[Suggestion] Heavy Fix

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by MrWolf3, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. Chazt

    This has been pointed out and argued over a million times. The heavy assault is not op, his only job is killing people and being a meatshield, so of course his ability is going to reflect those things. What did you think you were supposed to beat the guy built for killing as a medic or an engineer? That is seriously his only purpose, if you want to kill things, go heavy. If you want to support your team, go anything else.

    Forgive me as I quote myself to properly explain this situation of what heavies cannot do.

    • Up x 3
  2. WarmasterRaptor

    Agree with all that.

    Also, guess what class will see a huge number of people shift to if the shield gets that ramp-up?

    The next one with a better hp pool. ;) I almost want it to happen now just to see the cries of nerf to the medic AoEs...
  3. VonStalin

    adding a charge up time would be bad, would take away all the fun.
    I suggest nerfing the straightness of the shield. By about 10% would be ok.
    • Up x 1
  4. Chazt

    Don't give in to the people asking for any sort of nerf. Anyone who plays heavy assault can tell you how long that shield last, like no time at all. Hell I even did the math on it. Keep in mind a heavy shield is 700 points when used at max power and this is also not taking into account the constant shield drain effect that happens while the skill is active.

    TLDR/Breaking it down:
    Weapon Name: T9-Carv/Orion
    Fire rate:750
    Damage per bullet: 143
    Bullets needed to destroy shield:5 (15 additional health/shield damage afterwords)
    Bullets fired per 0.5 seconds: 6
    Time needed to break shield: 0.415 seconds
    Time needed with headshots: 0.2075 seconds

    Weapon Name: NC6 Gauss Saw
    Fire Rate: 500
    Damage per bullet: 200
    Bullets needed to destroy shield: 4 (100 addition health/shield damage afterwords)
    Bullets fired per 0.5 seconds: 4
    Time needed to break shield: 0.5 seconds
    Time needed with headshots: 0.25 seconds
    • Up x 2
  5. MrWolf3

    Those numbers are definitely not realistic. I have never been in a fight where my over shields get dropped in less than a half second. you guys miss the point. The Heavy can be as meatsheidy as it wants. But you should get shot by one bullet be able to turn around have you shields dropped hit a button have another shield instantly and start unloading into someone.
    And Adrenaline Shield has room cleanup written all over it. Think about it, You enter a room, there are five enemies in said room, they all see you(let's assume they are not very good players), they all start shooting, you see them too, activating your maxed out adrenaline shield you start shooting every time you kill one you gain another 20%(or something like that don't know the exact number that should be close though) of you shields back. You are a self sustaining mass murdering maniac who gains the power he/she loses every time he/she kills an enemy. This of course all relying on the fact that these five people aren't very good at their job and that you have a high mag cap weapon.
  6. Chazt

    First off, those numbers are completely correct, do the math yourself. Anything else you get is due to lag, missing or hits not registering.

    So in the situation in which you are already far better than the people you are fighting you will perform better? Next you will tell me the sky is blue. Keep in mind that while adrenaline shield give you 20% of your ability back, that number still isn't high. 20% of your shield is 140 points, which is about one extra shot for most weapons. In the situation you described, those players must have been terrible or missed every single shot in order for such an event to occur. If I were to go by your logic than anything could be overpowered hell I could say the mana turret is op, I mean think about it; as long as people who don't know what they are doing rush at you, then you are a self shielded mass murdering maniac!
    • Up x 3
  7. DHT#

    Except I can use the same argument, literally the exact same argument, to justify buffing the other classes.

    LA can't repair. LA can't revive or heal. LA can't cloak or use radar. LA can't deploy things, drop mines, etc. The LA's only job is to kill while flanking, so why not give them a more accurate shots while they're flying?

    It's the same logic you're using. But that doesn't mean it's justified. The HA is certainly still the best option for clearing vehicles and larger groups of enemies even without the shield.
  8. Donaldson Jones

    Yeah you mean like the Vanguard?

    I don't see this happening to HA or The Vanguard.
  9. Chazt

    Why not give them more accurate shots indeed? If anything light assault does need buffs to make it a useful class in its role, but the problem you are missing here is balancing an abilities upsides with down. Example below;

    Heavy Assault shield:
    *700 point shield buffer capable of absorbing direct damage allowing for easier direct fire engagements
    *Move at 25% slower speed while active (stacks with ADS slow debuff)
    *Visual effect makes the heavy assault into a bright neon target
    *Shield drains constantly over time while active (roughly 1/15 of its health per second)
    *Shield has long cooldown (60 seconds to reach full power on a level 1 NMG or Adrenaline shield, 45 seconds for maxed NMG)

    Light Assault Jetpack:
    *Allows the Light Assault to flank and outmaneuver opponents and come at unexpected angles
    *Allows Light Assault to get into high vantage points, scale walls or other normally impossible to reach areas
    *Low cooldown (can be dramatically reduced by certing into it)

    *Little use in a 1v1 firefight outside of trying to outmaneuver opponents
    *Flying can make you an easier target if spotted
    *Hipfire accuracy reduced while flying and ads is disabled

    As you cans see by looking at this both of these of abilities are powerful, but in different ways. They are also balanced entirely differently to stop that power from getting out of hand, if the light assault didn't have reduced accuracy while flying, they would be capable of destroying someone in a nanosecond while flying over them, similarly if the heavy assault didn't have his bright neon lights and slow effect than the shield would be far too effective and impossible to notice.

    Similar to how an infiltrator is still the hands down best option at dealing with enemies at long range even without the cloak? Each class has their own role that they excel in, the heavy assaults job is simply killing things at close-medium range, the light assault has a similar role to be sure, but they rely on two entirely different tactics to get the job done. Heavies don't have the mobility of the light assault, in fact they lose mobility when their ability is active so they rely on regular firefights and covered positions where they can move up. The Light Assault on the other hand has a ton of mobility, but the same amount of durability as everyone else, because of this they do not excel nor have a disadvantage in a direct firefight, so they are best used to flank the enemy and attack them from unexpected angles where they can get the drop on them and bonus points if they turn their attention elsewhere to allow their team to move forward better.

    Also I would like to applaud you for using Light Assault as an example, because he is by far the only class I would even say needs buffs to compete better in the current situation, while I will say that they excel in urban combat scenarios such as biolabs, amp stations and some smaller bases, that role is niche enough that could use a little oomph.
  10. Posse

    They could remove them from the HA for all I care (in fact, I'd LOVE if they removed shotguns from the HA)
    • Up x 4
  11. MrNature72

    Yes, all the yes.

    They are murder-machines, and nothing less, or more, than that.
  12. lawn gnome

    i use the lasher, although there was a period where i ran with the nova / slug combo (and my KD was vastly improved), but i abandoned killing power for a better support weapon.
  13. Goretzu

    The problem is the statistics don't show the HA grossly (or even significantly) overperforming. By all means if you have the stats showing this then show them. :confused:

    They are more played, but only a bit more than if you averaged all the classes, %-wise (i.e. 17-20% vs 23% actually played).

    So they aren't seemingly overpowered statstically nor indeed overplayed particularly....... which leads me to wonder where all this nerf stuff is coming from.

    SOE was thinking about that, but people pointed out the major problem with doing that:

    - If the charge up time was short than the TTK ( a HA) then it would be a meaningless nerf as absolutely nothing would change.

    - If the charge up time was longer than the TTK (a HA) then basically this means the NMG and Ad Shield are just plain sub-par to the Resist Shield (which then becomes the ONLY shield worth using if none are then reactive shields)....... as it if far, far better when used as a proactive shield.

    So basically to add a wind-up/charge-up time SOE would need to redesign the NMG and Ad shield to function proactively as well as the Resist shield currently does.

    Which is likely why it has all gone quiet about it.
    • Up x 2
  14. Snoozzzer

    Looking through this thread again, a lot of the posts give me the impression that some players post more than they actually play. There's a lot of dodgy math, assumptions and what ifs going on that do not add up to what actually goes on in game
  15. MrWolf3

    where did the Vanguard come from? Vanguard doesn't regenerate hit points/ time the shield is up from killing enemies.
  16. MrWolf3

    I'm not concerned about the numbers. Not every player has a wire linked up to the server and/or extremely good aiming. People miss shots, there is COF bloom, recoil. The situation you note is absolute best case scenario. 20% is a fifth of your shields, if the enemies on the point are in plain sight you will(most likely) pop your shields and kill one before they notice you. In doing so you just gained your shield activation cost back, as I said before you will either have to be a very good player or the others very bad. if you are utilizing cover properly and your aiming isn't complete crap shouldn't be too hard to clear them off the point. What I am trying to say is no class should be able to clear 5 people off a point, unless said people are completely horrid at the game or have the worst frame/internet lag in history. either way this has strayed off point, the point of this post was to make so a heavy cannot survive a one on one ambush with an equally skilled player, who is say playing engineer, with the push of a button.
  17. Donaldson Jones

    It does if someone is repairing it or it turns it on next to repair sundy. It's annoying trying to kill a sundy and a van shows up to take the rockets for 6 seconds.
  18. Chazt

    And a heavy can't do that. What your situation entails is 5 people (or 4 if one is killed at the start) missing so many shots that they are incapable hitting a heavy assault 12 times (the amount it would take to kill a heavy assault with full shields assuming we are going with the standard 143 damage per shot) between the four of them. Four people all shooting at the same target can't get twelve shots on him? Even less if they get a headshot? I'm sorry if this sounds rude but you have to get real here. Even if he manages to kill another one for the 20% shield boost it would still only give him 140 shields from his ability back, and it still has an activation cost if it went down at any point in that fight resulting in him being able to take less than 1 additional bullet. Assuming that all four of those player were so bad they couldn't land 12 shots between the four of them, I could kill them all with a medic just as easily as a heavy assault.

    As for your last point I would like to point out that the reason I did the math in the first place to demonstrate that a heavy will normally not be able to survive being ambushed, because his shield reflects so poorly on ttk that it would barely matter if at all.
    • Up x 2
  19. ohknoh

    People who complain about the HA just aren't playing their class right. As a LA, if I get the jump on a HA then he's dead, even with the shield, unless he manages to sprint for cover or something. I don't try to kill HAs as an infiltrator unless I'm running sniper or smg. If I'm running stalker cloak with a hand gun, I only go for HAs that aren't paying attention, and that I can get a few easy headshots on before they pop their shields.

    Simplest fix? How about the HA shield won't activate if your primary shields are down. Or Maybe only half of it activates, something like that. You jump the HA, get their shields down, they pop 2ndary shield but it's only for half. Maybe get rid of the overshield, and just make all shields Resist shields. They grant 25% damage resistance or something, in addition to anything else. Maybe the main shield will reduce damage based on how much of it remains.

    My only complaint against HAs is the pointblank launcher. You catch a HA with his launcher out, burst him with a few shots, only for him to insta gib you from 5 yards away with a missile launcher. They shouldn't OHK infantry in cqc. HA already has enough survivability, they shouldn't get free kills on people who catch them off guard.
  20. lawn gnome

    as a dedicated HA, i will say right now RL primaries are stupid. not because they are OP, but because the idea is outright moronic. if you have ANY other weapon out switching to a RL is almost guaranteed to get you killed because the RL has such an incredibly long weapon switch time. second you get exactly ONE shot, because after that one shot you have to wait about 5 seconds to fire again. if targets are more than a few meters away the shot velocities on most RL type weapons are so slow that they should be easy to dodge. if targets are too close then you get yourself with splash damage. lastly most RL only get 4 or 5 shots (best case scenario 15 to 20 seconds to fire all of those few rounds).

    i pull out my RL for vehicles and MAXs. the ONLY time i will rocket infantry is if i already have my RL out and firing that rocket is the only reasonable chance for me to survive and i always recognize that as a waste of a rocket.

    you shouldn't resent RL primaries, you should pitty them for their incompetence. in most realistic situations they get ONE kill and then someone with half a brain cell or more, runs up and ends them while they are spending forever reloading.
    • Up x 1