that career pilots can't just jump into a tank or infantry fight and start winning.

Wow, it takes you 100s of hours to learn how to shoot a rifle and drive a tank?

**** me maybe I should give ESFs another go, because I picked that **** up instantly.

Almost like they're intuitively designed controls or something, eh?

Wait forgot, you're a pilot. You wouldn't know owt about that haha xD