Higby: Return of the Tankside

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by BlueSkies, Jan 16, 2015.

  1. Hatesphere

    wait wait wait, is 2 C4 that has to be within *** slapping range of a tank that can one shot no longer going to kill it? time to find a new game I guess, all the drivers that cant look around are winning.
    • Up x 1
  2. ColonelChingles

    I guess they would be, when before it was the infantry that can't be bothered to look around that were winning? :p
    • Up x 1
  3. Hatesphere

    not realy, infantry not looking around got killed by tanks/ everything. now infantry cant even sneak up on/ flank a tank and kill it with C4 when it is within range to give the driver a hand shake (LA is a different story, I would honestly not care if C4 was removed from them as long as they get a real tool). at least SOE could have given direction C4 damage so C4 on the back plate still one hits.
    • Up x 4
  4. LibertyOne

    This signals a realignment with the combined arms concept with rock-paper-scissors balancing rather than rock-rock-rock balancing. To all you C4 fairies that are ragequitting over this: good riddence. I think I'll buy some station cash to celebrate.

    While innovative balancing can make a game interesting, the dynamics have long leaned too far in favor of the twitch crowd. A heavy with a dedicated anti-tank weapon has to hit it 4+ times, but a jumper with general purpose demolition can solo a tank in one. That's not balance, no matter how you slice and dice. That's sanctioned gankery.

    Tanks should be a hell of a lot harder to kill than a trooper. But, there is a related problem here that also needs to be fixed: scarcity. The argument that tanks should be more powerful than a jumper is easily countered with two words: tank spam.

    This all goes well beyond jumper vs. tanker and is, at its core, a logistics issue. Tanks should be hard to kill. They should also be hard to get. Granted, the resource requirement is "more", but it's not enough. Give my back my tank, yes. But also make it harder to get.

    The reason that will not happen is the dev's stated game objective of "all players fighting all the time." That is impossible to achieve with stratefied weapons systems without breaking the balance equation. If everyone wore hats and six shooters, we'd be all set.

    Whatever relief this brings to tankers, enjoy it while it lasts. It is imminently sensible but entirely inconsistent with the dev's primary objective of maximum adrenaline flow.
    • Up x 1
  5. Hatesphere

    a jumper could never solo a tank in one hit, it takes two C4 which mean the tank had the chance to make 3 or more shots on the target in most cases unless rushed by hord of infantry ( disregarding LA, LS needs a new tool, and this is the worst way to balance eC4). tanks should not be hard to kill if they are currently so easy to pull.
  6. FateJH

    Tanks are easy to kill: other tanks, AV MAXes (jury is out until MAX changes go live though), turrets, Air, HAs ...
  7. Pelojian

    Say that to ESFs. if you want to get rid of one as a ground pounder you can ether A)scare him away B) team up with a second AA source and destroy his force multiplier.

    One infantryman with a cheap couple of bricks of C4 should not be able to instantly and totally defeat a full health tank. the only thing that makes C4 Faires a real threat is their jetpacks. the only people that will come after you as non-la/without a jetpack are ones that have pre-placed C4 somewhere as a trap like a tank mine, a no hope engineer/medic/HA running towards you from the front or a 'jeehad john flash'.

    and remeber when the tank nerf happened before to address tank lethality against infantry higby said they'd look at infantry lethality against tanks. so this doesn't come as a surprise.

    Instead of complaining that something is happening that is good for the game and not your playstyle why don't you instead look at what you know and don't know. we know that 2x C4 will not be able to destory a full health tank.

    so the question is how much HP will a full health tank have left over after this change when said tank has been hit by 2 C4?

    You'll still be able to destory tanks with C4 the difference is it'll be almost like the deployment shield, no more rambo killjoy attacks, you'll have to hit tanks with a friend or go after already damaged tanks.
  8. Alarox

    If someone jumps out of an aircraft or off a jump pad or off a cliff (etc) they can reliably solo any tank.

    The tank physically can not know that it is coming.

    At best they can see the C4 falling from above them in third person, but it is too late by then.
    • Up x 4
  9. Hatesphere

    do you even read? anyone but a LA jumping out of an aircraft is **** with C4. i said i understand the issue whit LA and C4. dont screw all the other classes with a blanket nerf like this.
  10. ColonelChingles

    I'd be OK with this as well (though of course being a Lightning operator chances are that one C4 is still going to kill me no matter where it is placed).

    C4 when used in an anti-tank role ought to be a directed shaped charge, not an everywhere charge. Explosives like that only work if they are properly placed and directed. If they are facing the wrong way, they'll do nothing to a tank.

    Really today there's not very much infantry-expedient AT explosives anyhow. Tank armor is just far too heavy for anything easily infantry-portable to be carried. For something that can tackle the side armor of an MBT, you need one of these which weighs 45kg (almost 100 pounds):


    And it has to be setup rather precisely. Too close, and the explosively formed penetrator won't properly form. Too far, and not enough penetration will occur.

    So make infantry glue C4 to the rear of an MBT, and two bricks seem reasonable to kill the thing. I'll suspend disbelief enough for that. But certainly just allowing infantry to lazily toss C4 anywhere (even on the ground next to a tank) was pretty ridiculous.
    • Up x 1
  11. Hatesphere

    I always love an appeal to realism, but whens the last tike you went to an army surplus and picked up a shield belt MK1? I get the whole dont let the C4 blast kill a tank when its on the ground and the damage sphere clips your tank . but we dont need something as czrzy as an elongated animation to place the C4 on the hind quarter.
  12. Metalsheep

    I don't even really drive tanks and I think that C4 no longer killing full HP tanks is one of the best nerf/buffs to ever happen to this game. I am super pumped for that change.

    Now Tanks might actually be able to roll up into a brawl and be supportive, instead of hiding in the back and shelling for fear of everyone and their mother trying to C4 them.

    To me, personally, it never made sense for C4 to destroy Tanks. Or even heavily damage them. C4 is a High Explosive, not a Shaped Charge. The Reactive Armor on a Tank would just laugh off explosives like C4.
    • Up x 2
  13. EliteEskimo

    With how the game has been going with all the vehicle nerfs the past 2 years this is like a 180 degree turn, to say Higby had an epiphany would be an understatement.:eek:

    As a Dedicated Tanker

    1. I'd prefer to have front armor buffed 30% side armor and top armor buffed 20% instead of a overall health increase. C4 I wouldn't mind blowing up in two sticks provided it blew up on the rear of the MBT like in the first 20 seconds of the NC promotional video. However having C4 do 50% of a tanks damage per stick if placed on the rear wouldn't be asking for too much either.

    I also think infantry AV should universally be limited to 300 meters since not being able to fight back against what is killing you is frustrating and having suffering from it constantly I wouldn't wish the same fate upon infantry. 200 meter limitation is overkill.
    • Up x 4
  14. Hatesphere

    a reasonable response, sometimes i hate you sometimes i love you :p a nerf like this needs a proper trade off like still OHK on the back plate, or whats the point of C4 at the moment other then a slot filler, since it would be worse then a grenade.... i completely agree with infantry AV limited to 300m ( other then pure dumb fire), although I would love to see maxes rendered at 400 and their AV pushed to that range.
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  15. Iridar51

    How is it any different for tanks? You can A) scare him away with pea shooter rocket launcher and likely die in the process or B) team up with a second AV source and destroy his gay farming machine.
    Why? There's is literally nothing that makes tanks harder to get than C4. You get C4 from terminal, you get tank from the terminal. Both of them cost resources which never run out and replenish automatically over time. Tanks are just as cheap as C4.

    Never said it was a surprise. Simply more OP bull ****.
    And by good for the game you mean good for YOUR playstyle?
    What we know is that these changes are subject to change, so don't act like this is a sealed deal.
    • Up x 4
  16. uhlan

    Tanking is already far too easy and nerfing the infantry so much will completely reduce the minimal threat level they possess now.

    Seriously, any tanker that gets caught out by C4 in this game regularly is either drunk, blind or has a really crappy connection.

    Most of the victims are the turds that sit in one spot like a great big semi-mobile artillery pillbox... under a bridge... or something equally ridiculous.

    Making the tanks tanky is ok, but don't take the poor bloody infantry's few tools away.

    I just think Higby went a little far here.
  17. EliteEskimo

    I've tried to look at both sides of the story and give a reasonable point of view. What I can't figure out is how Higby has gone from the king of nerfing vehicles while not playing them, to suddenly want to give tanks major buffs. It honestly doesn't make sense. Although it's not too far fetched as Higby has left a proposed a few things that doesn't make sense. Such as forgetting to include Lancers in the range nerf since they are a major problem of render abuse, and suggesting infantry AV is reduced to a 200 meter effective range which is overallkill and something that the extreme vast majority of tankers have not asked for. Too my knowledge most Tankers including myself have been asking for 300 meter render distance for awhile, not 200. I'll be interested to see what Higby decides to do.

    For some reason I feel like he is not going back of the C4 change though, they tried this once before on the test server then removed it when the LA's made a riot about it. Unless he has short term memory about that sceanarioI think they are just going to go through with it. I guess we'll have to see.
    • Up x 3
  18. Foxirus

    This changes nothing for me. I have always and will always use a heavy to destroy a tank. Increasing the required C4 doesn't matter either because often times my Decimator IS my trigger.
  19. Freedom Fries

    Wow,all of the people crying for infantry.

    Sure,you can't solo a tank with c4 anymore. But guess what?You can still do your ******** bunny hop dance of rocket suicide and **** and scare the tank away all by yourself. They still have to try to hit you with their damn AP cannon.

    This is just a case of "but I don't want to lose!Vehicles should be expensive and weak!"

    It'll be fine.
  20. Mauzeraut

    This won't just really hurt the LA class. It's going to be a broadside nerf to a LOT of playstyles.

    -ESF nerf. Hornets will require multiple more passes to kill a tank, even from the rear. Rarely see hornets and since they don't instagib it's not really necessary. Perhaps remove the wire-guidance "feature" to retain viability?
    -LIB Tankbuster nerf. Single pass won't kill the tank without extended attack from the belly gun. Might be necessary, "Sneaky Libs" were still a bit strong on the one-hit-gib bit.
    -Sunderer Battle Bus nerf. Any of the MBTs will survive extended attack from furies/basils. AP versions in 1/2 occupancy might be able to destroy the bus before it destroys them, which seems odd given the 1 player versus 3 thing.
    -Flash nerf. Tank will have to be grievously damaged for the flash to have any effect, rather than +/- 50%. Pretty much renders it infantry-only, even in duo tactics.
    -HA nerf. Reduces the lethality of HA AV weapons in general. Decimator goes from being an irritant to a non-factor. Ground lockons go from being a non-factor to why bother.
    -Harasser nerf. Reduces ambush lethality considerably. From what I've read, this is intended, bringing the name of the vehicle closer to the truth, "harasser" vice "run-up-behind-and-lolvulcan-armored-vehicles"
    -Newb nerf. Stock secondaries on tanks go from bad to untouchable.

    Some other playstyles get indirectly buffed.
    -Skyguard buff. Now there's a reason to pull a skyguard rather than a harasser with a walker bolted on (the walker will still out-damage the skyguard. lol)
    -Prowler buff. Obviously affects all tanks, but this affects the prowler even more than the other two MBTs because the longer an engagement is, the more DPS matters, and the prowler will have the most of it by a huge margin. Lockdown will be combat-viable rather than just with sniping and ambushing.

    What I don't get is, why go through all that crap reducing AOE damage from HEAT/HE some months ago only to buff tanks to orbital new levels later, at the same time double-nerfing infantry's only real methods of dealing with armor? Madness.
    • Up x 1