Higby tweets shotgun rebalance for GU06

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by IntergalacticYoghurt, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. IntergalacticYoghurt

    Much like I said in the HA forums, what does this really mean?

    How can they further balance shotguns without making them significantly inferior to Carbines and SMG's?

    I suppose the hot-tip right now would be, if you're close to buying a shotgun with your hard-earned certs (or SSC)... Maybe hold off just a little longer..

    Oh, and they're looking into "rebalancing" the Scattmax too.

    What they REALLY should be doing is just removing the OHK ability from the phoenix.
    Interesting times. /popcorn.
  2. Rhyl

    For pump shotguns they need to either reduce the fire rate (which isn't that much slower than the autos) and/or remove the ability to use slugs. I don't know why the other shotguns need re-balancing. They were fine.
    • Up x 2
  3. Rogueghost

    Even in shotgun's current state there isn't much that makes me want to pick one over a smg or cqc carbine.
    I never liked the pump action, once you get past the fact it can OHK, its slow rate of fire is a real turn off when fighting groups.
  4. Ghoest

    I really hope they only mess with pump shotguns.

    We used regular shotguns for 4 months and they were just fine before.
  5. DarkJoker

    Here is how rebalance pumps....

    Remove OHK. Should only be OHK with at least a slug hitting the head.
    Increase reload speed of individual slug.
    Increase responsiveness of "cancelling" reload to fire a slug.
    Decrease slug spread.

    My idea is that the pumps main advantage is the ability to fire in the middle of reloading and accuracy. It should have slightly less power then the autos/semi, but be more accurate (2 shots should be available further away then semis) and have the ability to fire during reloading.
  6. Wolfwood82

    Then you have another shotgun, not a unique one. You might as well re-do one of the semi-autos to function more like a pump action (my money would be on the 8 round shotgun).

    No if anything they will drop pellet damage of the pumps to 125 per pellet, which means it would take 8 out of 10 pellets to kill rather then 7. OHK becomes significantly rarer, but still possible unless the target has a significant amount of nanoweave armor.

    What I really hope for, is the shotguns are made to be semi-effective at range, and a little less devastating at CQC. I think they could achieve that by dropping pellet damage to 125 per pellet for all of the shotguns (except maybe the 6 shot semi-autos), and tighten all the spreads so that they reach out to about 40-50m and are only as wide as that circle is that functions as your cross hairs. 125 damage means it would take 8 pellets to kill rather then 7, so the 6 pellet shotguns would still require 2 shots up close, have a decent range, and might only increase to 3-4 shots at 50m.

    The automatics should have a wider choke then the semi-autos, and probably shouldn't change at all except for dropping pellet damage to 125.
  7. Remainz

    I don't think there is anything wrong with the pump being a one hit kill weapon however the time between shots needs to be increased. Right now the time between each shot is only 0.5 seconds. This means if the user completely misses the first shot the shotgun still has a faster ttk than any of the cqb weapons. I'm not sure about other factions but the ttk for TR carbines and SMGs range from 0.525 seconds to 0.644 seconds. Taking that into account I think 0.7 or maybe even 0.8 seconds between shots would balance the weapon.
  8. FieldMarshall

    If they nerf damage on pump then whats the point of getting it? The only real advantage it had was that it could OHK.
    Unless they bring everything to 3HK and punp to 2HK, but then why not get the SMG...
  9. Wolfwood82

    I don't think they are going to remove the OHK feature from it entirely. DEVs have to tread carefully because a lot of people have already spent the money to purchase the pump action (myself among them) and would likely be super pissed if they nerfed it into uselessness or messed with it too much.

    I definitely agree with the OP on the Phoenix, that is way too cheap to be a OHK vs infantry.
  10. RichardDunn

    I really don't know what they can change about Shotguns without making them completely inferior to other weapons. Maybe a lower rate of fire? Even that is going a little too far. I feel that the Shotguns are already balanced, they excel in certain aspects and completely blow in others. I'm tired of posting the positives and negatives of Shotguns on the numerous Overpowered threads.

    It comes down to this conundrum:
    The loud whining minority, who thinks every weapons that kills them needs nerfed, cries about Shotguns, the Devs feeling the need to please them releases a nerf in the next patch. It's a disease that keeps going full circle and intensifying. It has become the Super Aids of PS2.
    • Up x 1
  11. Wolfwood82

    There are dozens of ways to rebalance shotguns, without drastically impacting their capabilities. It depends on the goal that the DEVs have in mind, and whatever problem they are perceiving.
  12. RichardDunn

    Could you be kind enough and list a reasonable change? I'm having a hard time comprehending any changes that won't render them inferior to other weapons in the game. With all the whining about them being OP'd I have yet to hear any constructive changes.

    I think the problem they are perceiving is that they feel the need to cater to the whining minority every time they cry nerf.
  13. Wolfwood82

    I could state an example, or I could direct you to one I already wrote. It's about 7 posts that way ^.

    I've never once read someone cry about the shotgun. Except when it was wielded by infiltrators and was originally a OHK weapon back in beta. Nor does it seem likely that the DEVs rely on nothing but player feed back to make their decisions. This is the kind of myth people like to make up to support their own whining. Before you get all emo melancholy about it, you might want to remember that the term "balance pass" is not always a negative thing.

    Seriously, unless they reduce the damage per pellet below 100, or reduce the number of pellets below 4 per shot, shotguns will remain 2 shot kill weapons at point blank range. They might decide to make shotguns spew out 16+ pellets that do 40 damage, and still maintain that 2 shot kill potential. Hell they could make the shotguns fire 100 pellets that do 5 or 6 damage, or 500+ pellets that do 1 damage.

    They have dozens of ways of tweaking the numbers and changing the gun. Dozens of ways of doing so to generate the desired effect. As of right now, we do not know what the desired effect is, so speculation (and crying) at this point is ultimately pointless. It might be that they want to make the shotgun more varied between the 5 versions. It could be that they decided being the ultimate CQC weapon is not the way to go. It may be that they decided it really was too powerful.

    Having looked up the tweet myself (since a certain genius OP failed to provide a freaking link so people could see for themselves what he was preaching about), I can honestly say you seem to be jumping at shadows. Let's play the "wait and see" game, shall we?

    Right now, there are 5 different types of infantry shotguns, but only 2 unique versions, pump and standard. All 4 versions are identical between empires. They all have more or less the same qualities and follow the same standards. The 3 originals are all identical to each other more or less in terms of accuracy, damage, and effectiveness. The only thing that really separates them out is clip size, semi or automatic, and reload speed. This, to me, screams "place holder!".

    The only shotgun that is even a little more different then the other "standards" is the freaking Jackhammer, and just going by the specs of the thing... It's garbage by comparison. It's a weaker Mauler with a higher minimum damage and a few other minor differences, yet is still a 2 shot kill weapon in CQC and even potentially a 2 shot kill weapon with it's minimum damage of 90x6.

    The Scattermax appears at first glance to be a variety of different weapons that are more or less the same except for minor differences. They are also more or less identical to normal shot guns. My guess is that the big problem Scattermaxes have is that they are normal shotguns mounted on heavily armored platforms that chew through infantry fairly quickly. I really doubt they are going to receive a major nerf, likely it will just be a minor change like tweaking various stats to make the weapons a bit more focused on what they are meant to be focused on rather then having the same weapon with 1 or 2 small changes.

    To sum up, stop spazzing out all over the forums. Seriously I'm starting to feel sorry for the cyber janitor.
    • Up x 1
  14. Wolfwood82

    Well hell, I probably won't get much sleep anyway. So here, random ideas on ways to change the weapons without changing their role and effectiveness.

    Nighthawk: Reduce damage per pellet to 112, reduce minimum damage to 40, increase pellet count to 8, increase clip size to 8, and increase the choke a bit. You now have a pellet hose that stays in line with current shotguns save for having a significant advantage in DPM and sacrificing effective range.

    Barrage: Reduce damage to 112, raise minimum damage to 85, tighten the choke even more. You now have a better long range shotgun that is roughly on par with the Jackhammer in terms of range and damage.

    Haymaker: Increase clip size to 10, extended magazine adds 4 shells. You now have a huge ammo count on your "high ammo" shotgun, focusing this weapon on DPM and ammo conservation over long periods of time.

    Focus the NC shotguns on higher damage per pellet, less pellet counts, and slower RoF. If you want to follow "Gauss" technology, tighten the choke on the weapons by a lot. This means that NC have a longer reach and more destructive potential with their guns, but limiting their clip sizes should compensate for that a bit. Their weapons could function more like Gauss Fletchette, firing a number of small caliber bullets rather then "pellets" which results in better penetration and more potential damage, but smaller pellet count. Slug rounds would have higher projectile speeds and a bit more range compared to TR slugs, possibly less damage as the NC decided to follow high-speed + low-mass ideology.

    Increase pellet counts (tremendously, these should be weapons that bark fourth puffs of plasma, so I think a sweet partical effect involving 600 or so pellets that do 1 damage with a wider choke would be awesome, if a bit much to hope for). The other option is to reduce pellet counts to 1, and raise the damage of that pellet to be a large blast of plasma that expands in size while degrading rapidly in damage the further it travels from the gun. For example, something like 650 damage at 1m to 325 or so damage at 15m. "Slug" ammo would be a more focused bolt of plasma that is significantly smaller but has a longer range. Different damages, sizes, and ranges based on the weapon's general focus (automatic having a shorter range while "6 shot semi" having a longer range).

    Possibilities are virtually endless, even while staying within the realm of "competitive with other CQC weapons".
  15. Manetheren

    Slow rate of fire? Uh huh.
  16. Kahlev

    Exactly, their rate of fire combined with OHK capability means that by the time they are done reloading there is another person in their sights about ready to die, on their quest to clear an entire room in about 5-10 seconds by themselves.

    People complain about ScattMAX's OHK, and they plan on nerfing it to a degree, do they really think a single weapon in the hands of other infantry should be untouched in that case?
    • Up x 1
  17. Manetheren

    That's what I meant lol, the chambering speed is way too short o_O
  18. Wolfwood82

    Technically it's a 2HK weapon, the only way a ScattMAX kills you with one "hit" is by unloading both barrels at once. Personally, I doubt the situation will change much.

    And infantry are not MAX suits, they die a lot faster and to far less causes. The weapon's other qualities make it somewhat undesirable to many people. I personally don't like the slow RoF and long reload speed, favoring the automatic or 6 shot semi myself.

    If they "rebalance" all shot guns, I'm hoping for a better variety between each empire set and a bigger difference between the styles themselves.
  19. Flashtirade

    I really hate to break it to you...
  20. Wolfwood82

    Oooo guru acts like he knows something, maybe why the sky is blue?

    If you have relevant information, share it. Otherwise stop wasting everyone elses time.