[Suggestion] Heat mechanic guns are OP!!!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by GImofoJoe, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Isokon

    So, how do you explain its better performance against the Orion?
  2. ATRA_Wampa-One

    If I'm going up against someone "good" in CQC I'll absolutely bring the Orion fully kitted out because it's the best LMG option that VS have. Lucky for me most people aren't actually "good" and so I can farm them endlessly with either my Battlegoose or my personal favorite which is the ex-mags Flare (love that thing). I can also use the ex-mags Flare for things like point holds because the ability to spam rounds for a long time before reloading is something that TR/NC don't ever think about because they have some of the best damage per magazine stats in the game where the VS are massively lacking in that area, not just with AR's and Carbines which is where it hurts the most but also with LMG's... and no having better reload speeds doesn't make up for that.

    Also, as someone that not only has the Battlegoose but is one of the top users of the Phaseshift I can tell you right now that HEAT guns are only really amazing for farming idiots (i.e. only 90% of the player base) where as if I'm actually going to be doing something like playing against good players or holding a point against superior numbers I'm bringing the Orion or Flare and leaving the Battlegoose at home.

    That being said if the HEAT mechanic was implemented on all VS infantry guns without the reduction of magazine size or unlimited ammo it would actually be a unique faction trait like the TR and NC have and the VS is currently lacking.

    And no, no bullet drop is literally useless on everything the VS has it on except for the Phaseshift.

    You have to get 1160 kills with the Orion and at least 5800 kills with LMG's before you can use the Betelgeuse so you're already well practiced with it along with practice at not sucking being an HA.
  3. Goretzu

    Q4 KPU means all those users should be "good", however nothing performs remotely as well as it does, absolutely nothing.

    That may be as intended, who knows, but if that is the case the NC and TR directive LMGs are nothing like as good, even the Anchor (the best NC LMG by far) doesn't come close to the Betelgeuse performance even in just Q4 stats.

    And as I said my in-game experience pretty much mirrors the stats.
  4. Goretzu

    Who knows, it may be one of those weapons that just works very well with that mechanic.

    But it is unlikely (not impossible, but highly, highly unlikely) that is it just "super-players" using it, compared to Q4 of any other LMG.

    People that complain about the Anchor for example are complaining about a much lower performance difference.
  5. Saool

    Ah I get that now. It's the top 1/4 of ranks?

    But I still think the point stands. The requirements for getting the Auraxium guns is doing a hell of a lot of training for them, in effect.
    • Up x 2
  6. Saool

    Defiantly not. I am a distinctly average player. But again, I had to chew through thousands of LMG kills to get it. So I would say you are going to be at least good with it from the moment you lay hands on it.
  7. Trebb

    I'm not going to debate whether or not it's OP, but the *fact* remains that the more people use things to kill people in this game, the more players AND DEVS take notice.

    And I'm not going to lie, during most of my skirmishes with Vanu, my death screen is probably filled with 80% HAs, and a lot of time I'm killed by at least 2 different Beetlejuice guns. It really is HeavyAssaultSide lately, and having an infinite ammo gun where you don't have to time reloads on a class that is arguably OP (and pulled way more often than the other classes) makes for shiatty gameplay.

    My recommendation would be to reduce the virtual Mag size by overheating faster, and/or getting rid of the .75ADS. No justification for keeping that ADS in compared to the other directive unlocks.
  8. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Most VS are HA because outside of the Pulsar C, VX6-7, and Terminus our AR's and carbines range from lackluster to garbage tier. Maybe instead of nerfing VS heavies even more than they already have they should actually look at how crappy our AR and Carbine selection is.
    • Up x 1
  9. Pat22

    Ey don't forget the Solstice VE3.
  10. Goretzu

    Yep, so whilst it doesn't factor out every possiblity, it does make it much more unlikely that it is just something weird going on (such as just really, really good players using it).

    I mean it is still possible, but when you compare it to the other Directive LMGs or the best performing LMGs in Q4 KPU it is way outperforming everything, much more so than arguably it should compared to the Orion, so my only guess is that the mechanic synergises very well with it.

    Of course this isn't absolutely in a 1 on 1 sense, because if it was rubbish 1 on 1 yet somehow a great farming weapon it might well still perform very well statstically.

    So my best guess is that it is performing well all-round (as the Orion more or less does) and perhaps is very nice for farming too, giving it such high performance relatively.
  11. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Why do you think I didn't include it?
  12. battlegoose

    Just as a note, the reason why Q4 KPU of the Orion doesn't match Q4 KPU of the Betelguese is because they're not the same distributions (significantly different averages and standard deviations).

    The distribution for the Orion contains everyone from the pros to the day 1 rookies. If you assume even just the top 50% of all VS players have the Betelgeuse (which is probably an over approximation), then the Q4 (top 25%) of the Orion distribution would correspond to the top half of the Betelgeuse users. So the Q4 (top 25%) of the Betelguese would really correspond to the top 12.5% of the Orion uses.

    The top 12.5% of Orion users would have MUCH higher stats compared to the top 25% of Orion users (since the Guassian aka "normal" distribution, is exponential in nature).

    Therefore the Q4 of the Betelgeuse can't be compared to the Q4 of the Orion because the have significantly different averages and standard deviations. The users with the Betelgeuse are likely to have higher than average stats because from the second you start using the Betelgeuse, you already have an idea of how the game works, you've certed out your heavy, and therefore can perform much higher than the average day one rookie.
    • Up x 2
  13. battlegoose

    All that said, the Betelgeuse, with enough skill, is really good. You can take on up to 5 guys in a short period with some good management.

    Kill the first 2 with the Betel, carrying it right up to the overheat, then pulling a Spiker or Commi/Underboss to take out the 3rd, switch back to the Betel (which would have already finished cooling down), and blast the last two.

    This of course assumes they're not all attacking you all at once and there is enough pause in between each to switch weapons and targets.
  14. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Since you're assuming only needing 20 rounds to kill someone with the Betelgeuse (since 2 kills with 40 rounds = 20), that's 2860 damage total per kill, so multiply that by 5 and you'd have to have a gun with 14300 damage per magazine to accomplish the same thing without reloading which would be the following:

    Gauss Saw

    So NC and TR have 4 LMG's each that can do that trick and VS has one... two if you count the weapon dance you described with the Betelgeuse.
  15. battlegoose

    I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying for the CQC weapons, you can "seem" like it's OP because the people using it have control and aren't freaking out when they get shot.

    I actually tried the Anchor in game and I did better with it than the Betelgeuse because I can easily headshot from 5m up to 40m without much effort. I can't do that with the Betelgeuse because it has too much spread and horizontal recoil. I can only consistently get headshots out to around 20m. After that I just aim for the chest.
  16. ATRA_Wampa-One


    Trades 23 ROF for assault rifle tier reload speeds and headshot accuracy out to 60m and beyond. That thing is just nuts.
  17. Xasapis

    That LMG has 40 bullets right now. I suppose it could work with 30. Anything else and it will be hilariously broken, like the AR and Carbine are.

    As long as you don't actually reach overheat. I don't know how many people are not aware by now, but heat weapons lock you into the reload circle and switching guns does not stop the circle as it resumes the second you revert to them.

    Personally I would be a lot happier if Betelgeuse was an Orion with 75 bullets. Which was the original implementation prior to the heat mechanism.
  18. Elrobochanco

    Wait wait wait, I only have the Eclipse so I'm not sure if this is different or just a UI error, but when you are swapped away (or in the underbarrel mode) the heat does not dissipate on it. If it does on the Betel that's definitely a nice step up by comparison.
  19. Xasapis

    It doesn't, it works exactly the same as the Eclipse. I assume he means that he swaps right before it overheats.
  20. Elrobochanco

    Even before overheat, it doesn't dissipate while the gun isn't out, on the eclipse. I can shoot 2 people, swap to pistol to finish the third, but when I swap back to carbine I still need to wait a few seconds before I can engage again.