How about just turning off spawns in contested bases?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Astriania, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. Astriania

    I don't expect this to get a great reception but ... discuss. Tonight on my server there were a load of outfits doing the organised redeploy into a base to clear it with 2 minutes left on the timer. It's just not fun to play in that environment, to the extent that I and several other people logged off a lot earlier than we usually do.

    There's various suggestions about how that can be ameliorated, but how about just not allowing defensive spawn room redeployment from anywhere except already in the hex? If you want to come and resecure somewhere, at least drop 4 Galaxies on it so you have something that can be countered.
    • Up x 4
  2. TheFamilyGhost

    The problem isn't what the game gives us.

    The problem is players (or forumsiders) that haven't figured out that spawning at the next base and advancing to contact is much better than being camped until the cap turns.

    It is a matter of player sophistication. We see it every day in forumside. Solutions are in game, made by the players; NOT in forum.
    • Up x 1
  3. Astriania

    Oh, we redeployed out of there after we got wiped, we didn't stay to be camped. But there's just no fun to be had in a facility alert when you're in a facility in a 12-24 battle and suddenly you're swamped by 2 platoons.
  4. Ronin Oni

    All they need are SCU gens protected by a shield, in a building next to or 1 over from their spawn room or 1 of the teleport exits, that cannot be accessed until capture progress >50-75%. (Gameplay and balance to determine exact percent)

    Destroying SCU stops spawning and drops spawn room shields.

    This means a defensive force has enough time to show up and secure the area at least outside their spawn before attackers have more than half captured a base.

    After that, if they get pushed into their spawn, checkmate. No more spawning, move to next base and set up a forward defense to make them pay for every inch.

    MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more fun


    This also encourages defenders to get their own AMS set up as backup when getting close to, or past, SCU vulnerability point... which creates another natural, and player driven, side objective at bases.

    Also, expand territory "capture sphere" out at least a hex more from flag. Controlling the area in between objective and opponents next spawn is part of that base capture or defense. This would encourage tanks to fight in the area between bases when bonus (defending) or capture (attacking) XP is on the line.

    They're out their controlling, or contesting over, AMS spawns and are essential to the fight inside.
    • Up x 2
  5. HadesR


    That's not really got anything to do with what the OP is on about ...

    He's on about mass redeployment by defenders to re-secure a base .. Suddenly a 12 v 12 turns into a 48 v 12 as Newly arrived defenders pour out the spawn room ..
  6. TheFamilyGhost

    Oh, then nanites.
  7. Ronin Oni

    Oh, in that case, the entire point of the system is to get lonewolf, quick action players directly up to a frontline.

    Actually, holy light bulb Batman!!

    I know why they nixed Squad Leader spawn!

    It's the only way they can limit front line reinforce deploy from being abused.

    That way, if you want to move a squad or platoon, you can't just spawn 4 squad leaders over there (having them leave squad if "out of squad" is a limitation, or out of the outfit if it's no outfit members, or use low rank alts if tied to BR. Always around the limitation) and then having your whole platoon move 48 people.

    This way, if it's say a 12 v 24 and so it shows up for reinforcements, only the first 12 people to reinforce from outside the region can spawn there!

    Then limit spawn option to current base Edit: Last base spawned at or direct line up lattice to HQ. Spawn location moves forward or backwards as controlled territory moves from last base spawned at.

    So in order to move a platoon to a base under attack, reliably (unless massive outpop which needs faster reinforcement anyways), you need to Gal drop. Fortunately, Gals are now more common!

    If they get all those systems working right and smoothly, it could improve things immensley
  8. MrJengles

    They can still abuse it with squad beacons though :(

    Who needs player driven logistics when there's redeploy meta!
  9. Ronin Oni


    :eek:

    #NerfSquadBacon2014
    (no not a typo on bacon)

    Hmm... timer on deploying them isn't long enough to really prevent chaining this either.

    I... I...

    Wait. I've got it!

    Limit Squad Bacon deploy to same regional restrictions. You can use the bacon if you're already there, not to teleport across the continent.

    Prevents ESF deploying squad leaders to quick deploy as well.

    What this system effectively does is limit reinforcements to
    a) lonewolves for small differences in faction strength (the primary target audience for reinforcements)
    b) squads for mid sized differences
    c) platoons can only quickly reinforce if there is a huge discrepancy in population.

    Maybe squad members of Squad Leader in an area needing reinforcement gets priority? This way singlular distant members can more easily get linked back up with the squad if they're separated.

    Organized platoons will be forced to rely more heavily on vehicle transport.
  10. Phyr

    Spawning is too easy, but it needs to be with how short timers are. But, longer timers (like release) will just result in boring players a lot, especially during offpeak.

    If there was a way for them to have variable timers based on population (total and percentage), then maybe we could look into spawn options.
  11. Thardus

    It's no fun to play in an environment where defenders react to you attacks? Am I understanding you correctly?
  12. Ronin Oni

    You don't want to punish players because of other players choice to play the same faction, or worse, because your enemy stops playing. That's a bad system.

    What you want is to reward players who are the underdogs for sticking it out, or to encourage others to join their cause.

    Carrot > Stick.
  13. Ronin Oni

    Problem is when 2 48 man platoons in a zerg fit can hop across the entire continent to stop 3 platoons attacking 3 seperate targets by dropping all 48 at the last second and pushing them out with 2x the numbers in an instant without any logistics to back it up.

    Rinse and Repeat.

    The system absolutely needs to encourage and allow defenders to get matching numbers to a base.

    I made a couple posts addressing that.
  14. Axehilt


    While this is true, I'm not sure this is precisely the problem the OP was trying to solve.
    • Avoiding camps? Yeah, definitely solvable by players. Spawn a base back as a combat vehicle, kill their vehicles then snipe their sunderer(s) (or go directly for the sunderers when possible.) Easy.
    • Fixing logistics? Not solvable by players. If players have access to spawning anywhere there's combat, it becomes impossible to outmaneuver your opponent. (Or rather, it's possible only to a very minor degree and much shallower than a game where location matters more.)
  15. Axehilt


    Definitely agree that with the current base layouts (where the hardspawn is usually quite close to the capture points) it really ruins the game to allow players to mass-redeploy and instantly teleport directly to where they're needed.

    Your solution would improve things, but is a little harsh. Another viable solution might be:
    • Limit redeploy options so they're mostly based on where you died. (Special deploy options for squads can stay.)
    • Instant action remains, limited by a cooldown -- maybe there's a cooldown on joining "needs reinforcement" bases too.
    • Teach players that using vehicles to get from place to place is important.
      • Maybe create a light aircraft that's the harasser/flash of the air (very weak combat capabilities, cheap, great for transportation, easier to fly than other air, and has some electronic warfare options which give it a unique role in combined arms battles (because we don't actually want a useless flash-of-the-air, we want a useful vehicle in the mix).)
    • Add air/tank facilities to most/all bases so that you always have transportation no matter where you're forced to spawn due to the unreliable spawn rules. Make sure these terminals are relatively close to the spawn (no more tech plants where you have to walk a freaking kilometer to reach the air term.)
  16. Thardus

    Fair enough. A love the whole "overwhelming defenders out of nowhere" thing, but it'd be much more satisfying with a Galaxy than with simply redeploying.
  17. Tuco

    Sure that would work if the cap timer was increased to 1 hour.
    • Up x 1
  18. Ronin Oni

    In order to reliably get all 48 to a fight, most of the time they would have to gal drop unless it was like 56 v 12... but even then, another squad joining at the same time would split them up, and with a hundred randoms on the continent just jumping to the "hottest fight" when they aren't at a base having one, would add even more chance to not get everyone there.
  19. Makora

    My biggest problem is attacking a base. And by that I mean the super-awesome-leetness that is just throwing up a platoon at the drop of a hat. And then equipping all of them with lightnings, sunderers and MAXs with little to no logistical difficulty.

    Don't get me wrong. I give props to anyone who manages to organize and deploy such a force in under 10 minutes. I honestly thing some larger outfits have squad waiting at deploy screen just for that. Really, props for that.
    But my problerm lies in that you can do so with no resource cost. That there is no drawbacks, other then the whims and wills of people themselves, to move such a large unit around.

    The only thing I can think of, that immediately doesn't ruin everything is instead of individual spawn timers you get base specific, "dynamic wave timers". Rather then 15 seconds from death. Each base spawns people in a wave. Lets say every 15-20 seconds as a standard. The more people you "queue up" the longer the timer gets. So when you try to pop out a whole squad in a single wave. You might be looking at a 40-60 second timer. A whole platoon, you're better off getting galaxies.
    The idea is that deploying by spawn is not impossible. But it is discouraged. It is also to encourage alternate spawn locations. Sunderer spawns for example should ALWAYS be longer or more adversely affected by these mechanics, or have a limit to how many people can queue up (not a whole squad, but lets say 6 people at a time).
    This would also encourage transportation, rather then teleportation. Use of galaxies and sunderers as transport vehicles. And give a proper punishment for dying. You are not just putting yourself out of combat, you are delaying your team from getting into combat.

    This idea is pretty raw and unpolished. But you get the gist.
  20. Irathi


    I don't know how many times I've suggested some sort of mechanic that would allow the attackers to stop the defenders from spawning at a base, more than half the replies are usually in the form of "but its a good tactic to mass up in the spawns!"..