Higby Asks: if there is a hole in a weapon lineup, better to modify an existing weapon, changing it

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Regpuppy, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. Taemien

    MAX weapons. Why does there need to be 3 AI weapons that are functionally the same. Can't we have a High DPS short range weapon, decent DPS medium range, and low DPS long range for all three factions?

    At least with the NC MAXes, the AV weapons are great. Falcons are great AV short-medium range, and Ravens work well for medium-long range. If our AI weapons were the same way, it would be great.

    I think most of our other weapons have good uses in a variety of ranges. Though one change I'd like to see is maybe to the EM1. Increase its ADS accuracy to be better than the Gauss SAW. Increase its damage to 200, but decrease its RPM to 425-450. Giving us a reliable long range but low DPS (literally the lowest DPS LMG) weapon.

    Not sure about the VS and TR, but pistols could see a little revamp. There used to be a difference between the Rebel and Magshot... but thats been diminished with the revolvers: Underboss and Commissioner.

    A change I would do here is lower the firerate of the revolvers by a bit. Allow tertiary fire to be used to pull the hammer back. This gives the next shot no or very very little cone of fire. This would simulate the double action of these pistols. And allow the semi-auto pistols of the factions to have more DPS.
    • Up x 4
  2. Epic High Five

    Honestly I think the NC can safely be left out of this discussion. I don't feel like there's any gaps at all in any of our weapon classes, with the exception of maybe a high ROF LMG. Thing is though, I don't think we should get one, so I don't consider that a gap. We start getting more 143/750+ guns and the TR/VS get more 200 damage ones and the NC/TR get more crazy accurate mobility guns with quick reloads and then all the factions are the same, not good! Anyway, the NC HA has access to the Cyclone and (if you hate FREEDOM, the Blitz :D )

    Think about it, every NC weapon class to:
    1) a bullet hose/CQC specialist (7F, Anchor, GR-22)
    2) a slow but heavy hitting gun (SAW, Reaper, X11)
    3) a moderately quick but accurate gun (Mercenary, Carnage, EM1)
    4) a low ROF, high dmg long range specialist (Gauss Rifle S, Razor, SAW)
    5) A quick reload gun with good mobility (GD-22S, Mercenary, Gauss Rifle)
    6) a highly customizable platform that doesn't really lack anything (Gauss Rifle S, SAW S, Carnage, Compact S in 3x burst)
    7) arguably the best buckshot shotguns in the game (Jackhammer, Mattocks)

    VS lack greatly with 2, 4, 6, and are oversaturated with 3
    TR lack greatly with 2, 4, 5, and are oversaturated with 1 and 3

    And then ON TOP OF THAT, we have the best SMG (Cyclone) and the coolest sounding battle rifle (that's the important part, right?). Also our no sway quick bolt BASR has the best name because you can build puns around the word sass. Also, the Rebel is the best high damage sidearm (15m for maximum damage, that's incredible!), the Mag Shot is the best overall, and the Desperado is just an unbelievably lethal gun. Phoenix is freaking great now too since the reload buff.

    That said, I think this choice should be made on a case by case basis. TR need a high damage carbine? Adjust an existing one, as the AMC can fill this role and lose some of its huge overlap with the Jaguar.
    TR need a quick reload, low damage per mag AR? New gun. The TAR, TRV, SABR, and T1/s/b all have very defined niches already
    VS need a highly customizable AR that isn't a straight up bad gun when stock? Adjust existing one. Equinox could be reworked much easier than a new gun could be made.

    Hahahaha, oh man the VS weapon lineup really needs a cosmetics overhaul and the LMGs are the worst.
    • Up x 6
  3. NinjaTurtle

    Whilst you are at it can you update the current models to actually look unique and different. As it is they are all copy and pasted and look horrible.

    The picture EliteEskimo posted highlights the dire situation
  4. ChipMHazard

    Financially it's probably a better idea to add a new weapon. From the players viewpoint it's better to modify existing weapons, that no one really uses, to fill a missing role. Gameplay wise it's pointless to oversaturate by adding in even more weapons.
    • Up x 1
  5. Regpuppy

    fair enough
  6. Hiding in VR

    I would like to see a little logic applied to attachments. I kind of feel that if something has access to forward grip or laser sight, then it should have access to the advanced versions as well. Whether or not a particular weapons gets 2x optics seems extremely random, as does the type of 4x. Is there any reason why this should not be available for everything?

    If you do decide to revamp existing guns then you have to refund the certs. Weapon choice is possibly THE most individual of choices we make in this game, and the subtlest of tweaks can change a weapon's entire feel.

    For the TR HAs, I would like to see some more choices for those that want some accuracy.
    • Up x 1
  7. eldarfalcongravtank

    they need to rebalance all the S variants of the carbines and assault rifles across all factions, because the only reason to use them were underbarrel grenade launchers which were heavily nerfed in one of the latest patches. right now, S variants are not desirable in my view

    also, i'd like to see more sidearm balance across the factions. the revolvers are too competitive with their high-damage model. and the only faction that comes close to their damage model is NC. TR/VS could need some more diversity for their pistols (high-damage/slowfiring and low-damage/fast-firing). also, rebalance the TR inquisitor and VS cerberus as they seem very pointless right now. finally, give VS a burstfire pistol as well. all the VS are using the revolvers because their pistols suck
  8. Tatwi

    If a weapon sucks or is pretty much identical to something else, by all means change it. Otherwise, make a new weapon to fit the desired roll. That makes sense and is pretty obvious to me.

    Let's use the Striker as an example. It's pretty much the same thing as the Annihilator, only worse due to the time it takes to lock and the likelihood that most of the missiles won't actually make it to the target. You may as well just use the Annihilator, which is exactly what people are doing. So, go ahead, change the Striker to something else.

    My Striker suggestion.

    Mode 1:
    • Dumbfire while in Hip Fire only.
    • Fires all 5 rockets at once in a very high arc with a short range. The missiles spread like a MIRV just passed the top of the arc.
    • Rockets cause fire damage for 3 seconds.
    • The arc and targeted area can be seen, much like the Rocket Launcher from late Star Wars Galaxies.
    Mode 2:
    • Zoomed only.
    • Rockets cause fire damage 6 seconds.
    • Each rocket renews the "on fire" thing in vehicles that it hits.
    • Functions exactly the same as it does right now for lock-on, tracking, etc.
    That would make it certainly more unique than what it is now and it the fire damage aspect, with its 5 lower damage rockets, gives it just a bit more situational functionality. Even if you only land one rocket, maybe you landed it JUST after the vehicle user already used his fire suppression and that lead to a catastrophic set events for him. The ability to hipfire in an arc would be a counter to the NC's ability to also shoot around corners with their ES rocket launcher. Might not be amazingly useful, but it's pretty cool and would be demoralizing and disorienting to be on the receiving end of (much like the NC MAX rockets) I see this version of the Striker being more of a team support tool.
  9. iPlague

    I've been told back in the day Rhino could go full auto accurately like the Ursa in some sense. Though I don't see it.
    TR LMGs have the most horizontal shake which makes long range accuracy a problem. If we were to compare the Rhino and the Bull you see these are practically identical. One could be remade into a 525 RPM 143/167, sort of like a Corvus LMG. One could debate the smaller damage due to it being an LMG with a larger Mag.

    So the current only options for the TR HA in terms of accuracy are the TMG and the AMR-66. And well, the TMG-50 like the Flare'n Gauss Saw S. These weapons aren't super accurate but rather effective in the mid range.
  10. ttttz

    It's better to create a new weapon because:
    • What's similar to one person may prove quite different in the hands of a veteran with that weapon, or someone who uses an aspect of a weapon strongly in a play-style.
    • It's cost effective to just re-use the same art as is done with many weapons.
    • There will be more revenue for SOE.
    • No complicated refunds will be necessary.
    A better example of two very similar weapons is the NS PDW and the new MKV Suppressed SMGs. There are no counterparts to 2000 or 1900 DPS CQC weapons in the Infiltrator line up to combat Heavy shields or high DPS AR/Carbines (not necessarily SMGs) and the MKV missed the chance to fill it.

    I'd like to add that creating class specific weapons with lower cost is better than cross-class weapons as it allows class specific balance.
  11. Gundem

    I simply can not comprehend the changes that came over time. For the longest time, people acted like the NC were the absolute worst faction, blah blah blah insert HARDMODEFACTION garbage. But then, just a few of the NC weapons were tweaked and suddenly everyone and their grandmother is all like "OMG, NC WEPONZ SU GUUUUD!!!".

    I would attribute that to all the 4th factioners who left the VS after the ZOE nerf, all went to NC after seeing a few iconic weapons get buffed(Like the Reaper DMR). Then, after playing around for a little while(Because who uses the DMR at all times?), they realized, "Wow, like, all of this stuff is really great!".

    Forumside, right?
    • Up x 3
  12. FishMcCool

    Because people tend to attribute overpopulation-driven success to guns.
  13. MykeMichail

    LMG's need to be un-nerfed.

    They have excessive recoil compared to all other weapons.

    Close quarters oriented LMG's need their hipfire cone of fires reduced.

    Edit: I don't know why this was changed. Actually yes, I do. It was to make the Heavy Assault class weaker. The question is, why give the heavy assault class a personal shield if you're just going to make their weapons terrible to 'balance' them out with other classes?
    • Up x 1
  14. Kitakami

    Surely this question answers itself?

    Higby, try this.

    If you're developing a weapon that's mechnically a modified version of an existing weapon, modify an existing weapon. Developing a new integrally suppressed carbine? Modify an existing one.

    If you're developing a new weapon that's mechnically different and unique, like pretty much anything in the Resistance games, frex, then add a new weapon.
    • Up x 2
  15. Nayrx

    I would like to see something for HA that has better accuracy then an LMG like an assault rifle like the medic class can use.
    I think there is not much variety especially as TR you are picking between ROF for the same gun . I don't play the other factions so I cant comment on them.
  16. Ice

    I believe it is better to modify existing weapons. There are plenty of weapons per each type that they could stand to be more specialized. The stats on the weapons may say otherwise but as far as performance they can be considered negligible.

    People will always cry for refunds when anything changes. I say keep ignoring them in the name of balance and variety.
    • Up x 2
  17. Kitakami

    I half agreement, half disagree.

    They've made LIMGs behave more like LMGs, which is fine. But there isn't much use for LMG-like LMGs in PlanetSide 2.

    Frex, how are you supposed to suppress infinitely, fast respawning, death-defying soldiers? Hell, I often go on a banzai charge just to find out where the enemy are, so I can out-flank them after I respawn.

    The problem is, if you make LMGs behave like a Tommy Gun with a drum, then obviously players will use them like one and they become imbalanced because they're better than other close combat weaponry.

    It makes me think, "Well, why do we even have so many LMGs in the game?"
  18. Cirevam

    While I agree with this from a business standpoint, I disagree with the bolded entry. Weapons aren't going to sell as much if they're literally copies of existing weapons with a few numbers changed. After all...

    SOE has an art department. They should use them. Otherwise, why pay them? So they can make skull masks, skull bandanas, and put gold bits on existing armor? Or are we only going to see more continent art assets from here on out? (okay, that would be nice)
  19. JudgeDeath

    1. If there are pointless guns then change those.
    2. If there aint useless guns then add new guns.

    Not really a difficult question :D
    • Up x 2
  20. z1967

    I am ok with adding new weapons, but lets take a look at what we already have. Aside from that, weapons can fulfill the same role, but achieve the results in different ways. I have the most experience with TR carbines, so let's start there.

    The current carbine selection for the TR is rather bland. Even the Long range accuracy carbine is a cruddy CQC forced into ranges. Our short range carbine selection is too vast and is outperformed by other faction's weapons (Serpent, GD-7F). What I would like to do is this.
    -Dock about 52-102 ROF off of the T5 AMC and make it a 167 damage weapon. Recoil is fine but I would prefer less horizontal recoil and more vertical recoil. If nessecary, you can dock the mag size down to 35.
    -The Trac-5 is great where it is imo, it just needs a bit less horizontal to enhance it's ability at range.
    -The Jaguar is going to compete with the Lynx for CQC no matter how we look at it. I would recommend that the Jaguar achieves it's CQC damage by being insanely accurate in hipfire and having a moderate ROF (fine as is). Should be less than optimal but still viable to use past 40m
    -the Trac-5S, like all S weapons, is gonna need a revamp at some point to determine where you want the weapons to place on the chart of grand weapon life.
    -the Lynx should be the mother of all spray and pray with 845 ROF and 143 dmg. Poor accuracy keeps it out of the 30m+ effective range.

    I have no experience with the LMGs and ARs, but the SMGs could use a bit of a look at. Armistice is great but runs out of ammo far to quickly. You can barely get through one person with a single clip and maybe two if you use extended clip like I do. though not necessarily bad, it needs to have a faster reload if it is going to make up for this. Hailstorm is often regarded as a cruddy weapon especially compared to the Blitz and Sirius SMGs. Make them more similar in stats and function.

    That is all.