[Suggestion] Heavy Fix

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by MrWolf3, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. MrWolf3

    Ok. I know everyone and their mother is going to yell at me for posting this so I'm going to post it anyway just cause' I'm a rebels like that, here is a very simple very easy solution to the heavy assault "op-ness". I just want to get it out there that heavy assault is my second most played character(second to engineer) and I think most of the community will back me on saying the heavy assault class is too powerful, and it is all in the shield. The fact that you can get shot, hit a button, and suddenly have a third health bar with only the cost of a small movement speed reduction is kinda' ridiculous. No that I'm done with that I'm done explaining the problem, time for the solution. A very simple, very easy solution. Just give the darn thing a small charge-up time something like half a half a second plus before the shield is completely active.
    • Up x 1
  2. Plunutsud pls

    They were going to give the shield a charge time, it was even in the patch notes a few months ago...

    Then, suddenly, nanites happened and the nerf was cancelled.
    • Up x 1
  3. MrWolf3

    Sigh...Somebody has to do something about those wild nanites.
    • Up x 1
  4. Plunutsud pls

    inb4 a bunch of HA players swarm this thread and say the shield is not a problem.
  5. RyanGUK

    HA player here, and I agree that the shield is a little OP. For a game that has such a short TTL (or however fast it takes to shoot somebody from alive to ded) when you're being shot by somebody, that shield literally saves your *** 99% of the time.
    • Up x 2
  6. Surmise

    VS heavy assaults are bit out of order, mostly because of AR-like Orion and SVA-88, those are hardest to take down if played right along with adrenaline shield, thats really much about HA problem.

    for example Orion HA 0.75 ADS speed and 750 RPM against TR medic default cycler AR 750 RPM without 0.75 ADS, both guns have same accuracy except that Orion has no bullet drop, guess who wins 1v1 encounter(take into account that medic can self heal around 20percent green HP in 1sec=1 143dmg bullet)?
    • Up x 1
  7. lawn gnome

    dedicated heavy here and i have always supported having a small charge up time to give people who perform a proper ambush the reward they deserve. of course i usually just use my shield for kicking in doors.
    • Up x 1
  8. rocko95

    But the problem is if I play heavy to clear off a point, I then can't effectively hold the point. I don't know when the next enemy going to be coming is, so I am basically guaranteed to lose to an equally skilled heavy assault who will be able to activate his shield before the fight, while I'm stuck with no shield. As a primarily medic player for the past couple of months, heavy shield is absolutely not a problem.
  9. lawn gnome

    even without the shield when you are defending the point you are at an advantage because you are ambushing anyone who comes through the door. they don't necessarily know where you are, but in most cases you will know exactly where they are and already be aiming at them. i see no major problem with limiting heavy shields to a more offensive capacity.
  10. SharkSpider

    To understand the potential implications of the nerf you need to understand why the shield makes the heavy good, and unfortunately the popular solution of adding a delay really displays a fundamental misunderstanding of why the shield is good. The heavy shield is useful because it gives the heavy a role against infantry that isn't limited to long ranged support, namely the ability to lock down the area within your immediate field of vision, popping shield whenever an enemy enters it. The heavy shield is not useful when you get jumped unless the person jumping you fails at it, because the TTK on close quarters weapons is under the combined total of ping, upper limits on human reaction speed, and server tick. The heavy shield (adrenaline and NMG at least) is not something you flick on before turning corners or entering potential hot zones, because the activation cost will eventually bring it down below a useful level.

    The prime benefit from pulling a heavy (other than that rocket launcher) is that you get access to this new playstyle, namely the ability to place yourself aggressively, using the shield to win engagements when you've correctly predicted firing angles. To get this, you accept a gun with a lower damage output and longer reload, making you less effective at the LA/Medic flanking type play where you try to get the drop on people. Unfortunately, this benefit goes to zero if you can't use your visual feedback from zoning areas to pop your shield. When you have to preflip the shield to win 1v1s (even in your front arc), you lose the ability to play defensively. For instance, a medic hiding behind cover with a HA overwatching is basically dead right now because the heavy can flip when the medic comes out. With a delay, the person in cover has the advantage because they can wait out the shield and attack with a higher RPM weapon with better accuracy afterwards. The only way the heavy can still win is if they get lucky or if they are willing to always advance so that they're always the ones rounding corners to engage (which is often suicidal).

    If they go with this change, heavy loses its position as the default infantry class, hands down. Preflipping is only really useful in fights you'd already have won, and the requirement to do so is a massive nerf to everything except the resist shield. Even a delay on resist will nerf it near uselessness, not because of your ability pool but because of the fact that you can't cover a firing lane without risking someone jumping up exactly where you expected them to come from and still winning because they pulled a TRV or a Serpent, for instance. My guess is that medics will be the new main infantry class.

    In the past, comments on these topics have suggested that a move away from HA as the baseline infantry is a good thing. They couldn't be more wrong. Reviveside is bad enough as is, but now we'll have to deal with a TR factional advantage in IVI due to higher clips and better RPM on their ARs (the TR medic makes the best replacement heavy as is) and less rocket launchers overall, which gives MAXes and vehicles freer reign on small fights. None of these things are good for the game.
    • Up x 5
  11. Moz

    Sorry SharkSpider I like your train of thought but that is simply not how SoE intend the heavy to be played. They want you to be using the shield as you breach or other simular situations, hence forcing you to "pre-plan" the use of the shield.

    At the moment it CAN be activated mid fight for a 100% win, and is a lot of the time.

    Dont get me wrong, I think the shield is fine now, and i play SMG Infil and get beasted 1v1 most times by HAs. But the whole point is that this game isnt balanced around those 1v1 situations and balance adjustments sould NEVER ....... EVER be based on a 1v1 situation.

    Now if the shield was allowing for a squad of HAs to beat another, more balanced squad comp I would say nerf it! But if you roll with just HAs your going to get steam rolled, this should tell everyone what they need to know about the balance of PS2....... which is bloody good!
    • Up x 1
  12. Posse

    On the other hand, our assault rifles for medics are so bad in comparison it's not even funny, the TAR or the Carnage outclass any AR the VS have by far, so yeah, if you're going to buff TR/NC LMGs, then buff my damn ARs, and the TR/NC LMGs at least compensate with higher damage per magazine, our ARs don't have that.

    (in fact, the Carnage is just the Orion made Assault Rifle but with a better hipfire and less ammo, guess what class I play when I'm on NC? :p)

    If that was the case, then Adrenaline Shield/NMG shouldn't exist at all. Besides, there are many things that are used in a way they're not intended to. For example, I don't think they intended for a Harrasser with a PPA to hold a tech plant from inside :p

    I wish more people would understand this.
    • Up x 4
  13. Moz

    @ Posse, unfortunatley it is the case, the exact quote was:

    We’re adding a ramp up time to the activation of all Heavy Assault shield abilities. The goal is to change the shield away from an instant-win button and more towards something that requires positioning and proper timing, which is our goal with all class abilities.

    From thread:


    So basically they are saying that you should be hitting your shield pre-engagement not after engagement has started because the ramp up would mean you die before your shield even gets up. This was confirmed on a twitter post that i cant seem to find at the moment for some reason....... Sorry about that. Im sure if you do a little search yourself you may find it though.

    The good news is i think they have (correctly) realised this nerf is 1. un-needed and 2. a little silly, so hopefully this will never reach the live servers. HOPEFULLY!
  14. Deadreach

    Being this is a MMOFPS, Where is the rest of your team/squad/platoon/etc? Look Rambo, If your take the point, thats great, if an enemy heavy does the same, why is it bad, Have backup, shields drop with damage, and more people = more damage.

    Heavies are, according to Nanite-Lore, AV specialists with LMGs for infantry,
  15. Posse

    Thing is, it wasn't a instawin button to begin with (something I think you agree with) and any of the 3 require positioning and proper timing, Shark explained that perfectly. The problem is that Adrenaline Shield and NMG penalize you for having them activated when you don't need them, which would make no sense with a ramp-up time, but well, no point in discussing this when we both agree that the nerf was unneeded :p
    • Up x 2
  16. Surmise

    Yeah thats true, you loose around 20percent of the shield instantly on activation, if you dont kill or get shot, you basicaly damage yourself. If they really need to nerf NMG or Adrenaline, i would say they need to reduce HP gained, lets say by 20percent or 25 and to make it more like 1450 hp with shield on or something like that preferably with less movement speed debuf.

    Ramp time is stupid because of the 0.3sec in future the game is located i.e. clientside it will just make shield more of annoyance to use than actual buff when needed.
    • Up x 1
  17. Moz

    Yes i agree entirely.

    I was simply stating that i dont think SoE see / saw it the same way in it current state and that now i think they have come to their senses.
  18. WarmasterRaptor

    How would the ramp up work?
    Time before activating?
    A ramp up from activation to maximum efficiency? (ala T7 Minigun)

    On all the shields?
    New shields?
    Reworks of the old ones?

    What downsides do they remove in compensation?
    What other advantages they'll add?
    New mechanics?

    Simply adding a ramp-up without thinking of how the shields actually works would totally break the way HA overshield works.

    A ramp up on Medics heals too? No way they should heal that fast during a fight! it's unfair.

    LA jump jets ramp up, no more I jump away from immediate danger, it's not fair.

    Infil, ramp up please, not fair to cloak that fast in front of people and then run to hide.

    Ramp up on engineers turrets! (oh the agony, I mean, truly)
  19. Snoozzzer

    Shield not a problem

    I like that there's a class with LMG's that are stronger but slower. Not so much how the lock ons work currently, but that's a thread derailment for another day

    /not exactly a heavy assault player
    • Up x 1
  20. Plunutsud pls

    HA shield defenders always leave out the inconvenient fact that HA also has access to low TTK weapons like SMGs and shotguns.
    • Up x 2