Higby, unlimited ammo is about as useful as no bullet drop....

Speak for yourself. As a mid/long range infantry flanker/skirmisher, I LOVE the prospect of unlimited ammo on my weapons! Whenever I play LA, Infil, or my personal favorite (HA w/ Eidolon + Lancer) I'm constantly running out of ammo.

Unlimited ammo gives you the freedom to take pot shots at enemies you might otherwise leave alone, and to provide suppression/saturation fire support for teammates w/o concern for wasting bullets. And it gives you a lot more freedom of movement since you're not tied to ammo packs - esp when operating in enemy territory.

And, if you pace your shots and burst fire with rests in between, your overall damage output long-term will skyrocket to levels the TR/NC can only match by squatting on an ammo pack.

TBH though I think that the HEAT mechanic should be offered as an optional ammo type for VS weapons so the choice is up to the player to use it or not.

And "no bullet drop" is basically a free bonus for VS since the drawback that was given to vs to balance it - increased damage dropoff - was removed from almost all VS weapons ~6 months after Launch once SOE realized that most weapons gained nothing from the lack of drop. It doesn't really help most weapons, but for those can take advantage of it (namely the Semi-auto Battle/Scout/Sniper rifles) it is really useful.

I do agree w/ you about the MBT secondaries, though. It's kinda silly to have unlimited ammo on the Secondaries but not the primaries since you'd still be tied to an ammo tower/Sundy. It should either be on both weapons, or neither.

The charge mechanic I could give or take. It does let me carry more total damage per loadout on the Lancer than other RLs, so that's a nice bonus. Otherwise, meh.

Don't say We or Us, I personally LOVE the unlimited ammo. Its about damn time we got something technologically advanced.

If the Vanu were as overpowered as people keep trying to say than anyone could just pick up a scythe, magrider, serpent, or orion and instantly be able to **** on every other player in the game. So why is it that not every BR 1 who joins the game an grabs the orion is at a 13 KDR? Because while we do have advantages in weapons, the orion for example, they come with heavy disadvantages. The orion has a low mag size, ghastly full auto horizontal recoil, and just awful damage degradation over ranges. All vanu weapons, with very few exceptions, have the worst damage degradation over distance to balance NBD, along with the worst horizontal recoil in the game on many weapons. The scythe, while paper thin and the L PPA is still amazing, has the largest top down hitbox of any of the ESFs. The magrider, while it can dodge rockets, has the worst main gun of all ESMBTs, largest hitbox both topdown, to the side, and front on. Granted, since getting killed by a magrider is getting killed by a giant purple flying pancake its worth it.

Who cars about unlimited ammo ?

In a fight the ground is littered with ammo boxes how can you possibly run out before you killed ?

No bullet drop now there's another useless trait the VS have, it applies to weapons that it makes almost no difference to and the weapons it would be useful on are ignored.

VS are started to sound like the TR accepting mediocrity instead of having weapons that can actually kill things.

Because depleting heat in a weapon only helps you if you leash yourself to that ammo box. Otherwise it'd have to have an effect field of like 25m which would almost be OP as heck.

And no, most people don't want a damage output nerf just so they can not run out of ammo that 3% of the time they actually would normally run out of ammo. I run with an NS-15M and guess how often I run out of ammo? Once in the past week, and no I don't run extra mags (as I use ASC + AS + Health Regen implant on my HA).

Unlimited ammo is actually not that useful unless you're in an ESF or maybe Lib (because those run out of ammo ALL the time). It's about the same with bullet drop. It SEEMS useful but in reality it only makes a difference in less than 5% of situations while something like less recoil helps out in ALL situations.

Look at the change with the Saron. It used to be 6 shots before a reload. With the change, it's 5 shots before it overheats and the overheat time is 6 seconds vs the current 3 seconds for a reload. Therefore the damage output is VASTLY reduced all in exchange for unlimited ammo which doesn't even help you since the main cannon still runs out of ammo and has to be resupplied.


One weapon that MIGHT ACTUALLY work with unlimited ammo is the Lasher because you run out of ammo with that weapon all the time. That is a special exception though because you don't use it often and the times you do, you don't plan on being in a position for the enemy to shoot back.

What the ****? Are you ******** me? If I have to charge the damn thing for that long, It better be a 1shot kill further than 230m....


Edit: I just checked test, Its the same. Do not tease my phaseshift like that, Its my primary sniper.

1: Last time I checked it was 6 shots to overheat. If you fire five shots you stop just short of overheating. If you grab the coolant cert, it's 6/7.
2: If you do fire five shots, the cooldown is most definitely not 6 seconds. It's about 2.

Essentially, the new Saron will only be bad if you are bad and have absolutely no idea how to manage heat. It is also significantly more accurate than the current Saron: smaller CoF bloom, smaller max CoF.

You will of course also gain the advantage that any time the enemy doesn't remain exposed long enough to fire all 6/7 shots, you will have no need to reload. This improves its performance in peek-a-boo fights because if the enemy pops out, takes a few hits, then pops out again one second later, you'll be either completely cooled down or nearly so instead of only having 1-2 shots left to throw at them.

The new saron in PTS is really giving up its raw CQC potential for a lot more long range power especially now that the stupid CoF is reduced.

The current live saron can't even compete with the halberd at range because of pitiful DPS and CoF. The new saron on test [Jan 27, 2015] can actually somewhat compete with the Halberd at range [300 meters] shooting a full 7-8 shots before completely overheating [if you shoot 7 you will get more DPS over time because of faster cool down I believe].

As far as I can tell, the new saron doesn't have any downsides for its infinite ammo or heat mechanic [ their still fine tuning the numbers I believe as they'll have to even DPS and TTK between the main guns and new tank HP]. The changes are a nerf to its close range potential while a huge buff to its long range potential where it's no bullet drop and faster [then halberd] velocity will come into play.

IMHO I would wait for the final implementation because it's obviously not finished yet and there's is literally almost no downsides to the unlimited ammo or heat mechanic if you have trigger discipline. They actually did exactly what Saron users like me wanted, my main gripe with the current live Saron is it's not that the trade off for CQC is not worth the halberd's alpha and long range potential but the new saron on test has exponentially better long range potential while retaining some of its CQC firepower. I would wait another few days to see what they do to the changes, they'll definitely touch the TTK against all targets with the main guns too.

You don't have to use those weapons. Just sayin'.

My apologies. I thought I remember it being 5 shots. Still, the cooldown IS 6 seconds and no 3 which is for the normal reload. Still doesn't change the fact that it's significantly lowering the damage output of the Saron. First it was a 1 shot sniper rifle, then they changed it to a 6 shot carbine, and now it's a 6 shot battle rifle and we all know the Battle Rifles are utterly horrible.

Doesn't change the fact that unlimited ammo doesn't provide it any benefits, and just gives nerfs that are entirely unnecessary.

The changes that really improved it were the CoF buffs, not the change to the heat mechanic. Though the heat mechanic is nice, I GUARANTEE they will "balance" unlimited ammo with a nerf to some part of the Saron that's significantly more important than a trait that doesn't even sync with the main turret.

Dude the Corvus is a brick shooter and a great mid-long range Medic gun, I have literally NO idea what you're talking about.

Trigger, trigger, trigger discipline. Burst with your weapons when enemies are not in the same building as you, or further than 30m.

Burst fire is your friend. Corvus is a beast.

Serpent, Orion, Sirius, Corvus, Pulsar C... all are great guns, they've all gone through some interesting changes but ultimately I would never call them useless or ****ters. You should practice recoil management or something more often.

From someone who auraxiumed the phasshift already, i say good luck for the medal after the nerf.Since you can't one shot people at 250m+ you HAD to do 2 charged shots the head to be sure to kill your opponent (and also using breath implant2)
So if this nerf come to live you even won't be able to kill the afk engie on his turret.
The infinite magazine is useless i NEVER needed ammo with my parallax nor my V10 (i use ammo belt)

These guns are a direct nerf for our engineers who'll be useless on infantry fight, It will be the same result for our ammo suderer, and NS weapons.
If I'm playing VS i don't want to have one class less than other factions, i'm here ,you know, for sci fi weapons, and i waited since the launch.

Corvus is the worst performing VS assault rifle, if you exclude the starter Pulsar.

There is really one good assault rifle in the VS arsenal, the Terminus. Alternatively, you can use the CME, if your recoil control is not up to par yet.

Massive reload time and high fire rate? Bad in most situations. 3/10 would use over the CQX.

Now, that razor thing with the whole second quicker reload and same damage per mag, that's actually good.

First off, lets look at this objectively and not subjectively like you are doing. As proved in the video I poste, the GD-7F is superior to the serpent.

VS has the orion, the SVA-98 got nerfed too hard and epecially with the 0.75x nerf, it almost got SAW level of recoil. The MSW-R, Carv, TMG-50, Anchor, EM6, GD-22s, SAW are all great LMG's. Meanwhile the VS have 1, the orion - rest are subpar and just plain bad.

Carbine VS have the pulsar which is a great gun, and the VX-67 which is good. Zenith tries to do everyhing but really comes up shy of doing anything great. Also, VS has the worst default carbine. And you make it seem like the TR and NC doesnt have good carbines? jaguar, lc2 lynx (tho its inferior to serpent and gd-7f), amc, trac -5, cougar & Merc, GD-7F, razor, AC-X11 and bandit. I fail to see where VS really excells here?

And like you mentioned, the VS have by far the worst assault rifles of all 3 factions, no contest. The only good assualt rifle the VS have is the Terminus, rest are lackluster, horrible and plain bad. And it doesn't matter if you don't play this class, its still relevant to this discussion and not least the VS as a faction.

VS also to top it of, has the worst pistols in the game, "ttk on semi auto pistols"? What does that matter? You get blown away by the repeater & Desperado which have a faster TTK than the spiker. Also commish is far better than any VS "semi auto pistols" anyway.

No drop on silenced weapon is pointless since the dmg dropoff and velocity is so low its borderline useless and maybe works on 1 or 2 weapons in the VS arsenal. Heat mechanic comes with a _TON_ of downsides and generally no upsides and will take atleast 2 years from now on until they get it right, best scout rifles how? You know the no bullet drop comes with downsides right? Like lower velocity, and the range where you use a scout rifle no drop is pointless. other than that they are all exactly the same. For the rest of it:

-Only has the sleakest ESF from one straight ahead, from the top or bottom it has the largest.

-All MAX hitbox's are the same,

-3 lights on top of a mine that is double the size of bouncing betty isnt sneakier.

-3 PPA is currently worthless in current state, you couldnt bombard the broadside of a barn. On the other hand, the cannister is stronger than ever atm.

So again, you may like VS as a faction and thats just fine, but if you look at the faction as a whole and take everything into regard. They are simply in a pretty boring spot. The faction can work just fine competitively since it has a 3 really good guns, but unless you wont to play with those 3 guns the entire time you play VS, you are playing with subpar toys, and after 3 years its not fun anymore. And i didnt even touch the subject about VS have the worst damage per minute or even damage per mag, no long reload animation, the worst weapon designs etc. They are in a pretty bad spot and it seems like they arent even ½ done with the VS after 3 years. VS the forever beta faction.

They might have added something else though, maybe you can charge while cloaked?

Doesnt really matter when talking ultra high ROF CQC carbines. The GD-7F is still the best one around.

It's a fantastic suicide gun, you'll get the first kill, maybe the second using more ammo that you have to, have to reload, then die because of it's unreasonable downtime for CQC.

I agree, having aurax'ed the serpent I swore never to touch that gun again with a 10 foot pole.

Will this change include Dual Photon Pods?