Here we go again... Libs

Libs need a complete redesign. Its a broken aircraft and needs rebuilding from the ground up. Refund certs, sc, and the like and yes the devs have the power to do so read the user agreement that you didn't read.

Discuss/rage below.

You have made no arguments and presented no evidence.
This thread can conclude quietly and no one can suffer either indignity or frustration.

TBH, the main problem comes from the pilot having a gun. Other than that I don't really see too many issues with the Lib that are fundamentally based on not related to weapon balance.

I know you're trying to get the Auraxium for your Prowler.


Get hard countered son.

Sure - the Striker got redesigned. The PPA got redesigned. I'm sure SOE can redesign *cough*nerf*cough* the Lib for you!

My evidence is implied brother been playing since beta.This has been going on since beta and most people have just given up on even debating it. Evidence I left open to be discussed.

Above is true. I believe the lib should be more of a Apache/Hind approach to aircraft. Imho never thought the idea of a gun that can fire straight down as a good idea for the meta.

True story and im damn close. Theres hard counter and then there's the ability to kill in a fraction of a second. The issue comes in where the lib can effectively engage all targets with little downside unless the other side is utilizing a massive amount of AA or the lib pilot is greedy. Libs are literally the hard counter for everything.

While yeah would I like it to be gone sure. Do i doubt SOE is gonna redesign the lib from the ground up, yes completely. It took them months to finish the valk. Its not just me though.

Would the lib be that broken if it was redesigned into something it should've been in the first place like a bomber? And the TB... You could design a new aircraft built around that weapon alone and I guarantee you people would play it. BR 1s enter this game and they get obliterated by what they cant fight at all.

Once again continue raging/discussing

Don't mess with my Gal Buster

So many contestants for todays over the top Hyperbole award

And no, Libs don't tend to ahard counter either AA nor ESF's if the users aren't hairbrained morons who let themselves get shot by dalton.

AA, just move FFS.

ESF's, hang back and just keep pelting them with nosegun and missiles if you got em, but don't give em a bloody shot obviosuly.

Libs are NOT hard to deal with.

I rarely use a lib, and usually only as a disposable Sky Gal spawn popper (or sometimes to go hunting other libs)

Only one raging here is you buddy. QQ moar.

Also, for the bloody record, Libs have already been nerfed multiple times. HEAVILY. Enough I already don't even bother with them. I'd rather just fly an ESF than worry about getting a gunner for an over-expenditure of nanites for return.

Just stahp.

1 Skyguard can keep a lib away.

2 Skyguards can kill a lib in 6 seconds.

3 Skyguards can kill a lib in under 3 seconds.

No redesign needed. Use the right tool for the job.

A vague "remove this because I don't like it and/or am unwilling to field 2 ESFs" is insufficient rationale to request a liberator redesign.

1. ... You can kill infantry in less than a fraction of a second, AKA 0 seconds, and half the classes can't do anything without getting withing 5m.
2. You realize that Lib that just tankbusted you is easily within your firing arc and that 2 APs will set it on fire? And that it takes ~2,000 certs to invest in the one clipping ability, and even that is if you hit all your shots in their back?
3. http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=vkph&weapon1=5215&weapon2=5224&weapon3=5217
Note that while Tank Buster has a measly 2vkph, the Dalton that will be boosted by TB still has less VKPH than a tank secondary, and that is the primary gun, as TB is pretty much a shotgun on a Lib.
4. http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=avgbr&weapon1=5215&weapon2=5224&weapon3=5217
Note the high average BR.

It'd be cool if you could use the belly gun to burst through the air, like the force from firing it propels you upward

Point 1: Libs dont hard counter air except other libs and gals and esfs that get close to it totally not a hard counter with the power to knock out the enemy in half a sec ;D. Also, maybe the pilots I know are just terrible but they all say the same thing don't solo a lib in your esf.

Why dont you just move your skyguard? The skyguard, compare speeds and unless you have a spawn room shield once again you're not gonna make it against a lib in a lib.

Point 2: Libs are not hard to deal with unless... they're actually attacking you.

Point 3: Still to be debated

Yeah, I know they have and that hasnt seemed to end the issue though. The issue is the design of the weapon platform and you dont need to be a great shot to hit a burster max. I see it done all the time.

Another problem comes in for newer players who have no idea how to stop the angry sky gods from killing them.

Continue, please debate, convince me that its not OP. I've been wrong on the forums before I'll admit when I see evidence because in all the time i've been playing I've never seen evidence of such. (Im not just talking about tanking either.) I would ask for a bit more respectful diatribe, but this is the internet and expect next to little.

I see UNMOVING burster maxes hit all the time. Amazing what strafing around while you shoot can do. That Dalton round needs to be a DIRECT hit. Sidestep 2 ft, which you can easily do WHILE THE ROUND IS IN THE AIR, and it completely misses you and does NOTHING.

Skyguards can do the same. Just move forward and back, add a turn, forward and back. It takes 3 seconds from shooting for the now slow as molasses dalton round to hit target. You can completely move your vehicle from where it was or where they expected it to be

I've solo'd a LOT of Libs in my ESF.

#1: Take Tomcats. You need them for reliable damage at range.
#2: Keep at range and just harass the piss outta them. Within 10 seconds they'll be forced, FORCED, to fall back to friendly air or AA or die.

Granted, I got very few kills, but I was quite effective in chasing solo Libs off of small fights all by myself.

And that's 1 v 2 with a smaller nanite investment. Get 2 of us? And they likely won't even be able to retreat.

1. Yeah, Its a tank not some poorly designed aircraft. Yet... All the classes can retaliate against tanks hell even esfs... C4 falls in top 5 of what kills tanks

2. Yes easily could've hit them if im looking that direction for something coming in at wat is 150+kph minimap is barely enough. What is the TTK on a deployed sunderer (most armored vehicle on the ground) for a TB run then parked above head with a dalton. Which is what most lib pilots do.

3. I've read the stats and stats don't always highlight the issue (cept with ppa that was ludicrous).

4.You realize you can essentially do that with every weapon that isn't a default standard weapon right? Try it. Try it on the lightnings main weapons. MBT main weapons. Hell do it for everything thats not default. The average BR in the NC that uses sticky grenades is 76. Average BR isn't evidence.

Continue, i dig the referencing though but already have read the data on oracle and not convinced still.

I've seen moving ones hit all the time.

Just move forward and back... You're talking at ceiling brother anyone can shoot anything from range its not hard.

Also, Yeah the tomcat thing, been trying that works on some libs but if he turns around you either run or die.

In hindsight, my suggested change would create problems in that area specifically. We used to only have the TB and the Vektor, one was god tier and the other was pretty much crap. Now we have the Spur, so removing noseguns now would mean we would actually be removing/moving someone's $7 investment somewhere instead of just some certs people spent. Also would have been much easier back in beta, when nothing was as solid as it is now on live.

But oh well, We kinda have to live with that now.

You could actually... like learn to fight Libs instead of just complaining about them. There's a bunch of videos on youtube.

Also, ammo capacity has been so nerfed there are next to no Lib crews in the air anymore, so getting killed by one is like getting killed by a ******* unicorn.

I fixed your argument so that it reflects your actual sentiment.

I'm not sure why you're just unhappy about Libs killing your tank. ESFs can do the same thing, and pretty quickly if they have hornets. Sounds like you just don't like air, which, I COMPLETELY understand. When I was running my Magrider I never worried about Libs really, but ESFs drove me crazy. Bad, stubborn ESFs that would make 10 passes if that was what it took to kill your tank (and usually that was the case), especially since I didn't like just staying to my team like a pleb. My advice is to do what I did, find a friend, and run a skyguard along side your tank. Mutually beneficial, works extremely well behind enemy lines, and you both bait a bunch of kills for each other which is awesome.