[Suggestion] Heat mechanic guns are OP!!!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by GImofoJoe, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. nehylen

    For reference i have near 400 kills and 28%-ish accuracy right now with the Darkstar, while most of my regular auto weapons recently used hover between 28 and 30% accuracy.
    25 per clip is quite crippling. Why would you need lots of rounds? Simply because 698/143 doesn't allow for CQC much: all the higher dps weapons "cream" you as you say, and you don't even have a decent hipfiring option since it comes bundled with a compensator which doesn't seem to do much for Vrecoil (couldn't notice any difference with 25 rounds worth of Pulsar in VR), but most definitely screws your hipfire by 20%, as it should.

    That means you must do your best to shoot at ranges above 20m, knowing that the Pulsar base is NOT accurate (out of the starter guns, the Solstice is the only one i'd qualify as such), thus missing more. HAs are already a big pain in the neck for a medic in general, but with 25 rounds it's even more annoying.
    Also note that due to the average accuracy on the Pulsar VS1, the more accurate guns (all 600-577-550/167 tier guns, and 652/143 ones) quickly outdps it as range grows.
    Being stuck with average sucks...

    The Terminus, best VS AR by far, is actually a slightly more accurate gun with (and despite) 10% higher firing rate than the Pulsar/Darkstar. Basically "TR that got shafted" gained a Terminus (whose advantage over Cycler is SPA) with a 40 round clip and 30 more spares.

    Not having them, i don't know about how the carbine and the LMG fare yet, but neither should have that legendary VS super-accuracy which actually doesn't exist, since they come without a foregrip attached.
    As such any TR can experiment the fantastic Orion/Betelgeuse accuracy either by using his default CARV without a foregrip or rolling a VS HA and use the Orion without a foregrip.
  2. Shanther

    A lot of the top VS HA players are hyper agressive and the Betelgeuse supports that very well. There is nothing suspicious about it really. It is a decent sidegrade to the Orion and is worth using. The Godsaw and Butcher are not really worth using when compared to their default counterparts.
    • Up x 1
  3. TheKhopesh


    I was just going by my personal standards.
    If I'm not landing at least 1 in 3 rounds that hit the target as a headshot, I count it as a dismal failure on my part.

    When going by that standard and my personal accuracy for CQC and close quarters, 44 rounds from a 143-125 damage tier is plenty to drop 2-3 HA's (including chewing through their shields).
  4. Mxiter

    heat mechanics is okish on most weapons:
    Like all traits it bring drawbacks. (TR big mags comes with long reload and higher horizontal recoil/NC high damages comes with high vertical damage and average+ reload)

    Only betelgeuse drawbacks are meaningless:
    -5 bullets/30 = 1/6 less ammo for heat mechanics; it's OK an reward good trigger dicipline
    -6 bullets/50 = 1/8 less ammo for heat mechanic; you can still spam a lot, you won't feel the difference ulsess you fight 3-4 vs 11 where yours chance to win are already poor (without mentionning it's based on the best infantry weapon)

    On the other side, aside the carabines wich are fun to use, any TR/NC aurax weapons are downgrades from stock weapons because of terrible attachments choice:
    HVA on ARs while those weapons are more close-mid ranged weapons wich give them a terrible recoil.
    Extended mags on weapons that have already 100 bullet per mag at the cost of higher bloom.
    Shotgun attached on a shotgun.
    • Up x 2
  5. Blippy

    I think the NC auraxium shotgun with an underbarrel shotgun is hilarious.
    • Up x 2
  6. GImofoJoe

    The fact from the data collected from the link don't lie. Heat guns has far more superior kill per hour number than every other guns.....Less down time from no reloading combine with infinite ammo = more up time combat.

    Where's the dang nerf bat on this blatant crap. Either give NC and TR heat guns or remove this from VS and make them use finite ammo, reloading guns like everyone else.
    • Up x 1
  7. Flag

    You mean guns that in almost every situation has the least damage per mag, regardless of weapon class/type?
  8. pnkdth

    CARV and Orion are nearly identical stats-wise, except the CARV has a higher COF increase per shot which is why it is less accurate than the Orion, with or without a grip. The CARV require more firing discipline because of it, and the Butcher... Well, now you have a less accurate CARV with an extended magazine. Yay?

    I'm not saying the CARV is bad, I think it is a great weapon, but the Orion is one step above. I'm not exactly unfamiliar with VS weapons either as I have a BR88 VS character(with more knife kills than any vehicle). As been pointed out, though, the reason people mention the heat mechanic is probably more due to the Beetlegeuse than anything. Infinite ammo on a powerful LMG(well, more of an AR really) is very powerful in an experienced player's hands.

    The notion that you won't run out of ammo is laughable. When using the Orion I often end up resorting to my side arm(which is thankfully now not so bad due to the Spiker changes).

    The main reason though why the auraxium weapons for NC/TR leaves a bad taste in the mouth is that they're just bad. You work your **** off to get auraxium medals only to end up getting a weapon that's even more frustrating to use. From an NC standpoint I cannot see a single reason to get the GODSAW, for instance, is the default is better. That's the main issue, I think, TR/NC look at VS and see weapons you can make work indefinitely with good fire discipline while they get objectively worse weapons across the board.

    But like I wrote earlier, I do not want the VS heat nerfed. I want the TR/NC auraxium weapons to add something which is appropriate for their factions. Currently they just got existing weapons with weird attachments on them.
    • Up x 3
  9. FrozenCustard

    So the Carv turned into a bad CQC weapon and the Saw turned into who knows what. Really? Bad accuracy and HVA do not make an effective combo. It might not be that "heat mechanic guns are OP", but perhaps the NC/TR are lacking a mechanic to make it worth using.
    • Up x 2
  10. Pat22

    Let me explain why this might be. I never, ever use the Eclipse unless I know I'm definitely going to make use of that infinite ammo. For example: my platoon is preparing to drop on a Tech plant and hold the point. I know I'll be able to go jet pack up to the rafters and shoot down at silly NC and TR below me who never ever look up and rack up a ton of kills. Before I had the Eclipse, I would bring the Pulsar C with the ammo belt suit slot and it would achieve the same results.
    If I get caught before I reach that spot, I'm probably going to die because the Eclipse's DPMag is extremely unforgiving to anyone who isn't a perfect shot, but if I do reach it, I'm rewarded with a big streak of kills with both infinite ammo and grenade bandolier.
    So the gun isn't OP, it's smart users who know what they're getting themselves into and know how to take advantage of a trait and ( in the case of LAs ) the fact that everyone seems to obstinately refuse to look up and the guy in the rafters with the glowing purple unsuppressed gun wearing hardlight armor firing at will.

    As soon as we're done holding the point, I put the thing away because, as I've already stated, the thing is horrible in standard combat, it's a downgraded Solstice VE3. There's no reason to use it unless you want to either show off or try to make use of the underbarrel shotgun.
  11. Xasapis

    You need exactly 1160 kills for each of the 5 weapons you need for the auraxium medal. A very efficient killer will be faster, that is true, but eventually everyone will get those kills. Just like an efficient player will reach BR100 faster than the others, though everyone will reach the cap eventually.

    Playing this much does rub in some extra experience with the class, but it doesn't work miracles like some people would like to imply.

    KPU is a measure of usage, not skill. And yes, the VS have a stronger preference to the Betelgeuse, exactly like the VS have a stronger preference to the Orion, than any other LMG in their arsenal. Why is that surprising exactly?

    (For the record, I believe that some adjustments, aka nerfs, are needed on the Betelgeuse. Saying however that "heat guns are OP" is ludicrous, since the rest of them are pretty much trash status.)
    • Up x 2
  12. nehylen

    As far as i know, CARV and Orion are very similar on all stats in ADS. The only significant difference being the horizontal recoil which is between 0.2 and 0.225 for the Orion (avg: 0.2125) against a pure 0.21375 for the CARV. CoF increase per shot is the same stat-wise. The big differences are otherwise found in the hipfire CoF stats which are massively better on the Orion and more comparable to the MSW-R.

    I do admit it's nice having a set of weapons that is really set apart from the rest and desirable for that feature though, even if it's a trade-off; i entirely agree there's no point to the GODSAW at all.
    It's just that calling the Darkstar, and probably the VE3A "overpowered" seems really far-fetched (+ the recurrent inaccurate statements about VS accuracy). The only weapon where that mechanic truly shines, has we seem to agree, is definitely the Betelgeuse due to its larger clipsize and a RoF that is more competitive than 698/143 at the most common ranges of combat.
    This thread probably wouldn't exist if Betelgeuse's base was the Pulsar LSW (the "default LMG-wannabe"), possibly even on a SVA base.
  13. Saool

    Again, sorry to keep labouring the point, but this is a myth. You still find yourself reloading, just not as much. But the more people keep saying 'no reloading' the more people think it is true and take nonsense as fact.
    • Up x 1
  14. Xasapis

    With Darkstar and Eclipse you'll find yourself reloading in mid fight even more than with other more conventional weapons. One major downside of the heat weapons is that once they reach the max of the heat circle, they lock you into an inescapable reload circle. Bad weapons made worse by this mechanism.
    • Up x 1
  15. Goretzu

    Every time I come up against it I end up just thinking "WTF", it just seems to be great at everything, everywhere. :confused:
    • Up x 1
  16. Isokon

    That probably has more to do with the guys wielding the weapon than the weapon itself.
    • Up x 1
  17. Goretzu

    Maybe, but Q4 KPU kinda suggests not, and that rather that it is just a very, very good weapon.
    • Up x 2
  18. Isokon

    The thing is, the Betelgeuse is a stock Orion with a heat mechanic. You don't go against someone with the weapon and think "damn, that Q4 KPU is really hard to fight in a 1v1".
    • Up x 1
  19. Goretzu

    Q4 KPU vs Orion and Anchor (NCs top performing LMG).

    It just seems to be very, very good.
    • Up x 1
  20. Saool

    Isokon is correct. It is a stock Orion. Can't even pop on the forward grip or laser sight like an Orion. But the people using it have clocked up over 6000 kills with Vanu LMGs. That means they know exactly what they are doing. And even though I said earlier in this thread I have a very average accuracy (19%), I do know how this gun feels very very well. I have close to 5k kills between the Orion and the Betelgeuse. You don't get 5k kills with any gun without becoming very comfortable with it and how to use it in differing situations.

    So the population of players who have access to it are going to be good with it by default. The population of people with access to the Orion is every Vanu player, from great, long time players, right down to day one rookies. With the Anchor it is going to be somewhere in the middle. The graph shows exactly what I would expect it to show.

    - Is the heat mechanic OP? No, not at all.
    - Is it good if you know how to use it? Yes absolutely. My default gun is a Betelgeuse, not an Orion.
    - Did the TR and NC get the short end of the stick? Oh yes. Perhaps with the exception of the Fortuna.

    EDIT: so like most things you have two choices: 1. Call for the TR and NC auraxium weapons to get an equivalent side grade mechanic. 2. Call for the heat mechanic to be nerfed so no-one wins.

    Guess it's down to what sort of game you want this to be. Me? I've already said 1.

    - Make the NC guns stock weapons with massive bullet velocity (effectively hit scan) plus maybe bullets carrying on through people

    - Make the TR weapons stock weapons with belt fed ammo. Just one magazine but with hundreds and hundreds of bullets