How about you fix Dalton round dimensions?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Yuki10, May 6, 2015.

  1. Yuki10

    Not exactly. Server doesn't have inherent latency (well, it does, but its sub-ms we are talking about). Players connection to the server on the other hand, do have latency depending on type of internet service, distance, equipment, etc. So if I have 40-60ms round-trip packet times, there is no reason why someone with 200ms should be affecting me. if anything, i should be the one running in circles around him. But that's if the kill was calculated on the server (ideal) or my end (workable) vs theirs (worst). Why is it calculated their end? Who the hell knows?

    As others pointed out - for players to be able to play - we need to be able to rely on what we see to be true. if i see shots incoming 5-10 meters to the left of me, i'm not supposed to die from direct hit. With the round/projectile properties the way they are: size, velocity, gravity added on top of shooter's client side hit detection, there is no telling if someone is actually aiming well at you and hitting or if the rounds are being sprayed without good aim. All of them look the same. So if my client knows that dalton shot travels at 160m/s (just an example, i don't remember actual velocity) and it renders it as a miss on my screen - maybe it needs to be adjusted to travel at 400m/s so it renders much close to a hit on my screen? yes, this will make hitting ESF with dalton even easier (like it used to be), but at least it will be something that both parties can see rendered correctly so at least we can play based on what both actually see and not what only one person saw.

    Devs - can you please chime in ? Look at the screenshot - does this seem normal or is that something you think may need adjustment?
  2. Yuki10



    Huh? there are slower projectiles in the game, dalton does not require highest aim prediction. Try hitting ESF with a pounder or falcon. There are also guns with much greater bullet drop effect (hey tank buster). Try using that over distance like dalton can be used. You are making these statements as if they are true,but they are not.
  3. FateJH

    That's ... a very interesting proposition. There is definite reason to believe it will cause more complaints and hackusations than it would solve issues; and, off-hand, I am not certain in what situations the required predictive algorithms would be valid or effective or even convincing; but, the core idea of telling each client to actively render things imprecisely as long as the imprecise representation matches what is actually happening might be worth considering in one part or another.

    As a strike against the idea, if I may, what is the player in an ESF who was just Dalton'd on the Liberator's screen going to think when a Dalton round that was previously visually going to miss them suddenly changes trajectory in mid-air to guarantee that the round and the ESF are in the same place when the hit registers?
  4. Eyeklops

    PS2 has quite a bit of server processing latency when compared to smaller games (BF/COD), and it's certainly more than sub-ms.

    In regards to an enemies ability to hit you, you're 100% wrong. You're "echo" (as Wrel called it) is your latency + server latency + enemy latency behind on your enemies screen.

    In games like BF4/COD with server-side hit detection (SSHD) you typically play on a "city" server geographically located near you (15~50ms ping). In PS2 they use regional servers (US EAST/WEST...etc) and the ping can be 30~125+ms. If PS2 used server side hit detection, predicting where to aim would increase in difficulty as ping raises. Instead, Planetside goes the CSHD route to ensure (barring hit registration issues of course) that a "hit" on your screen is a hit in the game. Planetside does do some latency compensation, but at best it's usually responsible for mutual deaths.


    So you want to change weapon balance because you can't deal with CSHD???
    • Up x 1
  5. Czarinov


    I forgot to mention that I was speaking of air engagements.

    But since you mentioned it, using MAX weaponry is easier (in the effective range) because a) you're stationary, predicting correct lead is easier; you're not getting confused by your own movement, b) don't these weapons have higher RPM? you realize it's easier to get a good lead when you have more feedback (that's why it's easier to hit ESF with Bulldog, again in it's effective range, than with dalton)?

    However I have never been killed in ESF by neither of those weapons. If you're speaking of hitting farming ESF close range, it's so much easier with max weapons or rocketlaunchers than dalton at the same range, because ESF keep themselves stationary at moments to attack infantry / vehicles.

    There are AP shells that are capable of hitting ESFs, but one also uses them when stationary. Speaking of Tank Buster - it's effective range is limited. In your argument style we can say it's the highest skill to hit ESF with crossbow at range of 200 m. But this just gets hilarious.

    Using Dalton shots reliably requires a great pilot who gives you an angle and stability, this introduces great initial difficulty. When aiming with dalton you have to compensate for the movement of your aircraft, because your bullets don't inherit any momentum. You then need to predict and realize ESF movement, which is also more complex in a2a engagements.

    It is indeed my subjective opinion, not facts.
  6. sustainedfire


    It occurs only with certain players - routinely. They are exploiting their bad connection or forcing a bad connection.

    Others can try to ram, though they miss as they should- since there is no contact on screen by a large margin.
  7. Czarinov


    Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were speaking generally. Yes, there are indeed people who abuse lag.
  8. Eyeklops

    Example, assuming 0 server latency, 100ms latency for each client (200ms client to client), and a .4 second flight time for Dalton round:
    • 0.0 seconds:
      • Player 1 fires Dalton round at Player 2's ESF
      • Player 2 sees nothing yet
    • 0.2 seconds:
      • Player 1 sees Dalton round is half way to target
      • Player 2 sees Player 1 fire the Dalton round
    • 0.4 seconds:
      • Player 1 sees Dalton round hit target (Player 1 client sends the "hit" message to server)
      • Player 2 sees Dalton round at half way point
    • 0.5 seconds:
      • Server gets hit message from Player 1 and sends death message to both players
    • 0.6 seconds:
      • Player 1 gets "you exploded him" message from server and watches Player 2 explode
      • Player 2 sees Dalton round miss and gets "You exploded" message from server, and subsequently...explodes.
    My experience with PS2 says this feels like an accurate description of how the events would unfold.
    • Up x 2
  9. Eyeklops

    I want to correct something: BF3 uses a CSHD "like" model, but because the average latency is pretty low things like "dying around a corner" aren't as noticeable.
  10. Badname82

    The Dalton has to be kick-*** as it's named after Patrick Swayzee's character in Road House.
  11. Vinny

    Also along the lines of this post , i can't even count the number of times I've engaged a lib , maneuvered to be above it , empty 1/2 a clip and then promptly get daltoned even though i know they shouldn't have a shot